Paper i have to write. "not trying to be a trend whore" - Page 2

-Izzy- · 04-4-2006, 10:56 PM

I just dont think its right that i should have to be religously confirmed into beleifes that i dont share. Why would they want me in the first place?

Hr2 · 04-4-2006, 10:57 PM

My grandmother is very religious. It would break her heart if she knew I were an atheist. I like my grandmother, she is very nice. Now, here are my two choices...

1) I tell her that I don't believe any of that stupid church stuff.
2) I go to church on Christmas and Easter and say grace over dinner when she is around and she is nice to me.

Possible outcomes of each choice are these

1...
a) She gets twice as religious and does everything she can to make me relgious.
b) She gets depressed, because she feels she has lost her grandson.
c) She doesn't talk to me again.

Hmm, doesn't sound very good. I know she wouldn't let me "get away" with having my own beliefs, now lets see what happens when I choose choice 2...

a) Have interesting conversations when she is at my house (she likes good music :P)
b) Feel awkward while pretending to believe in god.
c) Get candy and gifts when she comes to my house.
d) See her happy that I'm still a good Catholic.

It's a whole pros and cons game. I'm not believing it one bit, but my relgion does not forbid me to lie about my true beliefs. I would rather my grandmother die happy, knowing her grandchildren were going to heaven, than her thinking I was a lost cause, a foolish child.

I dunno about you, but it seems quite cruel to punish your parents (or for me my grandmother) that way.

Tass is right, go along with it for now. What matters is what is in your head and what is in other people's heads. Sure it is awkward, we know that. But sometimes you have to lie in life to get ahead, this might be one of those times for you. So far we have 3/3 people who have tried this method saying it works.

If you feel you are violating some sort of sacred moral standard, then it sounds like you've got some religion in you. You have to do what is best for you and the people around you even if you don't like it.

edit: I agree, that they SHOULD not force you to be confirmed, but from what you say, it looks like you don't have a choice and should just make the best of it instead of suffering through every moment of it.

-Izzy- · 04-4-2006, 11:09 PM

But really my parents arnt that weak of heart.
they love me and i would expect them to have tolerance over my beleifs like everyones said i should be to others. And how you guys also said that they were being the same i was. But why should i have to get over it and the religious people dont have to? I personally think my parents would be so self centered as to not understand me. But they are still angry and maybe its just a phase but they need to stop.

GuidoHunter · 04-4-2006, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Izzy-

I just dont think its right that i should have to be religously confirmed into beleifes that i dont share. Why would they want me in the first place?

It doesn't matter if it's right or not. Justice is not something you are entitled to so long as you're under your parents' roof. They can do anything that you deem unfair simply because they can.

Also: you do not have to change your beliefs. In fact, you can't. You believe what you believe. Just because you go through some ceremony doesn't mean you now believe something different. Just do it and you'll be no different than you are now.

They want you to be Jewish because they obviously think it's a good thing (or else they wouldn't believe in it themselves). You should appreciate that they have good intentions in mind for you, even if they are forcing you to write a paper.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

GuidoHunter · 04-4-2006, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Izzy-

But really my parents arnt that weak of heart.
they love me and i would expect them to have tolerance over my beleifs like everyones said i should be to others. And how you guys also said that they were being the same i was. But why should i have to get over it and the religious people dont have to? I personally think my parents would be so self centered as to not understand me. But they are still angry and maybe its just a phase but they need to stop.

Nonononono. These are very different circumstances and debates.

In the other thread, you can't say that someone's right or wrong because issues of faith are neither right nor wrong.

Your parents get to tell you what to DO because they are your parents. They don't have to accept your beliefs (just as you do not have to accept my or stretchy's beliefs), but they can't tell you you're wrong (just as you can't tell me or stretchy that we're wrong) AND they can tell you to do whatever they want you to do (because they're your parents).

This thread has nothing to do with the other thread. Nothing. Also, I don't recall anyone ever suggesting that your parents were being the same as you were. I think you're reading some things into your own thread that aren't actually there or that you haven't brought up.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

**stretchypanda** · 04-4-2006, 11:15 PM

Izzy, first of all, if your parents love you, knowing you are an atheist breaks (or will break, if they don't know that) their hearts. It's that simple. This is part of why they will keep making you go to services -- in hopes of changing your mind. They may do it, they may not, but they are going to try and hope and pray for the rest of their lives that you will one day find God, because they believe you need him.

Now, as far as your confirmation goes, I don't know if there's a certain age a Jewish person needs to be confirmed, but if it's like Christian baptism, maybe you should just try to get your parents to see that you're not ready to be confirmed. In most Christian churches, baptism happens only when the baptized decides it's time. You may never be ready for a confirmation, but at least you could.. I don't know, buy some time?

**Tasselfoot** · 04-4-2006, 11:16 PM

Izzy... Guido and I are talking to you under the case of "Izzy's parents are unwilling to consider the possibility of NOT being confirmed and writing the paper."

Obviously the best thing for you to do is to talk to them and request that they let you not be confirmed and not write the paper, if that is what you want.

We are assuming that you have already done this and they said "NO!", which is why you are coming to us for advice.

And don't forget that... you posted here in CT on FFR because you wanted OUR advice. The least you could do is consider what we're telling you, since you have asked for our advice.

jewpinthethird · 04-4-2006, 11:20 PM

Izzy. Dont write the paper if you dont want to. If your parents keep on riding your ass about it, just say "You see, this is why Hitler gassed you mother f*ckers."

-Izzy- · 04-4-2006, 11:21 PM

You are putting things into their heads that i really doubt. They arnt very religious at all. They know im atheist and they dont hate me. And just because they are my parents and they can make me do whatever i want doesnt explain why they want me to be confirmed.

Once i am confirmed they put your picture on the wall so people can know you are confirmed. I really really dont want people viewing me as something im not.

-Izzy- · 04-4-2006, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jewpinthethird

Izzy. Dont write the paper if you dont want to. If your parents keep on riding your ass about it, just say "You see, this is why Hitler gassed you mother f*ckers."

Lol, i was never planning on writing the paper. But im not going to mean to my parents. Although thats funny its still very very mean. I dont find the holocaust bad because they killed jews but because they just killed so many people. Its like ripping your arm off and eating it.

**stretchypanda** · 04-4-2006, 11:25 PM

Izzy, if they didn't care, they wouldn't make you do it. Clearly they care.

GuidoHunter · 04-4-2006, 11:26 PM

Okay, I admit, I did assume that about your parents, but hey, maybe they still think Judaism is a good idea and want you to have something that they don't? I don't think we're in any position to answer the why question.

As for the second part: Well, again, tough beans. They're your parents; they can make it so that people view you as something you're not.

The only way to get out of this is to talk to them and try to convince them that this process will have no positive effects. If they don't budge, you're stuck.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

**Tasselfoot** · 04-4-2006, 11:26 PM

and... we've now gotten into the holocaust NOT being bad.

*sigh* Jewp... haven't you learned yet that sarcasm is completely lost on Izzy?

This has gone on long enough. Locked. If you haven't learned anything from what we've said so far Izzy, you aren't going to.

PS - I am expressly saying this... IF YOU MAKE ANOTHER THREAD IN RESPONSE TO THIS, YOU ARE GETTING A 7 DAY BAN.

04-4-2006, 10:56 PM	#21
-Izzy- Banned Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,629	Re: Paper i have to write. "not trying to be a trend whore" I just dont think its right that i should have to be religously confirmed into beleifes that i dont share. Why would they want me in the first place?

04-4-2006, 10:57 PM	#22
Hr2 FFR Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Age: 35 Posts: 2,350	Re: Paper i have to write. "not trying to be a trend whore" My grandmother is very religious. It would break her heart if she knew I were an atheist. I like my grandmother, she is very nice. Now, here are my two choices... 1) I tell her that I don't believe any of that stupid church stuff. 2) I go to church on Christmas and Easter and say grace over dinner when she is around and she is nice to me. Possible outcomes of each choice are these 1... a) She gets twice as religious and does everything she can to make me relgious. b) She gets depressed, because she feels she has lost her grandson. c) She doesn't talk to me again. Hmm, doesn't sound very good. I know she wouldn't let me "get away" with having my own beliefs, now lets see what happens when I choose choice 2... a) Have interesting conversations when she is at my house (she likes good music :P) b) Feel awkward while pretending to believe in god. c) Get candy and gifts when she comes to my house. d) See her happy that I'm still a good Catholic. It's a whole pros and cons game. I'm not believing it one bit, but my relgion does not forbid me to lie about my true beliefs. I would rather my grandmother die happy, knowing her grandchildren were going to heaven, than her thinking I was a lost cause, a foolish child. I dunno about you, but it seems quite cruel to punish your parents (or for me my grandmother) that way. Tass is right, go along with it for now. What matters is what is in your head and what is in other people's heads. Sure it is awkward, we know that. But sometimes you have to lie in life to get ahead, this might be one of those times for you. So far we have 3/3 people who have tried this method saying it works. If you feel you are violating some sort of sacred moral standard, then it sounds like you've got some religion in you. You have to do what is best for you and the people around you even if you don't like it. edit: I agree, that they SHOULD not force you to be confirmed, but from what you say, it looks like you don't have a choice and should just make the best of it instead of suffering through every moment of it. __________________ Last edited by Hr2; 04-4-2006 at 11:00 PM..

04-4-2006, 11:09 PM	#23
-Izzy- Banned Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,629	Re: Paper i have to write. "not trying to be a trend whore" But really my parents arnt that weak of heart. they love me and i would expect them to have tolerance over my beleifs like everyones said i should be to others. And how you guys also said that they were being the same i was. But why should i have to get over it and the religious people dont have to? I personally think my parents would be so self centered as to not understand me. But they are still angry and maybe its just a phase but they need to stop.

04-4-2006, 11:15 PM	#26
stretchypanda shock me shock me Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Texas Age: 39 Posts: 4,123	Re: Paper i have to write. "not trying to be a trend whore" Izzy, first of all, if your parents love you, knowing you are an atheist breaks (or will break, if they don't know that) their hearts. It's that simple. This is part of why they will keep making you go to services -- in hopes of changing your mind. They may do it, they may not, but they are going to try and hope and pray for the rest of their lives that you will one day find God, because they believe you need him. Now, as far as your confirmation goes, I don't know if there's a certain age a Jewish person needs to be confirmed, but if it's like Christian baptism, maybe you should just try to get your parents to see that you're not ready to be confirmed. In most Christian churches, baptism happens only when the baptized decides it's time. You may never be ready for a confirmation, but at least you could.. I don't know, buy some time?

04-4-2006, 11:16 PM	#27
Tasselfoot Retired BOSS Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Widget Heaven Age: 40 Posts: 25,184	Re: Paper i have to write. "not trying to be a trend whore" Izzy... Guido and I are talking to you under the case of "Izzy's parents are unwilling to consider the possibility of NOT being confirmed and writing the paper." Obviously the best thing for you to do is to talk to them and request that they let you not be confirmed and not write the paper, if that is what you want. We are assuming that you have already done this and they said "NO!", which is why you are coming to us for advice. And don't forget that... you posted here in CT on FFR because you wanted OUR advice. The least you could do is consider what we're telling you, since you have asked for our advice. __________________ RIP

04-4-2006, 11:20 PM	#28
jewpinthethird (The Fat's Sabobah) Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Palm Springs, California Posts: 11,711	Re: Paper i have to write. "not trying to be a trend whore" Izzy. Dont write the paper if you dont want to. If your parents keep on riding your ass about it, just say "You see, this is why Hitler gassed you mother f*ckers."

04-4-2006, 11:21 PM	#29
-Izzy- Banned Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,629	Re: Paper i have to write. "not trying to be a trend whore" You are putting things into their heads that i really doubt. They arnt very religious at all. They know im atheist and they dont hate me. And just because they are my parents and they can make me do whatever i want doesnt explain why they want me to be confirmed. Once i am confirmed they put your picture on the wall so people can know you are confirmed. I really really dont want people viewing me as something im not.

04-4-2006, 11:25 PM	#31
stretchypanda shock me shock me Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Texas Age: 39 Posts: 4,123	Re: Paper i have to write. "not trying to be a trend whore" Izzy, if they didn't care, they wouldn't make you do it. Clearly they care.

04-4-2006, 11:26 PM	#33
Tasselfoot Retired BOSS Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Widget Heaven Age: 40 Posts: 25,184	Re: Paper i have to write. "not trying to be a trend whore" and... we've now gotten into the holocaust NOT being bad. sigh Jewp... haven't you learned yet that sarcasm is completely lost on Izzy? This has gone on long enough. Locked. If you haven't learned anything from what we've said so far Izzy, you aren't going to. PS - I am expressly saying this... IF YOU MAKE ANOTHER THREAD IN RESPONSE TO THIS, YOU ARE GETTING A 7 DAY BAN. __________________ RIP

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