"Common Core" Math standard

[DossarLX ODI]

So a national standard for mathematics in American public schools is put in place and it's making states like Massachusetts lower their standards if their schools want federal grants. This is terrible.

http://www.eagleforum.org/publicatio...s-schools.html

[Arntonach]

The problem is that the higher-ups who don't have much experience with education set up the plan with their problems in mind, unaware of the ramifications on the personal level. This will make them look good to their peers & the people that fund them while everyone else suffers. It makes me sick.

[igotrhythm]

Not to mention that Eagle Forum (as seen on their Facebook page) is crammed full of "conservative and pro-family" people, but that's for another thread. As good as the goal of having one unified set of standards for teachers across the nation to shoot for is, the problem is that it's forcing many states to rein themselves in, using completely unproven methods. "Rigid motions" in geometry class? Delaying algebra until ninth grade? Has America seriously reached the point where we want to ENFORCE mediocrity in our youth?

[reuben_tate]

At my high school, Algebra is typically taught in the 9th grade. If a student is more mathematically inclined they may take Algebra in the 8th grade. Students that end up taking Algebra in the 9th grade still have the capability of leaving with an education up to trigonometry and some pre-calculus knowledge (whilst students who take Algebra in the 8th grade can leave with up to an education of Calculus I (AP Calculus AB)). So for students who don't plan to get a career in a heavy math-oriented field, it's not really necessary to possess the knowledge from Calculus. Also, a lot of high school math teachers don't always know what their doing so some students might prefer to learn up to pre-calculus in high school so they can learn Calculus "the right way" in a university setting. So delaying algebra till the 9th grade isn't something I see being too problematic, just as long as they offer algebra to the 8th graders who are a bit more mathematically inclined as the rest of their peers.

The idea of these "common core" math standards in general however, this seems like a huge mess. Reminds me of NCLB which should be really called "No Child Gets Ahead." There's a reason why multiple crabs in a bucket never escape: they pull down on each other so not a single crab can escape the bucket.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality
(No, I'm not Filipino, but Filipino culture plays some role in the culture of Hawaii which is probably why I'm familiar with this theory.)

[qqwref]

Originally Posted by reuben_tate

At my high school, Algebra is typically taught in the 9th grade. If a student is more mathematically inclined they may take Algebra in the 8th grade. Students that end up taking Algebra in the 9th grade still have the capability of leaving with an education up to trigonometry and some pre-calculus knowledge

This actually *is* better than the standards in some states, but what's important is that it's far below the standards in other states, and also far below the standards in other countries that we are supposed to be competing with on an intellectual level. How are we going to keep up with China when we are assuming our own kids can't even handle division until 6th grade? And since the plan is to give federal funding, nationwide, to public schools that follow this curriculum, anyone with a better system can't just follow the better one instead. It would literally cost them money they don't have.

Originally Posted by reuben_tate

So for students who don't plan to get a career in a heavy math-oriented field, it's not really necessary to possess the knowledge from Calculus.

It's not about being in a "heavy math-oriented field". Basic calculus knowledge actually is very useful for almost every field involving abstract calculations (e.g. engineering, architecture, any hard science...). Because of that, for college you simply need a certain amount of math, and not even starting it in high school means that colleges have to waste time getting people up to a basic level they should already be at.

[top]

calling it now

america is trying to be the worst at every possible thing

[Garquillex]

I personally don't mind if math education gets worse. It might help build steam for a significant change to be made in how math is taught entirely.

http://www.maa.org/devlin/lockhartslament.pdf

[UserNameGoesHere]

I just think of all the people who had to take college algebra.

Really? You somehow made it to university but haven't had algebra yet? (Or couldn't pass the exemption testing?)

I think things like this will just make that a whole lot worse.

Also, division not being introduced until 6th grade? What!? Seriously!?

If you haven't had division in elementary school and haven't had algebra in middle school (or at the very most by high school) then you're doing things very wrong.

[dAnceguy117]

Originally Posted by UserNameGoesHere

I just think of all the people who had to take college algebra.

Really? You somehow made it to university but haven't had algebra yet? (Or couldn't pass the exemption testing?)

College Algebra is equivalent to Algebra 2, if I recall correctly. so that's... less bad. right?

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less bad but not by much

[UserNameGoesHere]

Originally Posted by dAnceguy117

College Algebra is equivalent to Algebra 2, if I recall correctly. so that's... less bad. right?

I started university with calculus even though I'd had it in high school but didn't score well enough on AP testing to exempt.

The very earliest math I would reasonably expect a university-ready candidate to need to take would be precalculus. Anything earlier than that I would expect should have been mastered by no later than high school.

If students aren't learning algebra (even algebra 2) until college level, that tells me their high schools have failed in adequate teaching and the college is now having to pick up the slack.

Seriously, how is algebra not a requirement for high school graduation? I'd think no matter what your job is you could use algebra.

[Reincarnate]

What the *fuck*. Algebra is so important -- don't skimp on that.

[reuben_tate]

Originally Posted by qqwref

This actually *is* better than the standards in some states, but what's important is that it's far below the standards in other states, and also far below the standards in other countries that we are supposed to be competing with on an intellectual level. How are we going to keep up with China when we are assuming our own kids can't even handle division until 6th grade? And since the plan is to give federal funding, nationwide, to public schools that follow this curriculum, anyone with a better system can't just follow the better one instead. It would literally cost them money they don't have.


It's not about being in a "heavy math-oriented field". Basic calculus knowledge actually is very useful for almost every field involving abstract calculations (e.g. engineering, architecture, any hard science...). Because of that, for college you simply need a certain amount of math, and not even starting it in high school means that colleges have to waste time getting people up to a basic level they should already be at.

I see your point for the first paragraph which is why I'm against the idea in general since it doesn't allow any students to get ahead for those that want to. I was simply stating how Algebra in the 9th grade for most students is understandable however forcing students to have to wait till the 9th grade to take it if they want to take it earlier (like 8th grade) isn't right. So I'm just going to leave it that we're in agreement here :P

Having to wait till the 6th grade to master division is unacceptable in my opinion however, haha.

Also, for your second paragraph, all those fields you listed are math-oriented fields. I can't imagine calculus being used much or at all in fields such as art, psychology, philosophy, music, etc. Also, like I said before, some high school teachers don't know how to teach Calculus properly. Some try to teach it how some teach other math courses in the sense that they teach it in a purely computational sense. Calculus is one of those classes where you can only go so far with memorizing computational methods, you need a good degree of understanding of what's "really happening" as well so teachers that don't teach the class properly will leave their students with a bad Calculus background.

EDIT: I will say it saddens me to see so many university students not know basic algebra.

[eastsideman09]

Why not just implement the CC standards to the 30 states that it would benefit, and let the others keeps their own? There are a handful that aren't implementing this as it is.

Not that this should be implemented on a wide scale to begin with... There needs to be SOME sort of testing period for these standards, and there hasn't been...

[reuben_tate]

Just noticed that nowhere in the article does it note that schools who don't lower their standards will receive less funding/grants. Ctrl+F'ing the terms "money", "fund", "grants", etc brings up nothing for me. Based off the article alone it would seem that these are just minimum standards that are to be met, not standards that schools have to dumb themselves down to. Doss, is there any additional articles that would make your point in the OP more clear?

[Artic_counter]

Could anyone explain to me the curiculum of this algebra course you're all talking about ?

[DossarLX ODI]

Originally Posted by reuben_tate

Just noticed that nowhere in the article does it note that schools who don't lower their standards will receive less funding/grants. Ctrl+F'ing the terms "money", "fund", "grants", etc brings up nothing for me. Based off the article alone it would seem that these are just minimum standards that are to be met, not standards that schools have to dumb themselves down to. Doss, is there any additional articles that would make your point in the OP more clear?

I should give some context -- on Friday (the day I posted this thread) I was interviewing my current Calculus teacher about how math is taught in public schools, and this is when he showed me the article from Education Reporter. Then he said that some other sources stated that these standards would allow schools to get federal grants, even if it worsened the standards in some states (and Massachusetts has been known to have good standards).

[Aldentron]

mike judge called this shit