Is Advocating Genocide Compatible With Christianity?

[Specforces]

People often ask how a Christian could advocate the mass slaughter of let's say Bolsheviks or Muslims, I answered this question through historical reference,

This is long Critical Thinkers, so try to keep your attention span,

Here is my response:

Biblical Slaughter of Midianites Justified

Audience Participant: I've been reading through the Book of Numbers recently, and come across that passage in Chapter 31 about the destruction of the Midianites. How do you explain that apparent travesty of the destruction of that people with the just and holy God?

Pat Robertson: The wars of extermination have given a lot of people trouble unless they understand fully what was going on. The people in the land of Palestine were very wicked. They were given over to idolatry. They sacrificed their children. They had all kinds of abominable sex practices. They were having sex apparently with animals. They were having sex men with men and women with women. They were committing adultery and fornication. They were serving idols. As I say, they were offering their children up, and they were forsaking God.

God told the Israelites to kill them all: men, women and children; to destroy them. And that seems like a terrible thing to do. Is it or isn't it? Well, let us assume that there were two thousand of them or ten thousand of them living in the land, or whatever number, I don't have the exact number, but pick a number. And God said, "Kill them all." Well, that would seem hard, wouldn't it? But that would be 10,000 people who probably would go to hell. But if they stayed and reproduced, in thirty, forty or fifty or sixty or a hundred more years there could conceivably be ... ten thousand would grow to a hundred, a hundred thousand conceivably could grow to a million, and there would be a million people who would have to spend an eternity in Hell! And it is far more merciful to take away a few than to see in the future a hundred years down the road, and say, "Well, I'll have to take away a million people, that will be forever apart from God because the abomination is there." It's like a contagion. God saw that there was no cure for it. It wasn't going to change, and all they would do is cause trouble for the Israelites and pull the Israelites away from God and prevent the truth of God from reaching the earth. And so God in love -- and that was a loving thing -- took away a small number that he might not have to take away a large number.

Now that's a long answer, but I think that's closer to it. Danuta?

Danuta Soderman: Well, my question would be, Pat, why didn't He just save them all? I mean, why didn't He say, "I forgive you, I save you," and save them that way? Why obliterate them?

Robertson: A righteous God, just like a righteous judge -- if a man comes into court who has committed murder, the judge can't say, "Well I'm a merciful kind of judge, and the jury has found you guilty of premeditated, first degree murder, but I'm such a nice guy, you can just go ahead and I forgive you." He can't do that and uphold the law. They would impeach him. A judge has to keep the law and God has certain laws in the universe which must be upheld. The only way He fulfilled those laws was to die himself in the person of His son on the cross. And he is not going to force anybody to accept him. It has to be a free choice. And they had freely chosen to reject him and it doesn't get any better. It gets worse.

-- Pat Robertson, The 700 Club television program, May 6, 1985, justifying and celebrating the wholesale genocide allegedly committed by the early invading Israelites. Excerpted from "Genocidal Act of 'Love'" by Elliott Finesse, and critically edited by Cliff Walker; some portions are contained in Robert Boston, The Most Dangerous Man in America.

NUMBERS 31

1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

2 Avenge the children of Israel of the Mid'i-anites: afterward shalt thou be gathered unto thy people.

3 And Moses spake unto the people, saying, Arm some of yourselves unto the war, and let them go against the Mid'i-anites, and avenge the LORD of Mid'i-an.

4 Of every tribe a thousand, throughout all the tribes of Israel, shall ye send to the war.

5 So there were delivered out of the thousands of Israel, a thousand of every tribe, twelve thousand armed for war.

6 And Moses sent them to the war, a thousand of every tribe, them and Phin'ehas the son of Ele-a'zar the priest, to the war, with the holy instruments, and the trumpets to blow in his hand.

7 And they warred against the Mid'i-anites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.

8 And they slew the kings of Mid'i-an, beside the rest of them that were slain; namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Mid'i-an: Ba'laam also the son of Be'or they slew with the sword.

9 And the children of Israel took all the women of Mid'i-an captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.

10 And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.

11 And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts.

12 And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses and Ele-a'zar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan near Jericho.

13 And Moses, and Ele-a'zar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp.

14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle.

15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?

16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Ba'laam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Pe'or, [Num. 25.1-9] and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.

17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

Deuteronomy 7

1 When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Gir'gashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Per'izzites, and the Hivites, and the Jeb'usites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou;

2 and when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor show mercy unto them:

3 neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.

4 For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly.

5 But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire.

Deuteronomy 25

17Remember what Am'alek did unto thee by the way, when ye were come forth out of Egypt;

18 how he met thee by the way, and smote the hindmost of thee, even all that were feeble behind thee, when thou wast faint and weary; and he feared not God.

19 Therefore it shall be, when the LORD thy God hath given thee rest from all thine enemies round about, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance to possess it, that thou shalt blot out the remembrance of Am'alek from under heaven; thou shalt not forget it.

And let us not forget Sodom and Gamorrah -- the two homosexual nations which God destroyed utterly.

"Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword." (Matthew 10:34)


What are your thoughts?

Specforces

[Anonymous]

Genocide is wrong no matter what the reason. Couldn't they tried to convert them or something?

[m4rk4s]

not exactly genocide, but "religicide" - there are a few arab christians

[perfect_fat]

I love how christians always use the old testament to justify barbaric acts. It also says in the bible that all adulterers are to be stoned. ANybody who works on a sunday is to be killed etc.

And the best part of all of this, is how christians alway say that theirs is a religion of love and peace, and how muslims are corrupt and evil for saying their book tells them they can kill.

Religion is the source of so much that is wrong in this world, and if anybody should be exterminated, it's the religious folk. The idea that we were given free will by something that demands we worship us is just ridiculous. To believe a god of infinte love and wisdom treats us as his play things is just beyond my comprehension. People don't fear God, they fear hell.

If there is a god, and christianity is his work, I don't even know if we'd be that much better off in heaven. He'd probably degrade us and make us worship him all day long. We'd be slaves, and he'd use us for his own enjoyment.

If he does exist, then he must really enjoy fucking with people, that's my take on it.

[Anticrombie0909]

Fat's got the right idea on some of his points. Chrisitanity is one violent religion. It's because the bible, by nature, basically says "if you do not believe in Christ, you go to hell." So therefore everyone who is not Christian is automatically destined for hell. So, say you're a devout Christian. Everyone around you who isn't, you know that they're not gonna have fun in the afterlife, burning down there. So you're either going to convert them- or destroy them, to prevent further people from going to hell.

I don't agree with that in the slightest, I'm just using that as an example to show why they might find genocide acceptable.

[COBOL]

Specforces u need to be a philosopher

[DracIV]

I agree that Christianity in particular is violent because of the "everyone must follow us because they are all eternally screwed otherwise" idea. If you ask me, killing someone because they are going to hell is idiotic. If I am gonna go to hell, why would you prevent me from enjoying all the pleasant times I have left? If god was truly wise, kind and/or merciful, he would have sterilized them all. When they are sterilized, the new sinners problem doesn't exist and you let the people enjoy what they have left before eternal pain. Since he didn't, that makes me think that either he, hell, or that section is fake.

[alainbryden]

Originally Posted by COBOL

Specforces u need to be a philosopher

Oh yes. Definately a choice career [/sarcasm]

He already is a philosopher, it's not something you do, it's something you are, on the side of what you do, or don't do I suppose.

[Specforces]

Thanks for that observation alainbryden, a philosopher is just something you are, not something you get payed for(most of the time anyway )

Specforces

[mike100]

Specforces IS a philosopher. THE philosopher. Alpha Philosopher. Joe Philosopher. El Philosophore...and so on.


oh and Capitan Philosopher.

[mike100]

u guys know about the genocide in ummm...damnit. it's somewhere in africa.

*edit*

Sudan.

[Specforces]

I like Capitan Philosopher the best.

Specforces

[perfect_fat]

I hate to tell you guys, but this post is more of a theological research project than a philosophy paper. Anyways......

Fuck em all. We're all gonna die soon enough anyways. I want some cookies... *looks for cookies*

Hmm, interesting that you pin all this on Christianity, when Judaism also believes in the exact same scripture....

And you selectively ignore the verses in the Gospels where Jesus explicitly tells people "Hey, times are different now, so I expect more love instead of hatred and violence from you."

You use outdated doctrine as a way of attacking a religion that has moved beyond said doctrine. Not every command in the Old Testament is obeyed by Christians, because Jesus told us to move beyond such pettiness. The people were ready to do that in Jesus' time - they weren't recently converted pagans like in the Torah.

[Anonymous]

Originally Posted by chardish

Hmm, interesting that you pin all this on Christianity, when Judaism also believes in the exact same scripture....

And you selectively ignore the verses in the Gospels where Jesus explicitly tells people "Hey, times are different now, so I expect more love instead of hatred and violence from you."

You use outdated doctrine as a way of attacking a religion that has moved beyond said doctrine. Not every command in the Old Testament is obeyed by Christians, because Jesus told us to move beyond such pettiness. The people were ready to do that in Jesus' time - they weren't recently converted pagans like in the Torah.

You use an outdated doctrine to prove that god exists, and that's ok.

The faithful do not need proof that God exists.

[aleco]

You use an anonymous post to conceal your identity.
How can anyone prove that God exists anyway?
As Chardish said, the faithful believe without proof.

[Omeganitros]

Originally Posted by Specforces

I like Capitan Philosopher the best.

Specforces

Sorry, Sun Tzu already too that title. But I'll tell ya what. You make a book better than The Art Of War, and I'll see what I can do. In the mean time, how about 1st Class Lieutenant Philosopher?

[Specforces]

Hmm, it'll have to do.

Just to let everyone know, regardless of my posts, I believe in God, and I consider myself Christian.

Specforces