TWG CLXV - The Wine In Front Of Me - Game Thread

[Litodude]

me,
doesn't like suns, indheart, yoshl, chary, rbx
likes freezin, choof, shadow
tolerating mellon, haku

goodnight

[thesunfan]

I think Lito having more doesn't likes than likes is somewhat townie
wolves don't tend to have lists of suspects that are that long

[FreezinIce]

my read pivoting from d0 has sunfan as town so far

[FreezinIce]

Originally Posted by thesunfan

a clean, quick, and probably accurate conclusion
since Yoshl has continued to pursue this would be interested what Freezin has to say about that

ill read it in depth tomorrow im tired and gotta get up at freaking 5am

[Hakulyte]

Well, who cares about sleep.

Going to dig quotes and explain D0 EoD because no one feels like working.

[Hakulyte]

Disclaimer: This post contains self-pity at one spot. If you're not ready for it, skip it and continue with the questions. (hopefully this is the last post in the entire game with that)

Originally Posted by thesunfan

this is making me think Haku is just crumbing from the pressure as a wolf here tbh
I'm not going to vote him but that is really not a good reaction and I don't really see this as a normal Haku response given that Charu/Grad/Yoshl were all going to vote for him at the start of this phase

@Sunfan; I'd like to ask you why you do these kind of things. Why do you think something is wolfy, but you don't follow up?
If you're paying attention, others kept pushing and there was room to do something here. I don't understand why you feel the need to be so careful.

----

@Charu; #243 This could be a decent attempt at breaking my world, but without explaining why you said "hmmmm", it makes wonder if you really care. Mostly NAI sadly.

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Originally Posted by thesunfan

I mean
when the next game is going I'd be over it by then
but I would be PISSED that Haku got lynched that early regardless of his alignment

@Sunfan; Why not push me here to see if I actually implode? You did it in Turbo X, why not here? What is different?

Originally Posted by thesunfan

literally smh irl

@Sunfan; Tokzic was here.

Originally Posted by thesunfan

that's not what Haku is saying, I think
do you know what the blindreper treatment is?

@Sunfan; Why you never explained?

Originally Posted by Charu

The most you can get in a preface is get a neutral reaction, and that's only if you think the setup calls for it.

And even then, it's got to be good and about the actual setup. Not about you and you alone, that's not a good preface, that's a preface that could be seen as scummy (which people have said a lot now).

Coupled with the pressure and your reactionary posts do not make your image look good for this game, fam.

===Warning Self-Pity===

@Charu; You didn't ask for this, but I'm going to try to explain my headspace for the early game part that made most of you go ???

There was many ways to deal with my entrance. Sunfan did the most friendly one by explaining to me why it made little sense as in "you can't force others into a box" etc. explanation. YoshL made me get legit angry and that's one way to deal with me, but if there's something worse than bad posts by Haku, it's bad posts by a frustrated Haku. It makes me take below Haku tier decisions such as hard claiming straight up at the beginning of the game and you're also stuck with a bunch of one liners that are simply not fun to read. I don't believe that's TWG. I believe it's anger blinding the rationale and I'm not surprised that Gradiant replaced out. (..and yes, the self-pity/game approach I had here did not deliver at all. What I'm trying to achieve with my posts and what others seems to expect from me keeps being different. Players think I'm trying to be perceived a certain way while I'm playing on lvl1 and I usually use lvl1 for baiting/prodding/answering quick questions. If you want solid answers to more vague development questions, be ready for me taking more time than the average player, but if I drop lvl1 for lvl2 it also means my activity will drop substantially. I usually prefer to try to answer everything on the go, but I realize now that it's making me drop posting quality dramatically. So, I apologize for that. I should try to control myself better. I just had hopefully wrongful assumptions that I'm getting free hate instead of game related hate and I didn't take it well.)

I usually move up a level the moment I have time to breathe and think at what I'm trying to express. I got this habit of writing my thoughts at the entrance of this game, but also at the entrance of D1 for this very reason. I'm also completely digging the idea of changing how I play to something extremely basic like bolding text and writing "...", but part of me wanted to try to have fun with "chaos" and it's just not something that people seems to want. So, that's about it for why I've been posting the way I did. I don't know if you guys tried to read my game as if you were me, but the amount of posts that has little to do with game progression, but more about frustration has been unnecessary high. Regardless, I still believe that this game has room for being fun and I want to believe that most of this "not fun" phase is over.

Did that help solve the game? Probably not, but at least I feel better.

===End of Self-Pity===

Originally Posted by Charu

Innocent child usually is announced first thing, so we know that's just not a thing at all this game.

Leave 3/4 options left.

That's a really weird assumption. OP doesn't have information about declaring that the game will contain IC. It's only saying that it's a possible choice.

From the link in OP:

At any time during the game, you may PM the moderator and he or she will announce you as an Innocent Child in their next post, confirming you as town.

Originally Posted by Charu

Not standard IC mechanics, but it's definitely a role I don't think a wolf would give town.

...

#502 Curious progression for Litodude imo.

Followed by:

Originally Posted by Litodude

i do because i win games with intelligence not stupid feels on text

those would be the weakest roles

I think he's just trying to pretend that this is an acceptable stance. The truth is that you need both. It makes me believe that the whole setup info part was fabricated with Charu to give a sense that the game progressed. As for how they read players, there's zero information here. I think talking about the setup is a good indirect way to see the stance of the other players for PR hunting. Even if you "solve" what the choices are here, you won't really know what you're playing with 100% until it flips or that some night actions + claims happen.

Originally Posted by Charu

And playing the game with stupid feels on text is one way to play the game. Usually doesn't net the correct reads, but it's a good gauge to see initial impressions of everyone.

For instance, I'm not getting anything off of you, but I got a gut that says you're probably town since you're the first to come up with this.

...

Or it could mean you're a wolf since you know those are the weakest roles and you're only pretending right now to not know what roles are, but I don't think that's happening right now.

@Charu; This insistance of "I think you're town, but not really" sounds really bad for me.

Originally Posted by thesunfan

he does that to everyone, I pinky promise

you have kind of the bad kind of self-centered play (thinking no one else is reading your posts last game when everyone was, thinking Gradiant focuses on you)

relax, we're all here to have a good time and/or shit on Hakulyte apparently

This is not happening every game. If it's happening this game, it's for a reason. It's because you and other players are making most of the game about that instead of solving the game itself.
This is a filler to oblivion. Your headspace should be into solving the game, not saying how others are not playing within your expectations.

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#525 @Sunfan; You didn't feel like explaining why you posted that even if Tokzic voted you for it?

Originally Posted by Litodude

i am on post 9 but wanted to say now haku is a human there's no way he would risk that much spotlight with a cop (i'm assuming exists see my post), and cardflipping.

also haku is zoom last month was way too nervous to pull this shit off i'm pretty sure he would die of stress

I don't get what you mean by "Haku is zoom".
I'm surprised I straight up jumped to "really has to be town" from that post alone.

Originally Posted by Litodude

outside of quotes, raeko/lightknight were my amongst my highest suspects again, because no phantom = being UTR is a valid wolf strat. also call it angle shooting or w/e but i saw lightknight last night reading the thread without posting and that's always been valid in my assessment of suspicious as fuck

PR hunting in action-

Originally Posted by Litodude

idk if u are able to follow my line of thinking i wanna say freezin and haku are most human, i feel like expanding further right now would only provide a disservice for various reasons (mainly, it'll be tumultuous) but i will explain my rationale before eod

Withholding information should be unnecessary in a game.
If it's information that cannot be said, it should simply not be said in the first place.

Originally Posted by Charu

Since he was called out for being bad, he wants to make it up, I know the feel.

Would say human, but his stink earlier still smells and I don't think any amount of making amends would change that little aspect.

Also, Hakuuuuuuuuu, you said you would make a case against YoshL. That mega post is not a case, that's just you responding with a level head (kudos by the way, lol). I'm not getting anything new from you or YoshL with your mega post. Just that it's still pretty clear that YoshL hates you more or less and finds you scummy for your first post and reactions.



But this is more or less a good start right here. It's a bit wordy, but it's pretty much what lito said after. Could be a wolf feigning anger to intentionally unbalance you to make not so good posts. Though I believe all I saw was actual anger and not a wolf trying to manipulate. If it was a wolf, then kudos for looking real YoshL, lol.

I don't know if you see the thinking pattern here but it's like "I think you're human, but not really. ...and it's because of what you did before".

Well, if that's the case, why you bring this up specifically instead of something that could give us a clue about where you stand? Is the intention here to tell us how confused you are? like wtf Charu. Why am I here with your headspace?

He seems to encourage me regardless to continue on YoshL, but at this point it makes me feel like it's a dead end. The game should not be about me trying to solve everything. It should be about players trying to see things from the same perspective. This is disturbing. I cannot even begin to describe why you would think like that.

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#540 @Litodude - YoshL being here is not wolfy. It's a good thing.

Originally Posted by Charu

I said it was a reason for his statement that quote is referencing. It doesn't mean we "found out", just a reason to explain his reaction.

I currently see Haku as a mixbag of town and scum. (Null essentially) Gut strongly suggest town due to recent actions.

That is such a small progression that I can hardly believe you even care about your own progression on me.

Taking a break, I'm only at page 29, but the point is that I'm failing to see any relevant game progression attempts by Sunfan/Charu/Litodude and it's really strange.

---

I'm tempted to let roundbox analyze D0 EoD.

My EoD conclusions are around the lines of;

choof was confused and unvoted because of the PR claim. (more town than not imo)

mellonxcollie seems to express a similar opinion as mine over Sunfan based on how she voted. If your view is different, feel free to explain how.

Sunfan didn't move at all from FreezinIce. (not sure why, the backup post was convincing enough for me. I can see him legit preparing text in advance feeling that he will get lynched. I don't see why he would leave a premade read list right before "flipping" as a wolf. I think this comes from a town based on his progression. I can also see why he's coming out with that very specific list.

I think Sunfan thought he was going to get away with staying alive in this EoD because of who was on his wagon and that Litodude was unlikely to stay on him if they're together. He still posted a read list, but I really disagree with the second half.

As for the 7 players on the Tokzic wagon, it's hard to grasp what happened for everyone in details, but I can't ignore the fact that Litodude started it.

----

I'll try to squeeze Page 30 up to the end of D0 somewhere else in one post if anyone is interested.

Going to sleep for now v2.

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

Well, who cares about sleep.

Going to dig quotes and explain D0 EoD D0 in general because no one feels like working.

ftfy

Well, I did quickly talk about D0 EoD at the end, but I haven't looked at vote progression in details etc.

So, there's more.

[Hakulyte]

Some of these quotes are not necessary about me. Make sure to click on the to get the context right.

I didn't think about commenting about who was talking to who everywhere.

[ShadoWolfe]

Dead tired, slept all of 3 hrs. Got stuff in an hour.
EoD was pretty terrible. I can't comprehend how we had 2 PRs somehow get so comfortable with the idea of being blue that they decide to hardly post anything at all. Like, avoiding a nightkill is one thing, but there's gotta be a balance to circumvent town consequences.
Tokz softed but I didn't believe him and didn't have time to analyze it in the heat of the moment, especially after lightknight claimed. I think I'm going to have to look at Freezin a lot closer today, and consequently lito. I think sunfan basically proved himself town by not taking advantage of Tokzic's blue soft, unless he's somehow masterful enough to maintain his vote on Freezin and repeatedly ask people to join him despite an easy blue mislynch (from wolf perspective Tokz's soft basically confirms him blue or unlikely b8)

Ohwell, enough about EoD for now. I'ma read up. Got 40 minutes left so lets make this count

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by YoshL

haku are you claiming to be a power role with that text

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

Nope.

Then why's it blatantly blue and bold in the same style you just used for the two PRs? I agree with YoshL; it really seems like a bad "soft"

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by choof

THEHN WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING ASJDKHFALKJSEHR LAKSHJEGR

Lolthis 100% 💯 💯 🔥

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by choof

i'm lowkey thinking that litodude knew exactly what he was doing when he cfd'd'd'd tokzic

I thought this at first because of Tokz' soft, but his vote was before lightknight claimed so it was an unlikely wagon to succeed and it's not like he took advantage of the chaos after the claim. I'm liking him less, but mainly for giving freezin such a perfect soft defense. His vote could be intentionally because of the soft, but I don't think he could've expected the outcome to pan out the way it did.

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

Did you forget my hard claim D0?

Oh yeah. That's a thing. Okayy I'll reluctantly accept this

[Lightknight924]

THEY CALL ME PUMPKIN JONES

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by Charu

To say lito had any lead with his "vote" is silly. Take a look at his vote during the last 30 or so minutes, did anyone follow him before light outed?

... We've been mindmelding a lot this game.

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by YoshL

because no townsperson knew whether a jailkeeper existed or not.

only wolves have access to the knowledge of whatever the PRs out there are.

haku posting that immediately at 12:01 makes me believe he has that extra knowledge that wolves have

This is a good point. I considered it between lightknight flipping cop, or no nightkill either because jailed or because wolf lightknight wanted to make it look like he was jailed.

That post's certainty and timing is iffy, despite Haku's propensity to write stuff ahead

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

Litodude said the setup was exactly Tracker, One Shot Cop, Jailkeeper.

I'm trolling him.

Haku also can't say he didn't consider jailkeeper. You were so sure of lightknight924 dying that you wrote up a whole post trolling the dude who said there was a JK. Why?
Hakulyte until I read a decent explanation

[FreezinIce]

indheart

Not feeling very good about you atm want to come in and try to fix that? Thoughts on eod and explanation of your progressions would be a start

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by Charu

Right, and since no one else died, we can assume the vigi doesn't exist either.

So...

Surprise surprise, someone is probably the Innocent Child.

Charming

Originally Posted by choof

2-shot vigi is way op too there's no chance imo of us having one unless the wolves have massive cocks

I wouldn't be too sure of that, you guys. D0 was chaos and vigi shots are better used with more info. If we don't see one this upcoming nightphase then sure, but I wouldn't assume anything until you see either 2 kills or a modpost clearing a player.

[mellonxcollie]

Personally I would like to hear more from Roundbox. He said it himself with

Originally Posted by roundbox

the only problem that arises with these big posts is I miss what's going on actively in the thread

His player-by-player posts were relatively detailed and well thought out, however I think this is a good wolf strategy for faking reads as you don't have to think on the fly or interact with the thread in real time really.

He also said

Originally Posted by roundbox

both wagons are probably town
game fuckin sucks

yet ended up voting for them both anyway

I didn't feel a huge thread presence from him last phase (pot calling kettle black I know) so I'd just like to see some more from him if possible within the next day or so