Secret and Purchased

[hi19hi19]

Secret and Purchased basically do the same thing- reward more credits with more files. That's good.
Problem is, they do it in two conflicting ways (amass credits vs spend credits)
It's frequently confusing to beginners when they purchase a song then suddenly one of their favorite Secret files disappears.

Proposed solution: fold the Secret genre into Purchased.
Why not the other way around?
First of all, FFR needs more credit sinks, this is a perfect way.
Second of all, it will create more cheap Purchased files. People like unlocking things; creating lots of 50 and 100 price Purchased files gives people lots of goodies to grab as they improve.
Finally, it gives people more choice to unlock things in the order they want. Choice is good.

How do we price these charts? Simple, simply take the difference in credits it would take to unlock them as a Secret chart, and make that their Purchased price.

Credit Requirement of Secret Songs - New Purchased Price
-------------------------------------------------------
1. {Lazy Summer Days} (50) - 50
2. Ding Dong Song [Light] (100) - 50
3. Fett's Vette (150) - 50
4. La Luna Caida (200) - 50
5. Ingenuity (250) - 50
6. FFR Evolution (300) - 50
7. Water Like Pudding (350) - 50
8. Synesthetic (400) - 50
9. Green Twilight (450) - 50
10. Betrayal of Fate (500) - 50
11. Abtrusity (600) - 100
12. Visions (700) - 100
13. Noir Remixed (800) - 100
14. Force Of Light (900) - 100
15. End Night (1,000) - 100
16. Yukitsukiyashou (1,200) - 200
17. For FFR (1,500) - 300
18. Csikos Post (1,700) - 200
19. MAX Forever (1,800) - 100
20. 2008 (2,008) - 2008 (this is an exception, for legacy's sake)
21. Radiant (2,200) - 400
22. Hyper Pressure (2,500) - 300
23. Guitar Sounds (2,800) - 300
24. Gradeus (3,000) - 200
25. Song of the second moon (3,200) - 200
26. Destination Unknown (3,500) - 300
27. Summer -Speedy Mix- (4,000) - 500
28. Voodoo People (4,500) - 500
29. Camel (4,800) - 300
30. Shihen (5,000) - 200
31. Ark (5,500) - 500
32. Mute City Remix (6,000) - 500
33. Automata (6,500) - 500
34. Gaussian Blur 3 (7,000) - 500
35. Fast Asleep (7,500) - 500
36. Shining Sky (8,000) - 500
37. Kick Your A (9,000) - 1000
38. Lawn Wake IV (10,000) - 1000
39. Strangeprogram (12,000) - 2000
40. Flesvelka (13,000) - 1000
41. Rottel-da-station (15,000) - 2000
42. Grocery Escape Plan (18,000) - 3000
43. World Tour 2004 (20,040) - 2004 (another exception)
44. Arrogant Cobbler (22,000) - 4000
45. honki sentai majirenjaa -MAJI eurobeat version- (23,000) - 1000
46. K8107 (25,000) - 2000
47. Puzzle (28,000) - 3000
48. Midnight Dragon (30,000) - 2000
49. Cinnamon Roll (32,000) - 2000
50. Bogey at your Six (33,000) - 1000
51. Blue Noah (35,000) - 2000
52. Blue Army (40,000) - 5000
53. Blue Rose (45,000) - 5000
54. Rain [YMCK] (48,000) - 3000
55. Pants (50,000) - 2000
56. Jamais Deux (55,000) - 5000
57. Szerencsétlen (60,000) - 5000
58. Chik Habit (65,000) - 5000
59. Final Fantasy Last Battle Festival (70,000) - 5000
60. Hellhounds On My Trail (80,000) - 10000
61. Red Wings Over Baron (90,000) - 10000
62. He's A Radical Rat (100,000) - 10000
63. Staring at my Spaceship (120,000) - 20000
64. ==Planet KARMA== (150,000) - 30000

Besides the two exceptions, this will make no difference in how many songs people have- if they have the credits for the songs in Secret, they will have enough credits to buy them all in the new system as well.


Thoughts?

[rushyrulz]

Disagree.

[Trogdor!!!!]

I like this, but it's probably because I don't have Spaceship and Karma. Well... I also like it because some of the later secret songs make me want to facepalm and this is a way to know what you're getting.

[hi19hi19]

Originally Posted by rushyrulz

Disagree.

Care to... elaborate?
I thought I made some pretty good points as to why this change would make sense.
The only reason I could think for disagreeing at the moment is a sense of nostalgia for the Secret system, but I'd love to know of other issues you see.

[rayword45]

Agreed. It's a hell of a lot less confusing this way.

Of course, I feel having both Secret and Purchased has its own special novelty.

[ninjaKIWI]

No, I disagree. If this were implemented you could just skip every song to get Planet Karma, where with the Secret system you have to wade through all of the songs.

EDIT: I would be okay with this if you were only able to purchase the songs in the original order that they were in.

[hi19hi19]

Originally Posted by ninjaKIWI

No, I disagree. If this were implemented you could just skip every song to get Planet Karma, where with the Secret system you have to wade through all of the songs.

EDIT: I would be okay with this if you were only able to purchase the songs in the original order that they were in.

I see no problem with being able to buy Planet Karma (or any of the other high-Secret files) with your first 30000 credits. I mean, it is fcking 30k, not something beginners are just going to get in one day.
Isn't the point of this game to enjoy it? I don't like forcing people to "wade through" files or songs they don't like. Even the term "wade" makes it sound laborious, which is not good gameplay.

[wildfireskunk]

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

I don't like forcing people to "wade through" files or songs they don't like. Even the term "wade" makes it sound laborious, which is not good gameplay.

This. I would break kneecaps to unlock K8107 and Blue Army.

@rushy - If someone suggests ideas that most people would see as an 'improvement' to the current system, there's no reason not to change it. I agree with hi9 that unlocking those secret songs is SUCH a chore. I don't want to keep my credits, I want to spend them :< I'm sure lots of other n00bs who know nothing about the secret song system would find it more helpful too, since it's no explained ingame and lots of players don't frequent the forums.

And I'm sure I've seen Velocity somewhere mention that the lack of ways of getting rid of your credits is something that they're trying to think of ways to 'fix'. This would be a good one. Especially if you could stagger the unlocking of the songs in the shop, as I suggested.

[wildfireskunk]

I love the idea. Although, I'd say that if it were possible, perhaps make it so that the secret songs didn't unlock in the shop until your account has had a total credit turnover of the amount it'd require to unlock. That'd still keep them kinda special :3

[rushyrulz]

Elaborate? sure.

There is no reason we need to do this. This would just be changing the game for the sake of changing the game. There's nothing wrong with the current system and 'amass credits vs spend credits' isn't a big enough conundrum to invoke change, nor is it a problem. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[Ninty64]

I agree that the system is confusing and that something should be done about that. But I don't see the need to change the entire system.

Maybe they could create a page where you 'store' credits that would tell you how many credits you have stored for secret songs, how many more credits you need to unlock the next song, and what secret songs you have already unlocked. That way you could separate secret song credits from 'liquid' credits without changing the system. It would also be less confusing for newbies.

[rayword45]

Contrastly, because of the whole "Planet KARMA price" issue, we could do vice-versa, raise reqs for certain songs, and liquidate Purchased into secret.

[wildfireskunk]

Originally Posted by rayword45

Contrastly, because of the whole "Planet KARMA price" issue, we could do vice-versa, raise reqs for certain songs, and liquidate Purchased into secret.

That would entirely negate the point of doing it the other way around to stop the mass buildup of credits.

[Netjet!]

I'd have to agree with rushy as I don't see a real need for this system. It sounds alright but what we have now isn't horrible enough to warrant a big change IMO.

[justin_ator]

I like this idea, and I honestly support it. If you guys think people should be more inclined to purchase other songs first, raise the price more on PK. Honestly new players aren't going to spend 30k on a 12 when they can't FC 4's.

The only reason I can see this being not worth it is because it would require a movement of the whole secret genre into purchased, but hell I'd do that if I had access to the correct file. You guys say we don't need the system, but let's weight the pros and cons.

Pros:
Less Credits
Less Hassle/confusion for new players
Less conflict and frustration between the two systems
Creates more cheap Purchased files
Gives people more choice to unlock things in the order they want
New change

Cons:
Moving songs into another genre
New change

I'll gladly add things to this list as you state arguments.
(Chris, feel free to add this to your OP, just quote me if you want to get the bb code [not that it's much])

[Elite Ninja]

Originally Posted by justin_ator

Pros:
Less Hassle/confusion for new players

I see people who are new to the game that get confused about the secret genre all the time. Heck, when I joined it took me months to figure it out since I actually started to get active on the forums.

I support moving secret to purchase.

[Xx{Midnight}xX]

What you guys are missing is that it might not be a problem but it's not a bad suggestion either.

1. **** nostalgia. If it can be changed and it helps overall, then do it if the community likes it. (And yes I apply this to the legacy genre as well.)

2. Hi19 in a previous thread I made the songs from Purchased cannot be moved or anything like that. I can't recall if the prices could be changed however.

3. I support this. One or the other there's honestly no reason to want to save up that many credits. It's kinda a waste and it gives people a place to actually sink them into. Plus it's rather obnoxious to have to keep that many aside for ONE chart. And even then to those of us who like to be kind and host tournies, this might give people a reason to host them.

4. Changing purchased prices to be more logical is always a win if it could be done. Same with (If it's kept) the secret genre being reorganized. It's absolutely silly that it takes so much to unlock a 10 where there's an 11 right before it that's harder and worth less.

[TheSaxRunner05]

Originally Posted by Xx{Midnight}xX

1. **** nostalgia. If it can be changed and it helps overall, then do it if the community likes it. (And yes I apply this to the legacy genre as well.)

I agree with this point. If something is out of date an confusing, change it. (I would also like the legacy genre moved to token ranks lol)

[justin_ator]

Middie and I agree on something :')

[sayuncle990]

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

First of all, FFR needs more credit sinks, this is a perfect way.

If people want the secret songs, they are a much larger and permanent credit sink. For instance, I want to play Final Fantasy Last Battle Festival, but I need 70k credits. When I get 70k credits, I probably won't spend them as I want to keep playing that song. That means I am basically at 0 credits until I build more up. Also, with the prices so low, this sink won't last very long.