Should the old FMO's have been downgraded to VC's?

[awein999]

songs that were lowered....lawn wake IV, southern cross, silence, none would escape. Any others?

anyway I think the only songs out of these that were still possibly fmo were southern cross, and lawn wake IV. But I still think those were rightly lowered. First of all look at the AAA counts. second evidence is that there are vc's that have been released even years ago that were as hard as southern cross and lawn wake IV if not harder. examples: szerencsetlen, blue army, the lunatic princess, X-tinction, M.A.M.A (or maybe I'm just bad at that one)

Are we all in agreement none would escape and silence are very challenging? I definitely think so.

[T-Force]

Originally Posted by awein999

songs that were lowered....lawn wake IV, southern cross, silence, none would escape. Any others?

You forgot K8107.

THAT'S FMO material still (in my opinion).

[kjwkjw]

Originally Posted by T-Force

I had an idea with this.
Because the Actual Difficulties thread uses a 99-point scale, why not divvy it up into chunks of 5 and create 20 difficulties? Sure names may be a pain to figure out, but this way it creates a solid way to place songs into difficulties.

Of course, this will pretty much be the same thing as having only 12 difficulty groups in the long run. After all, people's skills will still improve, and some people might see the need to downgrade difficulty as that happens, whether it be a 5 point drop in a 99-point scale or a 1 point drop in a 12-point scale...

[leonid]

There's not a set threshold for AAA counts to make a song to become easier.

What if we had 10 times the number of active members than now and about half of the FMOs had more than 300 AAAs?

[MrRubix]

I believe in market forces. We should allow users to vote on a difficulty distribution given that they are capable of doing well on the highest level of skill (otherwise you have noobs rating FMO's as 100/100 because they can't even hope to pass it, let alone play harder stuff).

[STD_Sappy]

Not Southern Cross.....Or Lawn Wake IV.

[Niala]

Originally Posted by leonid

There's not a set threshold for AAA counts to make a song to become easier.

What if we had 10 times the number of active members than now and about half of the FMOs had more than 300 AAAs?

Mhm, and more players could be good at songs like Anti-Ares instead of being good at songs like NWE, does that make it right to say that Anti-Ares is easier than NWE?

Also, speaking to Rubix, I agree to a certain extent. It depends on how well you consider "doing well." To somebody who has trouble AAAing difficulty 4's, they probably can't tell the difference between an FMO and an FGO, because it just looks like a giant blur of arrows.

[MrRubix]

The only reason certain files were lowered in difficulty was because their initial difficulties were overinflated as a result of avmiss. When avmisses were nerfed, a few FMO's became no harder than other VC's. Hence the difficulty change.

[bmah]

I voted "no" before even looking at the contents on this thread. It doesn't make sense to base difficulties on a dynamic variable, which is in this case the community's overall skill level.

[Gigispackles]

Originally Posted by awein999

Are we all in agreement none would escape and silence are very challenging? I definitely think so.

.......no...just...no. You aren't everyone. I'm sorry, but you just really aren't everyone. If what you sa is correct, then Niala wouldn't have made this thread...possibly. But again, EVERYONE GOT BETTER! That does NOT make the song magically become easier than it was a week ago. It is easier in terms of YOUR skill but not EVERYONE. You are forgetting about EVERYONE ELSE. Say some beginner comes in and plays the song. It won't be easier for that person to FC/AAA because you lowered the difficulty. It's just as difficult was it was before. But that person will get better at the song eventually and they will consider it easier. Soooo...by using that logic, since I've AAA'd Emerald Hill Zone, I should have the right to say it's a level 5 or something because I'm good at it?

AAA counts also mean that more people can do it. Like I said before, it doesn't make it any easier for a beginner to FC/AAA it. If we keep playing, A TON of people will be able to AAA almost all FGO/FMO's. So when that happens, are we going to lower the difficulty? Why not just add songs of higher difficulty? Is it THAT hard? You may have to tweak the names, but it'll make the song difficulty fair.

[awein999]

Originally Posted by leonid

There's not a set threshold for AAA counts to make a song to become easier.

What if we had 10 times the number of active members than now and about half of the FMOs had more than 300 AAAs?

very true, but if the definite vc's had 600 AAA's at the same time then we'd be able to distinguish between fmo and vc. When you see a former fmo like none would escape has over 200 AAA's, more than even some of the older vc's currently that's when you have to start to think maybe it's not fmo. I should have explained what I meant by look at the AAA count.

[kjwkjw]

Originally Posted by leonid

There's not a set threshold for AAA counts to make a song to become easier.

What if we had 10 times the number of active members than now and about half of the FMOs had more than 300 AAAs?

Adding on to that, we would also need to take into effect the number of people who played a given song, which obviously varies from song to song.

Originally Posted by awein999

songs that were lowered....lawn wake IV, southern cross, silence, none would escape. Any others?

Silence and None Would Escape I can see as being a very high VC, maybe. But I really am afraid that if we downgrade Southern Cross, LW4, and K8107, which are slightly harder, we would be inclined to downgrade harder and harder FMO's gradually until the entire fixed 12-point difficulty scale needs to be redone... xD

Oh, and of course, the ultimate cause of this downgrading would be people's skill, which, like bmah, Niala, and leonid already said, varies constantly.

/2 cents

[bmah]

Agreeing with Gigispackles. Read that awein. Everything's relative. The skill level of the community can increase till songs we find harder now become easier. It's better to take the issue from a static point of view, despite "apparent indicators" that show how well people can play.

[awein999]

Originally Posted by Gigispackles

.......no...just...no. You aren't everyone. I'm sorry, but you just really aren't everyone. If what you sa is correct, then Niala wouldn't have made this thread...possibly. But again, EVERYONE GOT BETTER! That does NOT make the song magically become easier than it was a week ago. It is easier in terms of YOUR skill but not EVERYONE. You are forgetting about EVERYONE ELSE. Say some beginner comes in and plays the song. It won't be easier for that person to FC/AAA because you lowered the difficulty. It's just as difficult was it was before. But that person will get better at the song eventually and they will consider it easier. Soooo...by using that logic, since I've AAA'd Emerald Hill Zone, I should have the right to say it's a level 5 or something because I'm good at it?

AAA counts also mean that more people can do it. Like I said before, it doesn't make it any easier for a beginner to FC/AAA it. If we keep playing, A TON of people will be able to AAA almost all FGO/FMO's. So when that happens, are we going to lower the difficulty? Why not just add songs of higher difficulty? Is it THAT hard? You may have to tweak the names, but it'll make the song difficulty fair.

yeah I'm not everyone. I asked you guys if you agree with me. That's all.

true true the beginners coming to the game for the first time.....that's true. But we are only talking about the switching of what like 5 fmo songs to vc? That's all I'm refering too. Not a huge change in the game, nothing in the lower end. A vc and a fmo to a newbie is probably going to appear the same to them. WE (the people in charge of the decision), the experienced players see the difference in that which is why we came to this conclusion for the higher levels.

[Niala]

Thanks to bmah and Rubix, that's pretty much summing up what I'm saying. People got better, that shouldn't change anything. Also, there haven't been significant changes in the gameplay, so how can the skill needed to play a level have changed. As leonid said, arrows don't just disappear from a file as you get better.

[MrRubix]

Honestly, I'm in favor of a 20-point scale. I feel like 20 would be a good number to account for the variance of different patterns/song lengths/speeds/etc while still being clearly-definable.

[Gigispackles]

+1 support for the 20 difficulties system.

[awein999]

Originally Posted by MrRubix

Honestly, I'm in favor of a 20-point scale. I feel like 20 would be a good number to account for the variance of different patterns/song lengths/speeds/etc while still being clearly-definable.

this would be the best solution raised so far, definitely. Agreed

[bmah]

Will have to question the chosen number as "20" before I support that. Can't just be an arbitrary number. It sounds like we're heading in a better direction though.

[kjwkjw]

Originally Posted by MrRubix

Honestly, I'm in favor of a 20-point scale. I feel like 20 would be a good number to account for the variance of different patterns/song lengths/speeds/etc while still being clearly-definable.

Still not sure if this will allow difficulties to be more fixed even when people get better. Which is the reason why some of the FMO's got downgraded anyways.

Of course, a 20-point scale would work as a better indicator of the difficulty of the file itself.