Does your gender or sex define you?

[fido123]

I've cooled down and come back so:

Originally Posted by Kilroy_x

And again, for the 10 millionth time, because you're discussing the transgender phenomenon and the only way to understand certain core aspects of it (THOSE UNDER DISCUSSION ITT) is either directly, or through the intermediary of people who experience it directly.

I think a lot of people experience a lot of common issues TG people feel so strongly about that it makes them go TG. As a male I'm expected by a lot of my friends to have a good time sitting in a bar drinking a few beers and watching UFC. I honestly end up leaving early every time cause beer makes me pretty nauseous, I hate bars, and I can really only watch one fight, two tops of UFC. If I were drinking alcohol, I'd much rather it be a cooler; if I were at a place to drink, it be more of a club/show; I hate watching any kind of sport. Apparently these qualities in this society don't make me a "true man" and I often feel like I have to sometimes fake "man" like qualities as my preferences are frowned upon. Now for certain things like how a TG person feels in their body, that would be something I would have to go off of what somebody who's experienced it has told me. To me, the only thing that really defines sex in a meaningful way is gender roles, but perhaps I haven't lived life in the "wrong body".

People can have real and valid opinions on this subject without being trans-gendered. There are certain core aspects as you said where people have no idea what that might feel like but it doesn't void any opinions we may have. People should take into consideration TG people probably have thought a lot longer, and harder about these issues but we can't just allow one opinion to override all others. What if a TG person is in reality just a complete ****ing moron and doesn't know how to use proper rational? What if his/her opinion totally contradicts what every other TG person's opinion is? Should we just put our opinions aside and listen? We shouldn't, we should approach everything with an open mind and take other people's experiences into consideration but we shouldn't just have our opinions nullified.

[Rubin0]

I knew it! I knew not all men liked sitting in a bar and watching sports and even more importantly that they feel pressured that they should like it. Proof!

[fido123]

I honestly think most guys do that because of gender roles. Playing a sport is one thing but watching it is ridiculous from what I can see. Yeah some people will like it as that applies to pretty much everything in life but I know too many people who are too fat to run but watch/talk about sports 24/7. Maybe I just don't get it though but this is another topic altogether lol.

[Arch0wl]

I think the fat people who are really into sports develop that interest as a form of identity gymnastics. If you're fat, the people next to you on the Attractiveness Tier are (1) skinny yet ugly guys, and you're not skinny (2) other fat people. In your mind, you can convince yourself that you're "better" than those people by being really into sports; you're fat, sure, but by being associated with jocks you're at least not as bad as those other guys who don't care about sports at all.

[carlin]

Evening up the poll to 36,36; my answer would be no. Somewhere in my life I started becoming increasingly effeminate. Although I started out as a perfectly straight guy, I started growing out my hair. This may seem like not a big deal, but from what others tell me, I look very girlish with chest length hair. This somehow doesn't affect my relationship with my girlfriend and if I were a girl it still wouldn't matter because my girlfriend is okay with girls as well as guys. So no, my sex doesn't define me and I wouldn't have any identity issues.

[8 Hour Whore]

I'm a fat kid that played sports~
=]]

[ffraxis]

eh, once you get over the fact that almost all of the populations in many countries (especially north america and some european countries) are brainwashed with the notation of fear of being persecuted for personal thoughts and desires and that this is a simple myth which coincidentally is the driving force for persecution of others with the idea that this will render you untouchable or at least drive away unnecessary attention.

best thing to do is continue living your life, see if the changes give you some advantages or disadvantages, measure out the pros vs cons and finally see if you want to continue your life as is or change it. nothing like experience to give you a firm point of view on something like this.

[KyuuketsukiX.x]

If I woke up as a guy, I guess I would have a slight problem with it at first. But as time goes on I would get used to it. There must be a reason why most of my friends are guys. I'm currently not in a relationship right now, but I have a feeling that the only people that would find it awkward are my friends. I would be a gay male, and as they often make homosexual jokes/comments with/to each other... I would probably be the awkward one, just sitting there, listening in and having to deal with "no homo" jokes probably around the clock. But as some people, I enjoy being alone most of my time and wouldn't have any personal problem with my identity. But if I were a male and turned into a female, I probably would've had 40x more worries. Jus saying.

[fido123]

I think a lot of people aren't taking into consideration not only gender-expectation in society, but the way girls treat other girls is very different than the way guys treat other guys. Girls are put under a lot more pressure to look pretty, take care of themselves, while still being "independent and strong". I know girls who don't dress the way their comfortable dressing cause their friends get all preachy with them (and they're not dressing slutty, more tomboish).

[Rubin0]

I also think that a lot of guys (who were turned into females) would have a big problem with the way that men would treat them. It's a very different level of respect and if you expect to be treated as an equal then honestly I think a lot of people be extremely stressed out. Regardless if your hormones changed or not, if you have an expectation for how people should treat you that can't be changed by chemicals.

[Cavernio]

Kilroy, you're putting things into my words that weren't there. You've also missed the most important point of my most recent set of posts. I don't know why you assume that because one person thinks they would be alright being an opposite sex, means that they immediately think you, and everyone else, should be able to experience things the same way. Just because I like black olives, doesn't mean you like them, and it would be pretty dumb of me to expect you to too, especially if you've said specifically 'I hate black olives'. This topic's intent was more in line with 'do you like black olives' than anything else, and I very purposefully asked people to answer about themselves. Yes, its dumb of me to assume that no one's going to get hurt, but I ****ing hate it, absolutely hate it, when someone assumes that just because they feel one way about themselves, that everyone else must feel that way too. And the very fact that you see everyone who's said 'no' as either being TG or else sausage meat, meant that you assumed no one can say to themselves 'I'm me, you're you, we're different', even though me and you essentially already did that weeks ago in this thread, talking about our respective bodies. (Well a lot of people can't, even when it comes down to food, but you gotta give people a chance.)

"People base their conduct on the opinions they have about other people."

That's why this thread is about each individual person, about themselves.

And yet you're one of the only people in this thread who's had an opinion about someone else, and that's why you're getting backlash. No one's said in this thread or elsewhere in CT, said that you're TG and you're wrong, all TG are wrong, you should be able to cope or deal or you plain just shouldn't have a problem at all, you're not discriminated against, you should be able to find whatever job you want, etc. The fact that you're a minority really seems a side-note to why people are pissed at you (although not why you're pissed at them). To say that people have no experience with gender incongruety unless you're 100% TG is a huge assumption on your part. You've insulted people who may feel androgynous, who are asexual, depressed people who don't give a shit about gender (among other things), who are gay and who have a hard time of it and would like to be straight, and probably a few others who have reasons I haven't thought about/haven't been posted. I mean, if you were a gay person, and this was about sexuality, you'd be shitting on bisexuals, who often have a hard time fitting into a gay community or a straight community, someone like Fido. And your remark would be akin to saying 'I'm actually gay, and I'm insulted that someone can think they'd be gay and straight at the same time.' Just because I've never fallen for a woman, doesn't mean that I think you either have to be gay or straight, and anything inbetween is just you lying to yourself. And there's still like 50% of people who obviously feel like you do in that they're strongly one gender!

As to talking about genders and me saying 'they don't matter', its more of an ideal that I have more than anything. The only way something like that would really work out would be if there were only 1 sex. But it's hard enough to fight societal systems, much less biological ones.

Haven't you ever thought that, societally, the more people who feel less like they have specific genders, the more people will probably be accepting of TG people, because the former seems like its representative of respecting individuals feelings, as opposed to people having to live up to traditional expectations?

As to what I mean when I say 'identity', I really don't know what you're getting at. Its what you see yourself as I suppose, I haven't thought about it much. I can't think of a synonym to the word.