Teachers: Should they be paid more?

[flypie743]

My vote is yes. Teachers should be paid more than what they are currently being paid for what they do. Teachers are the ones who really have an impact on the world. They are really affecting our future. Teachers are the ones who are educating children all over the world. They are teaching them grammar, math, history, etc. They are even teaching other things in school (smoking and drugs are bad, etc.) Now, take for example, the football player. I'm not saying I do not appreciate what he does. He gets paid millions of dollars for tossing a ball around. Yeah, that's great. Now compare it to the low wage teachers. The teachers are helping our world much more than the football players, but they get paid tons less money, is this right? Now, yes, there aren't many football players around--they are like the gems of our society. However, my point is that when you look at how much teachers are getting paid and compare it to athletes it makes you think about what the teachers are doing and what they should be getting for it.

Q, I am waiting for your response =P

[eyespewgreekfire]

They are paid what people are willing to pay them. They work what they are willing to work for. If people regarded them as more useful, the salaries would rise on ther own. If people decided that teachers don't matter, the salaries would naturally fall. Because the people who pay the teachers are not the ones who receive the education, the wages are naturally not amazingly high. If students' parents paid teachers and somehow wanted to learn, wages would probably be higher. Then again, that system has plenty of its own problems (most high schoolers hate school). So, I would say the system is decent as it stands.

[Squeek]

A teacher is many things rolled into one.

Babysitter.
Educator.
Micromanager.
Mentor.

ALL at the same time. And I've never seen a teacher make more than 100,000 even after working for 50 years. (They do boost your paycheck over time, but not much.)

I think teachers need to make up to about 150,000 more regularly.

That's just my opinion anyway. Those people have to put up with all of you.

~Squeek

[Tasselfoot]

Inner city teachers are usually the least qualified, and therefore get paid the least. With that comes the worst students, most dangerous environments, etc. The top notch teachers go to cozy suburban schools or plush private institutions, where they can EASILY make 100,000 after 20-30 years. I know the department heads in my public school made around 100k. My school also has one of the highest average salaries in the state of PA, and then again, we have one of the highest average SAT scores in the state as well, for public schools.

It is a hard and vicious cycle. The best teachers want to teach the best students in the best environments. No one wants to work with inner city slums where gang shootings are a possibility and low wages are a guarentee. Teachers salaries come from taxes. The most affluent school distrcits can afford the best teachers, etc.

And, to top it all off... the VERY best educators teach college, not other places. I know that at Ivy schools or even my beloved NYU, some top professors can make a million or more for teaching 1-2 classes a semester. Then again, they are getting paid more for their name, reputation, and research under the universities name than for teaching their mandatory classes each semester.

All in all, I don't give a rats ass. I went to an excellent public school with top teachers, and am now at a top university. Screw everyone else. Besides, its my tax dollar. I think there are better ways to spend my money than on other people's education, since I already had mine.

[Reach]

Pfft, why even bother complaining? Do you actually think teachers are the only people that don't get paid enough money? Hahaha. Nurses anyone? or all the other people that are part of a team that save peoples lives every single day, in and out (ok not including doctors and surgeons that make good money). There are tons of jobs that are overworked, underpaid. Not like I can do anything about it. And we all know athletes are overpaid XD

[flypie743]

Nurses anyone?

Yeah, them too. :<

Some doctors don't make a lot of money. Take residents for example. They have to pay off debts from medical school, and the hospital pays them hardly anything.

[Tps222]

Athletes are totally different, though. Athletes get paid from their teams. The teams get paid from the owner. So, even if athletes got paid less, it would make no difference to teachers or nurses. It is actually helping them, because athletes have to pay taxes, which goes to those jobs. Not paying athletes as much as they do would only be helping the rich owners. If athletes have more, they buy more. If they buy more, businesses get rich. Rich means taxes. Taxes mean money to teacher and or nurses.

I'm expecting Q to come in here and point me in my ways of error.

[The_Q]

Eyespew, you just need to stop getting Invisible Hand-jobs. Let's get into deeper things...even if it's still econ 101.

Marginal value! You know you love it. Of course you do, marginal value helps you determine the quantity of an item you're willing to buy at a certain price. It's very basic stuff. The higher the marginal value, the more you're willing to buy it. When the marginal value decreases to the point where the curve intersects the line that is the price you have acheived the end of your purchasing frenzy.

In English: the amount you already have determines how you value the product. When the value coincides with the price a rational person would stop buying. To illustrate this, let's look at a bottle of water.

You're in the desert and all you have is a full bottle of water. When you start out on your trip you bottle is full, right? If you spill a drop of water while walking you'll not think of it as much as a gulp of water spilling. A drop is nothing compared to the full bottle you have. Later in you trip you've had a lot to drink. You bottle is nearly empty except for the last four drops. In utter dramatic desperation you throw your head back and try to inhale the last four drops of water. One of those drops misses your desired target, your mouth, and heads for the sand. You're more likely to dive after this one drop now than you were when you had a full bottle. The value of this one drop, identical in every way to the other, has increased because of (you guessed it) supply and demand. The next drop would be worth even more. We call this marginal value. It's fun.

How does this relate to teachers? There are too many now for them to be able to be paid much more than they already are. The value of another teacher is not enough to make up for the price (and as far as I know, the value of one fewer eacher is still unable to make up for the price). A huge problem in the "teachers not being paid enough" situation is the government. If the government wasn't around to assure of a certain amount of teaching jobs then there would be a disincentive to teach and the pay would go up. Not only would the pay go up but better teachers would be hired so that schools could adequately compete with each other and a demand for higher pay would ensue.

It's also plenty easy to argue the reasons behind a football player being paid millions of dollars to throw around a ball. It's simple: the service he provides is not only in high demand but low in supply. There are few talented football players around. Even more so, there are very few Payton Mannings just running around. There's just one. If the demand for Payton increases, Payton can increase the price it takes to buy him as much as he wants. He's got a monopoly on himself.

I'll get to nurses later. Right now I have actual work to do.

Q

[Tasselfoot]

I demand your agreement with my statements Q. You completely avoided my post because you hate agreeing with me.



And, I really am sick of all this baby econ 101 bs. Everyone and their mother knows econ101. Just because you write about it more eloquently than everyone else doesn't mean that we all don't know it and got As in the class (Got an A in Micro, B+ in Macro).

[stretchypanda]

Woo! Something in CT to which I have a definite interest in responding!

Okay, it is possible that I will come out biased in this argument, since I plan to be a teacher. I'm not sure that I am for higher pay, but I think the range should be a little more even from state to state. Public education is funded (as has been stated) by the people who utilize it -- tax dollars. The percentage that is subtracted from taxes varies from district to district. I can remember that usually the only issue that came up in school board meetings while I was in highschool was for taxes and millage and that kind of thing. My highschool was always begging for money because it was in a very small, rural area, and the budget was, as a result, very small. We had all kinds of needs -- new books, new musical instruments, landscaping for our track and baseball field. Most of the money made went into my school's two strongest suits: baseball and Agriculture (yep). Oddly enough, the teachers at my school were the highest-paid in the region.

As for the supply of teachers being too great, that's not true in every state. Oklahoma suffers from what many educators like to call the "Brain Drain." That is, people come to Oklahoma, get certified to teach, but then move out of state for jobs. The reason is very simple: Oklahoma teachers are some of the lowest-paid in the country, and that's pretty much all over the state, not just from district to district.

Teachers live with all kinds of things thrown at them. It's a very emotionally draining job, and it's become increasingly dangerous, what with the rise in school violence. I've had teachers whose lives have been threatened by students. It's very trying to become a mentor and a friend to a student but to stay on the right side of that teacher-student relationship line.

I think that teachers in most areas deserve more money than they are making. I think, however, that before pay for teachers is raised, certification standards need to become much more rigid. It is outrageously easy for anyone to get a job in a school -- most don't bother with background checks. At my school, anyone could be a substitute, no qualifications necessary. The basketball coach even got his never-certified wife a job as cheerleading coach and speech/drama teacher.

Word.

[Tasselfoot]

Two words..... BALD KNOB.

Seriously though... think about the difference panda. You went to school in rural backwater Arkansas. I went to school in white-collar suburbia of Philadelphia. I'm not trying to put myself above you, but I definately was fortunate enough to get a great advantage over the majority of the country by living in a very affluent area. I'm fairly confident that we spent more money on things like Chemistry Club, Quiz Bowl, Math Club, and FBLA than things like Baseball or Field Hockey (Football was self supporting from ticket sales).

Also, subbing isn't teaching. No kid respects a sub. It just doesn't happen. A sub is like a locked door. If you work hard enough, you can get throw it.

Nothing is going to change with teachers. I'll repeat... good teachers want to teach in good school districts. Good school districts can afford to pay for good teachers. Everyone is happy. Crappy teachers can't get hired by good schools, so have to go to crappy schools and get paid crappy salaries and turn out crappy students. Vicious cycle.

Word.

Oh yea... one more time. Bald Knob. Teehehehe.

[stretchypanda]

"Where the Ozarks meet the Delta!"

To relieve the problem of teachers flocking to the good schools, there have been grants established that will pay off a student's tuition, and if the student should choose to teach in an area that needs teachers, the student will owe nothing in loans.

Incentive. Woo. Still going to teach in Texas. h8z Oklahoma.

EDIT: And we did have Quiz Bowl and that kind of thing, it just wasn't very highly regarded.

EDIT 2: When I went to school in Oklahoma, subs were expected to be well-versed in the subject matter and teach class as though nothing were different. In Arkansas, the sub was usually someone's mom who put her name on a list of women willing to come babysit for a day.

[Kilgamayan]

I plan on going into the field of teaching.

So yes.

[Tasselfoot]

See... our subs were retired teachers or teachers that couldn't get jobs for the year. Certified, qualified, etc. We had about 5 subs that rotated through the school, some better in some subjects than others. They got the lesson plans, etc. Tried to teach... although they never accomplished much. The point though is that the school went out and got certified subs to teach, regardless of the students apathy towards them and their material. I even liked one of those old broads. Nice lady.

And, obviously... those who want to be teachers would want higher salaries. I want higher salaries for investment bankers. That isn't the question being debated. Although in reality, there is no debate, as it is reality, and it won't change.

PS - Bald Knob. lolz

[deltro300111]

School's don't work well, for those of you who live near me, you've heard of the Wilmer-Hutchinson school district, where corruption has hurled the school into legal/financial trouble, by paying them more, you make them remember that their job is important, and thay by screwing up they screw over more than one person, and that- much unlike what it seems- they have power, and by doing that, it kills the system, just as it would if a group of students realized that a sub wouldn't write out 26 detentions for the whole class...

Teachers don't teach for the money, that's just a perk, if they did do it for the money, they wouldn't be smart, they don't make very much money,... It would work far better if schools focused even more money on tools, making it easier for 'sub-par' teachers to still teach well, and not get payed anymore, and stuff unlike teachers are for the most part expendable, and by expendable, I mean, if you don't want them, you can sell them- or just throw them away, teachers have a STRONG union, it is REALLY hard to fire a teacher....

My $.02

[Tasselfoot]

I swear... Deltro is the single largest balloon on FFR. Boy, you're filled with so much hot air, it is unbelievable.

1. I, for one, have no idea where you live or the situation of that school. The example makes no sense to 99% of people reading it

2. Paying them more makes them less corrupt.... uh huh.... how? They are independant actions. Someone will screw over others for personal gain regardless of their current situation. Look at CEOs and white collar crime.

3. A teacher screwing up is usually them giving false information. How does this kill any system? Most classes will have a smart ass like me to correct the teacher when they are wrong.

4. Also, what system? Plus, a sub won't give 26 detentions... but could easily give 5-6 plus give a hard/long homework assignment plus inform the teacher for when they get back. Teacher then goes and rains down the wrath.

5. Teaching pays more than working as a secretary (I believe). I'm sure some people do teach because it is one of the higher paying opportunities they have. Especially hispanics, or any other foreigner who can teach their native language.

6. Paying teachers less will do no good. Decreasing their salary will cause strikes, huge beefs from unions, possible lawsuits, and the most obvious, malcontent amongst the current teachers. It will also further deter future teachers from going into the profession.

7. Tool? Hammers, hoes, shovels? Seriously though... how does this help? If you give a Comp Sci teacher better computers or a Chem teacher more chemicals, nothing is going to happen if they are "sub-par", which reads "incompetent" in my book. Sub-par teachers are by their nature unable to teach well.

8. So you want to spend more money on stuff that you don't think you'll need, and just throw it away. That makes tons of sense.

9. Teachers are only hard to fire after they get tenure. That takes 3+ years to do. It is pretty easy to figure out which teachers are "sub-par" before they are tenured, and they can be fired quite easily.

And, to end it... my $.02: Your two cents are worthless. Probably of negative value. I'm getting really sick and tired of reading your posts in CT, which although are decently written, contain absolutely no decent content. My suggestion: figure out something relavent to say, or stop posting in CT.

[alainbryden]

Tasselfoot should be payed more.

And yes, teachers too. Although, it is the low pay that draws the truely selfless teachers to the job, for only someone who truely loves teaching would take such a low paying career. :P

[lightdarkness]

Originally Posted by alainbryden

Tasselfoot should be payed more.

[blahblah18]

Q plans on being a teacher too, all you people that mentioned that, who cares, it has nothing to do with the argument
The sole reason that teachers are paid dick is because its a government job paid through taxes... Every person will say "oh yeah teachers are great" then they're told it'll cost them tax money and they clam up... Its hard enough getting people to pony up for school improvements... they're not gonna want to pay taxes and not actually get any discernible benefit in return. And in response to Tass's point that he might make coutnering this, Private School teachers average annual salary is about 15-20% less then public school salary.

[Tasselfoot]

The big perk of private school for alot of teachers is that their children get free tuition, which is getting up to around college tuition for good private schools. So, they might get paid less, but their kids get public school costing education with private school environments and teachers. So chalk on 20-30 grand per kid of the teacher.

Counter that!