TWG CLXIV: Classics Man - Game Thread

[thesunfan]

always me, too

[thesunfan]

gonna play some civ 5 I'll do the wagon shit later

[Prophylaxis]

Thinking about it again I really think that Jade is just scum in all worlds?

The Witch "re-evaluation" EoD, looking back, feels incredibly opportunistic. It was like, early game, "hey everyone's townreading Witch so I will too!" and then, at EoD2, "I'm going to just start scumreading Witch". Lo and behold, Witch flips vig. I dunno, it reads and feels quite agenda-y to me rather than an organic sequence of thoughts. Like, I'm not super super quick to re-evaluate on my townreads but the way Jade did it doesn't reflect well on them, IMO.

Not to mention they're one of the SUSPICIOUS SIX (someone come up with a better name for this please) at EoD1.

My only concern about this is that I haven't really found anything /explicitly/ scummy from that slot. I dinged them about asking questions that have already been asked on Day 1, but they voted, and their responses to me last Night feel.. decent. It's just that I have a fair number of townreads and assuming that my view of the gamestate is at least halfway correct then PoE brings them down to the bottom.

Just spewing thoughts here but yeah.

[Prophylaxis]

Gonna go attend a club meeting but will be checking back at various points throughout the day.

If people could actually comment on the wagon stuff and my thoughts that'd be great.

[inDheart]

shado (1) - mml
not voting - xel, proph, wab, shado, jade, sunfan, haku

[Wineandbread]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

I want to say sunfan's scum, but I have no idea what he's doing if he is. We're at MYLO. I feel like scumfan could just push for a lynch on me and the game would be over, so his posts today confuse me and make me hesitate in reading him.
I think Xel is almost always a wolf here. I'd vote him now, but I'd feel a lot more comfortable voting at EoD to prevent a wolfjack of my wagon if I'm wrong.

It's da long con

How about the last wolf?

[Wineandbread]

Oh nvm answered later

Ugh I'm gonna multiquote starting now but I actually hate the multiquote system on here

[Wineandbread]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

This is the post.
Why would he include MML if they're partners?
Who's rabbit? If it's jade, why does he include jade?!
If this is to intentionally distance himself, it's really well done because it legitimately confuses me

Maybe he doesn't think MML is his partner?
Weren't you also scumreading Jade?

Originally Posted by XelNya

You're going to arrive at the following conclusion because you're gonna read me wrong

you are gonna vote me

and this I know

despite all AA said

despite shado's response to me floping being absolutely awful, there's no town game where he gives up like that

you will see my lack of immense participation, and the lengthy "fluff" content of my one good post, you will say I sheeped to seem town

this is the conclusion you will come to

because you won't sheep. I went with AA's read because I actually looking into Shado's posts myself. I neglected to answer any questions of witch because I was afraid of fucking it up

witch softed it so slightly, I caught it and flopped on who I thought the vigi was (originally thought it was Haku actually) it was in their d1 posting, I quoted it in my larger post

There was no reason to cfd at EoD

there was no reason for AA to doubt himself

there's one answer I feel is correct

and if I have to explain that answer, you are lost

By answer you're referring to Shado? You mentioned only entertaining Shado or MML. Do you think Shado/MML is W/W or W/T?

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

Also


Whenever someone points out themselves that they've done their town tell it makes me feel like shoving a bottle of whisky up my ass so I can experience literally any other feeling then the pure anger that masive wolf slips like this induce upon me.


Maybe I'm too triggered over Haku's bullshit


I'll review it tomorrow after I wake up to find that even if someone else votes Shado here we still haven't instalost yet.

People often do refer to their own play when they want to imply they're town though, maybe not so explicitly.

Do you really think Haku/sunfan/Shado is the wolf team?

[Wineandbread]

Originally Posted by Prophylaxis

Catching up and rereading, but to be honest, the Witch vig flip kind of destroyed my motivation to play the game since I think there is a solid chance we lose the game now unless we lynch scum right after the other.

It's just. I have NO IDEA who the scum are. There are still three wolves alive and aside from Xel no one stands out to me as explicitly wolfy.

Like, given that Witch flipped town and AA flipped town, I don't think my view of the gamestate is terribly off, but we have had NO WOLF FLIPS SO FAR and I /need/ those in order to actually scumhunt well. This is terribly frustrating because, wagon analysis is shot, and interaction analysis is shot - there goes 2/3rds of my way to analyze the gamestate, leaving only behavioral analysis which I am not very good at.

Blegh.

Time to roll the dice yolo
In all seriousness, at this point in the game I think it is better to have confidence in a read and be wrong than show uncertainty. So to that point, do you think Xel is the best lynch today?

Do you think Xel/Shado could be partners? I know you are mostly reading Shado as town, but just humor me.

Originally Posted by thesunfan

I get where you're coming from, and the short and serious answer is that Hakulyte is the exception to a lot of rules in my book

ook

Originally Posted by Prophylaxis

4 -- Witch of Certainty -- MixMasterLar (36), TWG Jade Harley (84), AragakiAyase (185), ShadoWolfe (175)
3 -- ShadoWolfe -- thesunfan (142), XelNya (28), Wineandbread (15)
2 -- XelNya -- Prophylaxis (41), Witch of Certainty (65)
1 -- unvote -- Hakulyte (199)

shado (4) - sunfan, aa, xel, wab
xel (3) - proph, shado, woc
woc (2) - mml, jade
unvote - haku

4 -- DaBackpack -- roundbox (67), thesunfan (260), XelNya (94), AragakiAyase (263)
3 -- Witch of Certainty -- TWG Jade Harley (77), mellonxcollie (76), Hakulyte (272)
2 -- Prophylaxis -- Charu (313), ShadoWolfe (248)
2 -- TWG Jade Harley -- Prophylaxis (75), Witch of Certainty (94)
1 -- thesunfan -- MixMasterLar (131)
1 -- Charu -- DaBackpack (128)

4 -- thesunfan -- AragakiAyase (209), Charu (234), Hakulyte (240), Prophylaxis (47)
1 -- mellonxcollie -- ShadoWolfe (217)
1 -- XelNya -- TWG Jade Harley (53)
1 -- Charu -- DaBackpack (128)
1 -- DaBackpack -- thesunfan (171)
3 -- unvote -- Witch of Certainty (68), MixMasterLar (123), XelNya (86)
2 -- not voting -- mellonxcollie (61), roundbox (44)

4 -- TWG Jade Harley -- MixMasterLar (67), Charu (147), AragakiAyase (44), Prophylaxis (14)
1 -- XelNya -- thesunfan (50)
1 -- Prophylaxis -- ShadoWolfe (79)
1 -- Hakulyte -- Hakulyte (56)
6 -- not voting -- DaBackpack (77), mellonxcollie (9), roundbox (33), TWG Jade Harley (18), Witch of Certainty (19), XelNya (22)

Fixed the remaining colors
ofc I'd take your magenta for my name instead but let's just go with this for now

Originally Posted by Prophylaxis

Questions I am asking myself:

1. Is there scum on the Witch wagon Yesterday? If so, who is it? What about Shado's alignment?

2. We /know/ for a fact that EoD1 was basically a feasting ground for the wolves - town/town/town wagons. Therefore, scum in {roundbox (67), thesunfan (260), XelNya, TWG Jade Harley (77), Hakulyte (272)} is /incredibly/ likely. Just, who is town in that grouping and who is scum?

3. Haku is either the scum on the sunfan wagon or the sunfan wagon is composed of all townies, which maybe makes sunfan scum?

3. Ditto with Jade. MML is either scum or wagon is composed of all townies?

Food for thought here. I have never tried wagon analysis on this site so I have no idea how good it is, but meh.

I'm kind of at {Xel/Jade/????} here solely because Jade looks like scum from wagon analysis.

1. I think Shado is on there (it was entirely too easy after the things AA said for most people to vote witch here I think) However, if you recall Shado pushed for Xel at eod.

2. This isn't really helpful as you're only leaving out two names from that list. If you boil your statement down to "there is at least one scum in these 5 names" you are automatically correct by maths. I strongly encourage you to consider me town if it helps simplify your analysis.

3. Can I hear your reasoning behind why you think an all-town wagon makes a person more scum-like? Also you seemed to prefer Jade as scum rather than MML, is this correct?

Probably won't be around for the rest of the day
Btw all this talk about witch has made Heart of Witch stuck in my head, so thanks for that

[Wineandbread]

Please indulge with me

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by thesunfan

ya if you're town and I'm a wolf I'd bet another dollar I could powerwolf you down here

I'm just town, friend

I wouldn't take that bet lol it'd be an uphill battle forsure if you wanted me lynched from phase start

but I think it'd be risky for you 'cause it'd polarize you really quickly.
better play it safe and gently guide a mislynch, no?

idk. idk what scumfan does here. I'm gonna try to not read too much into it I guess.. I tried to get access to Time Travel woofchat for scumfan insight but I think the server's been deleted

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by Wineandbread

Maybe he doesn't think MML is his partner?
Weren't you also scumreading Jade?

I am, yes. Also Xel, though. The post you quoted there is a progression of my thoughts on Xel, from here:

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

I really want to say scumteam is Xel/Jade/xx(MML, sunfan? Proph??), but one of Xel's posts really threw me off on this

So basically I'm just trying to figure out if Xel would make that post regarding his partner(s) or not.

[XelNya]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

So basically I'm just trying to figure out if Xel would make that post regarding his partner(s) or not.

Well, to be frank, I probably would

except that you know

I'd have to be scum for this

and I'm not

[XelNya]

Originally Posted by Prophylaxis

Questions I am asking myself:

1. Is there scum on the Witch wagon Yesterday? If so, who is it? What about Shado's alignment?

2. We /know/ for a fact that EoD1 was basically a feasting ground for the wolves - town/town/town wagons. Therefore, scum in {roundbox (67), thesunfan (260), XelNya, TWG Jade Harley (77), Hakulyte (272)} is /incredibly/ likely. Just, who is town in that grouping and who is scum?

3. Haku is either the scum on the sunfan wagon or the sunfan wagon is composed of all townies, which maybe makes sunfan scum?

3. Ditto with Jade. MML is either scum or wagon is composed of all townies?

Food for thought here. I have never tried wagon analysis on this site so I have no idea how good it is, but meh.

I'm kind of at {Xel/Jade/????} here solely because Jade looks like scum from wagon analysis.

1. duh
2. sunfan / me
3. who cares atm
4. instead of reading into partners that may or may not exist we need to solidify the lynch for today, we don't especially have the luxury of thinking a step or two in advance unless it pertains to our lynch in question

why are we focusing on partner potentials before focusing on if we have a solid lynch or not, I don't get it

I'm all for the shado lynch obviously but I've done my looking into it

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by Prophylaxis

If I could have like a random cop check on any player I'd check Shado since if I know his alignment I think I could solve the game, but we're in my/lylo now.

If you really think this way, I think it'd be a good use of your time to try to solve the game with me as arbitrary town and arbitrary wolf and see which scenario makes more sense to you.
I'd tell you to just solve it with me as town, but I guess that's not very fair to you.
But yeah, if I'm your last missing piece, then please try to solve it with me as either alignment. I'd like to read what you come up with, and I think it's fair to say it'd help everyone read you as well.

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by XelNya

instead of reading into partners that may or may not exist we need to solidify the lynch for today

We're looking into partners in order to solidify the lynch in the first place.

:v

Also why did you tie MML with Shado?

That's weird to me.

[MixMasterLar]

Originally Posted by Prophylaxis

Time to ask myself, are four man wagons viable for wagon analysis this late in the game?

Originally Posted by Prophylaxis

4 -- Witch of Certainty -- MixMasterLar (36), TWG Jade Harley (84), AragakiAyase (185), ShadoWolfe (175)
3 -- ShadoWolfe -- thesunfan (142), XelNya (28), Wineandbread (15)
2 -- XelNya -- Prophylaxis (41), Witch of Certainty (65)
1 -- unvote -- Hakulyte (199)

shado (4) - sunfan, aa, xel, wab
xel (3) - proph, shado, woc
woc (2) - mml, jade
unvote - haku

4 -- DaBackpack -- roundbox (67), thesunfan (260), XelNya (94), AragakiAyase (263)
3 -- Witch of Certainty -- TWG Jade Harley (77), mellonxcollie (76), Hakulyte (272)
2 -- Prophylaxis -- Charu (313), ShadoWolfe (248)
2 -- TWG Jade Harley -- Prophylaxis (75), Witch of Certainty (94)
1 -- thesunfan -- MixMasterLar (131)
1 -- Charu -- DaBackpack (128)

4 -- thesunfan -- AragakiAyase (209), Charu (234), Hakulyte (240), Prophylaxis (47)
1 -- mellonxcollie -- ShadoWolfe (217)
1 -- XelNya -- TWG Jade Harley (53)
1 -- Charu -- DaBackpack (128)
1 -- DaBackpack -- thesunfan (171)
3 -- unvote -- Witch of Certainty (68), MixMasterLar (123), XelNya (86)
2 -- not voting -- mellonxcollie (61), roundbox (44)

4 -- TWG Jade Harley -- MixMasterLar (67), Charu (147), AragakiAyase (44), Prophylaxis (14)
1 -- XelNya -- thesunfan (50)
1 -- Prophylaxis -- ShadoWolfe (79)
1 -- Hakulyte -- Hakulyte (56)
6 -- not voting -- DaBackpack (77), mellonxcollie (9), roundbox (33), TWG Jade Harley (18), Witch of Certainty (19), XelNya (22)

Good stuff.

Originally Posted by Wineandbread

People often do refer to their own play when they want to imply they're town though, maybe not so explicitly.

Do you really think Haku/sunfan/Shado is the wolf team?

That's why too explicit even for Haku. Also note that Haku is coming at me at the start if this day phase over for no reason and was likely getting flustered that I was pushing back so hard. Not unless you want to say he wasn't targeting me in which case I'd love to hear you're take on it.

SunFan's re-entrance is ripped with 1-Not reading all of the thread when there wasn't that much to read 2-having a pretty shitty reason not to read all of the thread 3-trying his damnedest to get heat off of Shado. Read that again and tell me which is more likely: He's confused, wants me to calm down and is resetting his reads (Except for Haku because Haku) or he sees immediate pressure on Shado still and starts throwing names 'n shade at me, joining Haku in some flimsy logic.

I mean, you tell me what I'm suppose to think right now. While I'm still trying to decide if Haku was just having a really good first few days I have no problem thinking SunFan could be scum when you par this with that DBP bullshit.

This all depends on Shado being scum, though. If he's town then the whole theory kind of sinks through. At this point anyone not reading Shado has scum over his flip-flopity nature of Raeko and his interactions with AA is either dense or covering for him now that they don't have to worry about AA jumping down their throats.

Originally Posted by XelNya

4. instead of reading into partners that may or may not exist we need to solidify the lynch for today, we don't especially have the luxury of thinking a step or two in advance unless it pertains to our lynch in question

What do you think of the crowd not currently on board with Shado right now? How's SunFan and Haku's re-entrance look to you?

Frankly given the state of things I liked that you said we needed to lynch either me or him.

Although I guess I would.....let's say I'm confident no one will lynch me in the end if it comes down to us two.

[thesunfan]

lmao at being accused of not reading the thread
I hadn't read one page and was commenting on it as I was reading gtfo with that shit lar

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by XelNya

Admittedly I failed to do the thing I ought to have done which was advocate witch not die

and I should get lynched and mauled in postgame for it

More wolfy than towny.

Originally Posted by Prophylaxis

Catching up and rereading, but to be honest, the Witch vig flip kind of destroyed my motivation to play the game since I think there is a solid chance we lose the game now unless we lynch scum right after the other.

It's just. I have NO IDEA who the scum are. There are still three wolves alive and aside from Xel no one stands out to me as explicitly wolfy.

Like, given that Witch flipped town and AA flipped town, I don't think my view of the gamestate is terribly off, but we have had NO WOLF FLIPS SO FAR and I /need/ those in order to actually scumhunt well. This is terribly frustrating because, wagon analysis is shot, and interaction analysis is shot - there goes 2/3rds of my way to analyze the gamestate, leaving only behavioral analysis which I am not very good at.

Blegh.

"I am VT, lynch me" D0 looks more wolfy than towny for you imo as well. Is this fake lack of motivation or you seriously don't care about the potentially most important phase?

Originally Posted by Prophylaxis

Questions I am asking myself:

3. Haku is either the scum on the sunfan wagon or the sunfan wagon is composed of all townies, which maybe makes sunfan scum?

That wagon is 3 townies. Why would that make Sunfan scum?

Originally Posted by thesunfan

god my wagon looks terribly townie LOL

I don't know if I like that reaction.

Originally Posted by Prophylaxis

Thinking about it again I really think that Jade is just scum in all worlds?

Could be, could be not. Jade would have been a better lynch for D0/D1.

Originally Posted by Wineandbread

Do you think Xel/Shado could be partners? I know you are mostly reading Shado as town, but just humor me.

If Xel/Shado are partners, they're bussing each others in a mylo. (as wolves)

I'd be really surprised. The catch is that they could be both town or W/T.

(I'm starting to think that pairing is bad in general because I usually assume that if it's not W/W, it's W/T, but T/T is also an option.)

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by Prophylaxis

4 -- Witch of Certainty -- MixMasterLar (36), TWG Jade Harley (84), AragakiAyase (185), ShadoWolfe (175)
3 -- ShadoWolfe -- thesunfan (142), XelNya (28), Wineandbread (15)
2 -- XelNya -- Prophylaxis (41), Witch of Certainty (65)
1 -- unvote -- Hakulyte (199)

shado (4) - sunfan, aa, xel, wab
xel (3) - proph, shado, woc
woc (2) - mml, jade
unvote - haku

4 -- DaBackpack -- roundbox (67), thesunfan (260), XelNya (94), AragakiAyase (263)
3 -- Witch of Certainty -- TWG Jade Harley (77), mellonxcollie (76), Hakulyte (272)
2 -- Prophylaxis -- Charu (313), ShadoWolfe (248)
2 -- TWG Jade Harley -- Prophylaxis (75), Witch of Certainty (94)
1 -- thesunfan -- MixMasterLar (131)
1 -- Charu -- DaBackpack (128)

4 -- thesunfan -- AragakiAyase (209), Charu (234), Hakulyte (240), Prophylaxis (47)
1 -- mellonxcollie -- ShadoWolfe (217)
1 -- XelNya -- TWG Jade Harley (53)
1 -- Charu -- DaBackpack (128)
1 -- DaBackpack -- thesunfan (171)
3 -- unvote -- Witch of Certainty (68), MixMasterLar (123), XelNya (86)
2 -- not voting -- mellonxcollie (61), roundbox (44)

4 -- TWG Jade Harley -- MixMasterLar (67), Charu (147), AragakiAyase (44), Prophylaxis (14)
1 -- XelNya -- thesunfan (50)
1 -- Prophylaxis -- ShadoWolfe (79)
1 -- Hakulyte -- Hakulyte (56)
6 -- not voting -- DaBackpack (77), mellonxcollie (9), roundbox (33), TWG Jade Harley (18), Witch of Certainty (19), XelNya (22)

You missed a few and included yourself.

idk what to think about your slot. If you're super obviously town I missed something.