Infiltration - Postgame

[HansSky]

Well, that was fun, being a wolf for the first time.


But, it made me a little wary. I didn't want to contact anyone at all, because I didn't know if I'd sound wolfish or not. The only people I talked to outside of the Patriot Alliance were: Gray, Indigo, and White.

Gray and Indigo were just asking where I went...what I did. I kind of freaked out a little, because I had no idea what to do. So I just went and pulled the, "No, YOU'RE the asshole" thing. When I talked to White, it was about lynching Gray, which I was very happy to do. If he were to be in the game much longer, we would have lost, I think.

Plus, I never kept much of an alliance with anybody before, so I was supposed to talk to people AND lie. Very hard for me. :-\

And when Chardish said the humans screwed youselves over, you really did. You gave out WAY too much information, which led to your death.

We're sneakers. Going to C3. If somebody else shows up, then you know one of us is a wolf. Great. UNLESS the Reds know where a GAS TERMINAL IS. Plus, we knew where Green and Indigo were going, so we cut them off and killed them. PLUS Tass' lynching.

5 kills in one round. THAT is what screwed you guys over. Also, we never would have been able to do it without blah, so he gets my player of the year vote.

o yea

+1 intuition

[Tasselfoot]

Guido, Chardish told me that about the guards after I wrote that. I didn't want to change anything about it though. Hence why I said I would be writing more now, after the fact.

So, I was DEAD ON RIGHT about Orange and Blue, but no one listens to the genius. Panda, thanks for getting me lynched. As I said in the other post, all you had to do was push me a little, because as you said, unimportant rooms aren't that important, and aren't a big deal for me to keep secret.

So, I read the wolves' notes that Guido posted, and they made me smile. You guys had absolutely no intel from me. Funny about that, huh. I told Whorli all my intel (she was looking at my spreadsheet in person), because she wasn't initially in the game. Then Olive was extremely inactive so Chardish removed whoever it was and asked her to replace Olive. By that point I had already been talking to her for over a day about strategy, and had mentioned numerous times as to my humanity. She joins, I look into her eyes and ask her if she is a wolf, she says no, I trust her 100%. I read her like a picture book. The only other person I told specifically about what I found was Alain, who told me he found a gas terminal in A1, so I told him about mine in A8. Blah was being extra anal about his locator room, for there was a dead Flypie there too. And, I already knew about that room too.

My plan, that I alluded to earlier, was to have 2 people use map terminals to locate 10 different rooms. Whorli was getting a stinger from A4, and eb didn't seem to be in the open idea-sharing and teamwork mode at that point, so I asked Blah to help with it. He told me after my death his plan to go to B8 (where I said I was going) and kill me. But, I had thought about that, and was still undecided as to whether I'd go to B8 or go to A3 (where Blah said he would be). Most likely, I was going to go to A3. No harm in us both using the same map terminal, and this way, if he lied to me, I could prove it easily.

Back to the information. The key here was that EVERYONE who was human was telling me what they found. That made it extremely easy to figure out who the wolves were. Again, eveyone else was too brickheaded to think about it logically. And I don't care that this was the first run of the game, thinking illogically is not something that should die because we're playing a new game. The 3 humans who voted for me (Cypher, Panda, Kefit), you really should have realized how poor the arguments were from Blue, Orange, and ESPECIALLY MAROON! Casting the final vote to lynch me when we had been working so hard as a team through the game. If huge flashing neon signs and loud whistles weren't going off, serious logical fallacies are abound. Kefit, you should really know by now that the revenge voting pattern is absolutely terrible for human victory, which was essentially what your vote for me was. Also, why did no one come to the conclusion that the wolves would be VERY hardpressed to start a bandwagon against someone, instead of jumping on another's.

Lastly, I must attack my beloved. It wouldn't be fair for me to berate tons of others without being an equal opportunity asshole. Hun, you should have saved me. Period. I know we talked briefly about this, but here is my full logic (no claiming that you have no logic!): You knew 100% that I was human, but never posted once after they started the lynch for me. You said you tried to talk to Cypher and someone else (Panda, I think) to change their votes, but you obviously negleted the obvious (no hard feelings, you're good at that). Also, why did you not login as me and post that I was changing my vote to no lynch? At least then it would have been 6-6 and a coinflip for my life, if you couldn't get one of the big three to switch. This whole thing was very unfortunate due to not only me being on a train, but my cellphone being dead. Had my phone been working, I could have told you what to do over the phone, and saved myself. Alas, thing did not work out so cleanly. No hard feelings love (I can never be mad/upset at you), but be wary, you shall incur the wrath of the 2 fingers of death tonight.

As always when I make long posts, I'm likely leaving out information. But, if I am, I'll add it later.

Editing in screenshot of the intel I had after 2 days. (Ugh, its not letting me upload into this forum. Fix this please LD.)

[HansSky]

Originally Posted by Tasselfoot

Also, why did you not login as me and post that I was changing my vote to no lynch? At least then it would have been 6-6 and a coinflip for my life, if you couldn't get one of the big three to switch.

Yes, of course. And then you both would have gotten kicked out!

[blahblah18]

As they say...
"its good to be the king"
ok going in reverse order, Tass that wouldn't have saved you since because I knew they were both map terminals I was going to go to one and have either hans or guido go to the other... so you were dying either way, and WE were getting 10 rooms... Guido's document isn't all the intel we had.. I ahd like 5 more rooms or so that I forgot to mention to him now and then...

The only thing I feel that needs fixing is alert mode, and the best way to fix it is to say that guards ignore Reds... except that can lead to some perfect incriminating evidence, so I'm not sure about it. A better way is to make the movement of the guards ALWAYS random.

You need a different class instead of warrior now... sneaker evades alert mode and kills guards, hacker detects false terminals, which IS important, we just never hacked any A) because we kept getting victory rooms and shit, and B) I knew everyone's class and how most peopel were hackers. So that's something to think on.

I had indigo's trust completely, and I didn't want to have to kill him, but he was extracting info from me, and he would've seen the destroyed superlocator so he had to die.

Flypie told me that she foudn otacon, so I knew I had to do major persuading to kill her immediately and to keep his presence silent. I did both of those, killed her, and took control of my little NPC, I was about to annoucne him anonymously on the forum, but the game ended.

You guys can't say the room you are currently in during decision phase... we just sit in gas rooms while you tell us where to kill you.

Tass, I understand how you'd be upset about being lynched, but honestly, looking back at it... It made no difference whatsoever in the long run, and I would've actually rather have lynched Red, cuz I knew you were dying next turn anyway.

Again, 64 rooms was perfect... If you make it smaller you have to absolutely positively get rid of the map terminal.

I'll post more as I think of it, but I feel that this was a good game for me for being the "bad guy" for the first time.

P.S I also have a ton of more strategies ready to use to finish off the last of you, only Guido and Hans know them now though

[stretchypanda]

Originally Posted by tasselfoot

So, I was DEAD ON RIGHT about Orange and Blue, but no one listens to the genius. Panda, thanks for getting me lynched. As I said in the other post, all you had to do was push me a little, because as you said, unimportant rooms aren't that important, and aren't a big deal for me to keep secret.

Your welcome.

You keep saying the logic behind lynching you was unfounded, when it certainly wasn't. You definitely played the role of stupid human this round.

1) I tell you the location of THE MOST IMPORTANT PIECE OF THE MISSION, and you can't tell me what's in two rooms. Okay, so we've been down this road, and the rooms were unimportant. However, this makes you look VERY suspicious. Oh, but you needed a little push? HELLO! I KNOW WHERE MGGHOST IS! IS THAT NOT ENOUGH OF A PUSH?

2) I tell you I know where Ghost is, hoping to get the code to open the door. When I won't tell you where it is, you threaten to use a locator on me. Add that to the fact that I know how you play this game, and what am I supposed to think? You acted like a wolf.

No, you weren't given the opportunity to defend yourself, but your girlfriend tried for you. Which brings me to this:

IT'S (as previously stated) JUST A GODDAMN GAME, DO NOT INSULT THE INTELLIGENCE OF YOUR GIRLFRIEND. ESPECIALLY in such a patronizing manner.

I cannot BELIEVE you put so much stock into this, as to declare anyone playing a complete idiot, and believe that you alone can save us all from the depths of our stupidity. Stop acting so superior. You seem to think the humans would have won this had you stayed alive. Not counting you, they had FOUR of us on the SECOND movement. The wolves had this one in the bag.

[Tasselfoot]

I never said they didn't. And, as Blah said, I was dead the next turn anyway. IT IS THE PRINCIPLE OF THE MATTER, NOT THE MATTER ITSELF.

Panda, you asked me about the rooms. I said they weren't important. You asked a 2nd time, I said it again, but let you make your own choices about finding out. Turns out 2 people went to C4 (one of the two rooms I was talking about) on movement 3. Funny. Regardless, had you said "Gray, I really need something back from you in return for that intel." I most likely would have, and looking back, I should have given up info earlier. My mistake with that.

I did not declare everyone an idiot. Blah played this brilliantly. Alain was on the right track, but was properly killed by Blah. I'm sure most people didn't play awfully, but also didn't stand out. I know as well as everyone else that there are things we'll learn from this game, and mistakes that were made. That is fine. I never once criticized the moves that were made that will be learned from. I am, and will continue to do so for as long as needed, talking about the LOGIC that people are using to make some of their decisions.

So Panda, you'd have me not voice my opinions about another player in the game? Just because of my relationship with Whorli doesn't change any facts whatsoever in her play. I would be extremely hypocritical if I went and attacked everyone and left her alone because of our intimacies. I am extremely blunt (as I'm sure y'all know), and I say what I feel.

To Hans: She knew I was human, everyone knows we are in regular contact, Blah knew I was on a train and couldn't defend myself, I could easily have asked her to post for me, or asked her to ask chardish to post for me. Just because I wasn't able to actually due it (due to dead phone), doesn't mean that that isn't exactly what I would have done had I been able to use said dead phone.

[Kilgamayan]

Given this new rise of information, I think we should instate a new rule that boyfriend/girlfriend pairs aren't allowed to play in the same game, since we have no idea what they could be doing IRL in oreder to gain some sort of advantage.

[Tasselfoot]

This is what I knew on day 2, who told me, etc. I had other notes, but this is the most interesting page.

I know Tass well enough to know that when he calls you an idiot here, he means it solely within the context of the game.

Yes, he's got a huge ego, but we've all got our character quirks

The spreadsheets you've all been waiting for.






Please excuse the notation on the last one, it's hard to understand and I'm not consistent.

[Kilgamayan]

Why did blah take a stinger? He would have no use for it.

[alainbryden]

Blah owned me. I was too distracted by the fact that he was blah, to realise that he, just as well as anyone, could have been playing me. I think the goal of the anonymity was to not have us distracted by who someone is, but I think it has the opposite effect, because I fooled myself into thinking that just because I found that maroon was blah, that it made maroon human. I didn't really think that, but it had that effect on my outlook.


Aside, the reason that the humans lost was this: All the humans agree'd in the beginning, based on the rules, that the best, and quickest way to win was an all out sharing of information. Once the rules changed, all our preparation and execution of this plan was a backfire. If the rules had been how they are from the beginnin, none of the careless sharing of information would have been done. We are all smarter than that. I strategy became flawed only when the rules of the game changed. My fault for voting for the mid-game change.

Congradulations blah.

[Tasselfoot]

Thanks Chardish.

I agree Alain. You and 4 others votes to change the rules midgame. I don't understand why ANY human would have voted to change the rules. Why on earth would someone voluntarily agree to give the opposite side more power?!?!?! Again, stupid. I said it earlier (although i think chardish deleted it) that giving the reds power in alert mode made the game fairly even. You all saw how alert mode affected the game. Giving them the anonymous killing as well was just plain out retarded. At least Alain admits this.

I'm not a fan at all of the anonymous system. That is why I went to 0 effort to hide who I am. That and I'm lazy and didn't want to go through all that effort to seem different. I'm me and fuck you if you can't handle that.

Alain, I was saddened by your dying, and immediately went to figure out who cut you down prematurely. Alas, your fate shortly thereafter became my own. It all works its way back to Blah. My hero, at least for the next 20 seconds or so. I would like to play this game from the red side, to see how much more I could manipulate all of you (That $1 is in the mail Evan).

Heading back to Philly. Back later to call all of you more names.

[GuidoHunter]

Originally Posted by Tasselfoot

I agree Alain. You and 4 others votes to change the rules midgame. I don't understand why ANY human would have voted to change the rules. Why on earth would someone voluntarily agree to give the opposite side more power?!?!?! Again, stupid. I said it earlier (although i think chardish deleted it) that giving the reds power in alert mode made the game fairly even. You all saw how alert mode affected the game. Giving them the anonymous killing as well was just plain out retarded. At least Alain admits this.

The changing of the rules was a necessity. There would have been NO game whatsoever had there not been changes. It turned out that there wasn't much of a game after the changes, but nobody realized that until three or four turns in. I know I would have voted to make it a game rather than a blowout had I been on the green side, too.

And I say you have it backward, Tass. Keep anonymous killing but get rid of power in Alert Mode. I know this takes away from the original intent of the game that you'd better have a damn good reason to kill someone, but what's to stop the humans from enacting the plan that y'all made at the beginning? The power in Alert Mode was to keep the humans from abusing it and not letting the wolves do anything. The only thing that could have been done at that point was take that away from the humans. Obviously, there was little foresight into the matter, but that could be balanced out much more than the anonymous killing.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[FOXHOUND-Magenta]

(still logged in as Magenta. I only posted once as eb during the whole game, because I'm too lazy to log in and out. I logged in as Magenta in Firefox and tried to log in as eb in IE, but it had me logged in as Magenta there, too. So I'm not sure how you guys did it, but apparently I'm not able to be logged in on 2 names at once. I really hate having these codenames. People figured each other out so fast, and it's a hassle switching accounts on the forums and on AIM (I refuse to download Trillian or some junk like that). Hence, I think we shouldn't bother with the anonymity thing in the future. It's too much extra work anyways!)

Dammit blah, I knew it!!! Early in the game I swear you said you were a sneaker and then last night you were like "no, I'm a hacker!" You just wanted Yellow to go to the gas terminal so you could kill him. Too bad I wasn't gonna tell him A1.

And yeah, nobody else has said it, but blah acts all offended when you don't tell him stuff. He acted like he was gonna cry or something if I didn't tell him things, so I briefly went over stuff. Speaking of telling things: there's nothing wrong with sharing information, as long as you don't share it completely. Tell what you found, or tell what room you went to, but never both. I never told people exactly what room what was unless I knew it was okay, like when I told Indigo to go to the superlocator (sorry man ). I was pretty pissed when Chardish ended it for inactivity as one of the reasons. I was very active, but I stopped posting a whole lot because the thread slowed down.

So you know, the plan was this: Brown found a gas terminal and a history terminal on floor F. He was going to gas the guard in F6, but I told him I had a better idea. I posted that somebody was going to F6 to kill the guard hoping the wolves would think me stupid and go to kill him, then I'd have a sneaker gas the room. Brown was a hacker, though, so I contacted Magenta because he had said/implied before that he was a sneaker. AFTER I tell him the plan he claims he's a hacker and I'm like...crap. So I ask who a sneaker is and he tells me Yellow, so I PM him and was arranging for him to kill a guard and a wolf. Of course, with blah knowing the plan he would've only gotten the guard, but whatever.

And yeah, I think I know why people voted for the change: THEY DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THEY WERE READING! I asked Chardish about the change to make sure I knew what it meant so that I'd be absolutely sure what I was voting on. I found it was a terrible thing for my team so I voted against it. I can't remember who it was that I talked to, but they voted for it and thought my strategy (ya know, report in and tell people if somebody's in your room so wolves can't do anything) would still work. When I explained what the rule change meant and that it ruined us, they said something like "Well damn, I didn't know that's what it meant!" Be sure before you vote from now on.

And I'll admit, I trusted blah too much, but I never trusted anybody. I even announced on the threads that I wouldn't trust anybody until I seered them, which brings me to another point. Way too many useless terminals and not enough seer terminals. I think we should reserve another thread for game balancing and keep this for postgame, but I just had to say it. I have some other ideas for balance and new stuff, but I'll make a thread/post it in a different thread already made later.

And I'm pretty sure Tass told me things, too. I didn't vote for him because I knew it was Tass. He pushes for info even in TWG, so I figured it was just Tass being Tass. If I had realized that changing my vote to no lynch would have made it a coin-flip situation, I would have. Sorry for not seeing that, Tass. I would have preferred to seer you. Oh, and I find it funny that the one person who kept saying that "lynchings should be just as important in this game as they are in TWG" got lynched.

This game would have been a lot more fun if it was more balanced, people posted more (not as much as me, but geez, I couldn't tell that anybody had died because NOBODY POSTED ANYMORE), and if there wasn't anonymity. And Chardish, I don't see how it's that much more work. In TWG you have to write a bigass story, but this one you don't. *shrug* What do I know, I'm just a player.

[evilbutterfly]

so I contacted Magenta

I meant Maroon, whoops XD

[Afrobean]

I'm dissappointed it ended early. I wanted to play it out, even if the humans would lose eventually anyway.

My stance in this game was pretty useless. I had little to no trust in anyone, and I wasn't part of any sort of alliances. I like to think that I helped in my own way (I found that generator, remember that?), but I also hurt us. That last alert that I caused, was because I'd forgotten to send in a move PM, because I didn't know we were in a movement phase. I suppose it doesn't matter, because eb got saw by a guard too, but I still feel bad for what I did.

I also believe the anonymity in the game was useless. Anyone who would use who the people really were as an advantage figured most of the people out quickly. The only person I found out was eb, but that's partly because of a few things he mentioned about his class and things, and the way he carried himself over AIM. Also, he mentioned that he only used AIM, so he was only going to be on one account at once, and I noticed that "evilbutterfly87" and "FOXHND-Magenta" weren't ever on at the same time. I suggest that alternate accounts be removed for the next game. I was really looking forward to reds being able to take over accounts, but it seems like Chardish got rid of that idea, and that was the only part of alternate accounts that I liked.

PS I was playing this game like there were no reds. I think that others should play in a similar way to the way I did. Not giving out all your info of course, but don't go looking for people to lynch. Most of the time, you'll be wrong, and you'll just be helping the reds to win. The only time I think we should lynch ANYONE is if there's undeniable proof against them (like they were seer'd from a secure seer terminal, or if someone is found in a room dead and a history terminal reveals that a certain person was in there when the other person died). Again, I'm not retarded; I'm not suggesting that we post all our info right away, all I'm saying is that you guys are playing this like a TWG too much- you should play it like an RPG.

[Kilgamayan]

Eee bee, I was logged in on both accounts as follows:

- Logged onto Kilgamayan on http://www.flashflashrevolution.com

- Logged onto FOXHOUND-Brown on http://flashflashrevolution.com

In TWG you have to write a bigass story, but this one you don't. *shrug* What do I know, I'm just a player.

Wrong. The story would have come into effect had you found NPCs and told the others about their presence.

This requires way more being organized. Every day I have to update 2 spreadsheets 15 times, calculate guard movements, see if alert mode was triggered, write 15 unique PMs and send them out, etc. In TWG you simply calculate votes and say who gets lynched.

I'm dissappointed it ended early. I wanted to play it out, even if the humans would lose eventually anyway.

Teal, your obscene inactivity was one of the things that made me think that people were losing interest. Phase M3 you didn't send in move orders and consequently got a guard show up in your room cause you didn't move. If you want there to be discussion, you HAVE to keep the thread very active, even if you don't have a whole lot of information to share. Do what Alain does - post the obvious, which anyone can read, and wait for comment.

I was really looking forward to reds being able to take over accounts, but it seems like Chardish got rid of that idea, and that was the only part of alternate accounts that I liked.

No one - Red or Green - found the terminal that let them do that. Another cool part about anonymity is sudden inexplicable disappearances with no death post. With no anonymity this would work on the forums, but not on AIM.

Person A: "Where you headed?"
Person B: "I don't want to talk about the game right now."
Person A: "You're dead, aren't you?"

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by Chardish

Teal, your obscene inactivity was one of the things that made me think that people were losing interest. Phase M3 you didn't send in move orders and consequently got a guard show up in your room cause you didn't move. If you want there to be discussion, you HAVE to keep the thread very active, even if you don't have a whole lot of information to share.

I wasn't that innactive. My not sending in a PM doesn't have anything to do with not posting a lot. I kept up on the thread at all times that I could (meaning multiple thread checks every day). I didn't send a PM that day because I didn't realize it was the next movement phase. I must've overlooked where you announced that it was the next phase, because I thought we were still on decision phase.

Do what Alain does - post the obvious, which anyone can read, and wait for comment.

Even if I wanted to do that, it would be out of character. I'm not the type to do that, so doing so may be seen as wolfish. I know that no one knew who I was (outside of those who guessed who I was), but I had established certain behavior as Teal, and if I started acting differently, it would be very suspicious.

EDIT: to counter the AIM thing, why not just announce when people have died. You don't have to say anything about how or why, but you could just post as the Colonel and say "We just lost the vital signs of FOXHOUND Mauve. Keep an eye out to see if you can find out what happened," or something similar to that.