TWG CLXIV: Classics Man - Game Thread

[Hakulyte]

If that's the truth, raeko and AA were probably both targeted to frame Shado.

[Hakulyte]

Now if you look at who wants Shado dead really badly...

You have MML/Xel almost instantly.

[Hakulyte]

Anyway, back to rereading thread.

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

Guys I'm kind of triggered from something else and it's hard to get my head in the game but I will post some thoughts before going to the waffle house to cool down



First and foremost are we not calling SunFan out for taking his townread and starting a wagon on it just to realize that yep, if I take someone who I've and several people have noted their towntell and lynch them they'll flip green? That's pretty disgusting yo. [twgv]SunFan if you could give me a rundown of you're line of thinking for that now that it's in the past that'll be helpfull.


Second, it looks like Witch just slipped. She shouldn't have any strong ideas on how you'd NK a guy that as far he knew lost interest in the game and was posting "yep" "jontron.gif" and "bucko" posts for half the day. It should be clear that someone who knows him made that kill and for him to already sort of understand the reasoning behind it is suspicious as fuck. I want SunFan to get at me but Witch could easily be my vote today.

Third, the fact that [WIFOM=tinfoil] AA wasn't fearkilled again suggest that he probably has a wolf or two in his strong town leans again (if you know it's WIFOM, why are you going here anyway?) [/WIFOM]. I mean he could be a wolf but I fucking doubt it. Even that stupid vote for DPB is something he'd do as town (And yes AA it was stupid come fight me) and I no reason to think he's a wolf otherwise. Chances are he's just being wrong and an experience player here picked Charu because it's always gotta be either Charu or AA here for d0.


Raeko as Vigi kill was stupid and chances are you gave yourself up. Why did you not pick one of the wagons instead? fuck me man you're not helping town right now.

Freezin's gimmick is stupid and I've already said as much before. Emotionally I 100% agree with Haku on this, but I believe I'm already on the trail of wolves so I can't justify lynching someone over roleplay


And to be honest anyone voting for Freezin over roleplay with the exception of "I'm way too prideful in being wrong" Hakulyte should be fucking grilled. Maybe after I eat and calm down I'll look into doing just that. You only make such lynches if you have no other leads. Actually here's me reminding myself to look at those people's scumleans later

I'm super disappointed in Roundbox right now that was one of his weakest EoDs and normally if he has a weak EoD he bounces back strong at the start of the next day. That's yet to happen unless I somehow missed his post. Might happen, not holding my breath.

....I guess I need to try and ISO Charu later but fuck I dread ever having to ISO Charu's posts. I fully expect he was probably nightkill'd not so much for his reads but for his potential though.

Something Something about "knowing(?)" Vigi kill and defending Jade.

[ShadoWolfe]

Here til about 5mins to 2pm
so 40 minutes or so

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

There's too much Haku and Witch of Space or whatever the fuck we're calling Freezin now (third paragraph? Bro use the second to last paragraph always) for my brain to function probably



I will say I wanted to see more snooping from Xel and right now that isn't happening.

That's pretty sad


Will see you guys no later then 6EST but hopefully sooner!

Uhhhhh..

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

PS vote Shado

Huh.
Awfully convenient way to push your mislynch without having to do any work..

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

You know, I don't think it's just Sunfan having an off day here.

I feel like if sunfan's wolf, there's awfully many people he's giving the "blindreper treatment".
The rest of your quoted post is neither here nor there, though. He mentioned witch because part of the suspicion against him was for hard-defending her, but she's since flipped town.

[Hakulyte]

I'm reconsidering about if JK should claim here. I just have a feeling it won't be as helpful as I hope.

I don't think the likeliness of hitting "the assigned kill" is worth being Confirmed here.

Feel free to argue about this.

[Hakulyte]

Hey Shado, I have a good one for you: #2395

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by XelNya

Let me elaborate on why I'm advocating to not even consider partners this phase before I do that.

The issue is this. By considering partners, you're making a lot of assumptions based on interactions with players whose roles we clearly don't know. We've been wrong all game.

However. We have someone with a solid case made on them. They have had a miserable reaction to a player who trusted them flop on them, to a point of giving up, until a solution was reminded to them. Shado reacting to my flop is all the reason I need aside from my own digging into AA's post's points. I rarely sheep like that with actually going back and reading them over as carefully.

That's why I am hell-bent on seeing his flip.

Any-who. I'm actually going to go do that.

"seeing his flip" is so passive. You're talking about ending the game here, there are no options except a successful lynch.
What miserable reaction are you talking about? Are you saying you're "reading me scum" because of me feeling done with the game after spending ALL DAY in thread trying to prevent people from mislynching me?
That's just a bad read, and a bad reason for a read. You said you don't see me ever giving up as town, but you literally have no precedent to judge from. Go read my wolfgame last game. Go read the turbo before that. I'm fucking tenacious when all I have to do is twist people's words/intentions to divert suspicion off me. Look at me this game, I've literally done the opposite of that. Was I frustrated when a day of defending false accusations just led another player to vote me? Yes. Did I come back and try to clean up my game? Yes. At the time, my motivation was to prevent myself from being the cause of town losing. Now, my motivation's changed. Even if I'm mislynched here, I won't beat myself up over it. I've fought, called out people, had better reads than the consensus, advocated for the lynches I believed in, and ended up misread hard. I don't even think town will win this game anymore, I just really don't want to lose in a sweep. Even that's starting to look unlikely, but I'll keep trying as long as I can. I'm really not a wolf, and you need to get off me if you aren't either.

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

Hey Shado, I have a good one for you: #2395

Me and Xel already covered this in depth. He denied it and then eventually acknowledged I had a point "that got swept under the rug to my credit" IN THE SAME POST HE VOTED ME IN.

Why's it a good one for me?

[ShadoWolfe]

Running late, but I wanted to hit wabby's post real quick 'cause he made a good point ughhhh

[Prophylaxis]

Originally Posted by wineandbread

In all seriousness, at this point in the game I think it is better to have confidence in a read and be wrong than show uncertainty. So to that point, do you think Xel is the best lynch today?

Do you think Xel/Shado could be partners? I know you are mostly reading Shado as town, but just humor me.

1. I think Xel is the most likely wolf on the backpack wagon and he's been mostly meh throughout the entire game. After I did the vote analysis though I think Jade is slightly more likely scum, but I'm rolling with Jade/Xel/?? for now.

2. Possibly, with the way EoD2 went down where Shado pushed for Xel then CFD'd onto Witch? I'm not too concerned with partner stuff right now; I'm more focused on finding the individually most scummiest person since there are still three wolves alive.

Originally Posted by wineandbread

1. I think Shado is on there (it was entirely too easy after the things AA said for most people to vote witch here I think) However, if you recall Shado pushed for Xel at eod.

2. This isn't really helpful as you're only leaving out two names from that list. If you boil your statement down to "there is at least one scum in these 5 names" you are automatically correct by maths. I strongly encourage you to consider me town if it helps simplify your analysis.

3. Can I hear your reasoning behind why you think an all-town wagon makes a person more scum-like? Also you seemed to prefer Jade as scum rather than MML, is this correct?

I do prefer Jade for scum rather than MML.

I will say that your "I strongly urge you to consider me town" is a good look for you (though I could be bought in by the AtE), and I'm glad that you spent time commenting on my analysis. What do you think of Jade, yourself?

An all-town wagon makes the person slightly more likely to be scum because if the person being wagonned is town, then why are there no scum on the wagon? Scum need to play to their win condition, after all, which is mislynching townies.

Originally Posted by Shado

If you really think this way, I think it'd be a good use of your time to try to solve the game with me as arbitrary town and arbitrary wolf and see which scenario makes more sense to you.
I'd tell you to just solve it with me as town, but I guess that's not very fair to you.
But yeah, if I'm your last missing piece, then please try to solve it with me as either alignment. I'd like to read what you come up with, and I think it's fair to say it'd help everyone read you as well.

Yeah, that's fair. After I finish this catchup post I'll go ahead and consider the gamestate with you as town or scum.

Originally Posted by MML

Good stuff.

Don't say "good stuff" to me bringing up wagons. Look at it! Analyze it! Engage with me, like you said you would yesterday, and draw your own conclusions!

Originally Posted by Haku

"I am VT, lynch me" D0 looks more wolfy than towny for you imo as well. Is this fake lack of motivation or you seriously don't care about the potentially most important phase?

I do care about this phase, but the Witch flip at the EoD makes this game feel unwinnable. The vig is the most powerful role in the setup and could seriously swing the game for us but that's all for naught now.

Originally Posted by Haku

That wagon is 3 townies. Why would that make Sunfan scum?

Four townies if you're town.

It would probably make sunfan scum because if sunfan is town here, then why do the wolves not jump on the mislynch?

Shado makes good points about Xel's read on him. Honestly leaning towards voting one of Jade/Xel EoD.

I know I'm going to trigger Haku by saying this but I really like his progression/thoughts on page 42 here. If he's scum, hats off; I think I'm at ride or die with him.

..Which is making me look more into Sunfan since that wagon was weird.

I really want to vote Xel right now. His play this phase feels like he's just phoning it in because he knows that he's going to win by mislynching town!Shado, while Shado feels like he's actually trying to figure out the game. Xel's posts don't feel like he's trying to re-evaluate or figure the gamestate out; it's "tunnel onto Shado". Feels like easy scum play to me.

Witch of Space: Can you please concisely explain as to why you are scumreading Shado despite his behavior and posts Today? He feels as though he is trying to work the gamestate out.

Xel's big post is. I'm having trouble getting into his mindset. His spoilers are all basically "quotes" -> "reaction", and then he has his reads, where he's scumreading Jade/Sunfan/Shado/me? The problem is I'm not exactly sure how his reaction LEADS to his reads. Like I'm not exactly understanding how he is coming up with a scumread on Shado, and his only posts on me are:

Originally Posted by XelNya

Slank cover for not posting more because you know talking more will lead to us getting you if you're wolf

Originally Posted by XelNya

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhg

I liked you sooooo muuuuuuuuuuch

whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

He's literally only scumreading me for inactivity.

------

So where am I at?

I want to lynch either one of Xel or Jade. Sunfan feels like probable scum because he hasn't really done any solving at all Today; his posts feel more like window dressing to me and it's possible that he pocketed me earlier in the game with the defense. Plus, four townies on his wagon thing which is not super strong but is a Thing.

Xel feels more like scum because his push on Shado feels very agenda-related; he doesn't care how he'll look after Shado flips since it feels like he's sealing the final mislynch.

Shado I think is possible town in Xel!scum worlds. His posts Today feel like a townie trying to solve the game. I'm sorry, AA and others, if I lose the game because I get pocketed by Shado; his posts feel like they have real heart to them.

wineandbread is ??? maybe town? His posts addressed to me feel townie to me at least. I don't know; I'll look at him if we start lynching scum and the game continues. If he's scum then he has scumbuddies, which are probably Xel and Jade.

Ditto with MML. I'm a little unnerved as he keeps vacillating his read on me/says that he's going to sort me but doesn't, but lots of people said he's town and I'm willing to trust dead townies. I'll re-evaluate if the game goes on.

If anyone wants to engage me about my reads or my view of the gamestate, feel free to.

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by Wineandbread

Oh shit multiquoting works over multiple pages? TIL



The thing about you that I felt was weird which MML/Haku have touched on is that you seem more antagonistic this game than I would expect. Maybe somebody else can comment, and since I've never played a wolf game with you, but it strikes me weird the way you lashed out at Lar and Shado



This brings me to my two views I guess.
One is where you, Shado, is a wolf. In which case, I'm not that sure on your partners.
The other is where Xel and MML are partners (with Jade maybe?). It's the unwavering attitude from both of them that is messing with my head right now. They are bursting with confidence from a source that I don't have.

@Xel: I find it interesting that you haven't actually voted for Shado despite all your talk. Why do you insist on being the hammer rather than the second vote?

BOLDED I agree with.
Except, sunfan hasn't lashed out at me I don't think. I'd say more insidious than antagonistic, considering he kinda fueled AA's fire in tunneling on me but didn't do much of the work himself.
I don't like sunfan staying in the background, but I think he does a fair bit of that as either alignment.

[ShadoWolfe]

late be back in a few hours

[Hakulyte]

I've been rereading the entire thread paying attention to Jade and I can confirm that it's mostly filler and grouping/pairing which is honestly completely useless in this game state.

I feel like FreezinIce would have yelled at me for doing pairs instead of jumping in my sandbox.

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by Wineandbread

Yeah man it's totally impossible for wolves to coordinate
Not to mention the second most voted was witch, who we know now was town.

I don't see how you can even say this about that EoD, dude.
Maybe it's cause you replaced in, but go back and LOOK at the votecounts leading up to that.
It was four wagons all towards the end of that. Also the atmosphere was volatile as fuck. There's no way I try to pull town OFF a mislynch there if I were wolf. but yeah super late now BBL

[inDheart]

Votes from post 3119 to post 3537
Night in 6:52:30
---

• Votes -- Lynch -- Voters
• 1 -- ShadoWolfe -- MixMasterLar (31)
• 1 -- unvote -- Hakulyte (165)
• 6 -- not voting -- Prophylaxis (10), ShadoWolfe (79), thesunfan (60), TWG Jade Harley (29), Wineandbread (20), XelNya (21)

[Hakulyte]

Correction: I think should not claim unless he's about to get lynched.

[Hakulyte]

Is the "assigned killer" decided randomly by the host?