Rock Band 2

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by Squeek

Wow, chill out.

All you have to do is look in the patent registry to see if a patent exists for your product, or hire a patent lawyer to do it for you. It takes very little time to verify that nothing else exists in the patent registry.

For whatever reason, these companies either aren't trying hard enough to look for patents or aren't even bothering with them, and they're getting sued for it. All you have to do is spend a little time looking, find out if there's a patent, ask the patent owner if you can make something based on the patent, settle for an amount of money to pay them, then go for it. It'll be a lot less than what the courts will fine you for if they find you guilty of patent infringement.

brb filing a patent on "thing made of matter" so everyone will have to pay me money

Some things shouldn't be allowed to be patented. What if they allowed the idea of putting a drink into a container be patented. What if they allowed the basic principle behind chairs to be patented. What if someone owned a patent for "time keeping device to be worn on a person's wrist"?

This is nothing like what happened with DDR and ITG. ITG's gameplay was literally a clone. This relationship between Harmonix's work and Konami's is more like PIU:DDR. If anything, Activision should be suing Harmonix for the guitar portion of the game being exactly the same (although that would be pretty ****ty considering Harmonix created the concept). Simple gameplay of Rock Band is NOTHING like anything Konami has ever done, except for the very basic concept of "simulated instrument game".

The point I'm trying to make is that such a patent shouldn't even be allowed to exist. It's contradictory to the very idea of the rhythm game genre and suggests that anyone creating a instrument-centric video game needs to go to Konami to get permission. That is stupid as hell.

[Squeek]

And, until Guitar Hero, how many non-Konami instrument-centric games have there been? And how many of those two games do you think paid off Konami for the rights to the concept?

Arbitrary patents aren't allowed, like your patenting matter thing, but this is hardly arbitrary.

Remember Immersion? They patented rumble controllers. Nintendo's use of rumble was unique and not associated with the patent, but Sony and Microsoft's "ideas" ended up being very similar to the patent, so they lost. Microsoft chose the smart route and settled out of court. Sony went to court and lost millions of dollars and rumble for their latest console until they found a way to make controllers rumble without infringing on Nintendo's patents OR Immersion's, or requesting permission to use their ideas in their controllers. They chose to use Immersion's ideas, and once it was settled, they could finally get rumble onto the PS3.

So yes. This one company patented force feedback, and you must pay them if you want to use their idea or spend a lot of time thinking of a way to circumvent the patent and hope you don't get caught. Harmonix got caught. Now it's up to the patent courts to decide whether or not it's really a violation of the patent or not.

I can't read patent law nor can I even come close to understanding the patent language itself, so I can't tell you my opinion on the matter. Just know that most patent lawsuits fall through, either because the issuer drops the lawsuit or the judge rules in favor of the defendant.

You're not alone in what you think, but you know the way our Government works. It'll never change.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patents#Criticism

"Patents have also been criticized for conferring a "negative right" upon a patent owner, permitting them to exclude competitors from using or exploiting the invention, even if the competitor subsequently develops the same invention independently. This may be subsequent to the date of invention, or to the priority date, depending upon the relevant patent law (see First to file and first to invent). [12]"

Copyrights are different though. If you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you never had any knowledge of the item in question that you are accused of copying, you can get off scot-free. So if two people write the same book, but have never even seen each other, let alone live in the same country, they both can have the rights to the same book.

That's why despite all the idiots who claim coldplay rips off some indie underground fagband, there's no way they could win a court case against them. How can you prove that coldplay heard your crappy-ass song, loved it, and decided to rip it off? Good luck there.

[omega_grunt666]

Originally Posted by EnR

I'd still rather buy GH4, Guitar Hero always has better music.

especially true if rb2 doesnt include a music creation mode..

the only reason its coming out so soon is that it is basically the same game, with different songs. [guitar hero aerosmith anyone?] from what ive seen it doesnt offer much more.

i like to compare it like this..

Rockband 1 to 2, is like guitar hero 3 to aerosmith
while
Guitar Hero 3 to 4 is like counter-strike 1.6 to source

[Afrobean]

Squeek, your rumble example is totally different. What Konami has done is tandamount to if the original rumbling company had simply made a patent on "handheld input device with vibrating capability", and no matter what Nintendo or Microsoft or Sony did, if they made a controller that rumbled, it'd be an infringement. Like you said, it's possible to create a controller that rumbles without using the same idea as the original, but it's not possible to create a instrument-centric game such as Rock Band without apparently infringing on Konami's patent.

ps thanks for the wikipedia article:

Patents may hinder innovation as well in the case of "troll" entities. A holding company, pejoratively known as a "patent troll", owns a portfolio of patents, and sues others for infringement of these patents while doing little to develop the technology itself. [13]

When was the last time Konami released a US instrument centric rhythm game? I guess you could call BMUS, but is that really an instrument?

pps after some digging, I found something ****EN HILARIOUS:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DrumMania

Konami has not mass produced an American version of DrumMania, primarily since MTV Games holds the US patent for "drum simulation games", which MTV took full advantage of with the release of Rock Band.

That's a mind**** if I ever heard one.

[Telvanni_guard]

Originally Posted by omega_grunt666

the only reason its coming out so soon is that it is basically the same game, with different songs. [guitar hero aerosmith anyone?] from what ive seen it doesnt offer much more.

Band World Tour. Solo Bass Career. Improved instruments...


If they just wanted to release more songs, they could have done that through DLC like they've been doing.

[Squeek]

Originally Posted by Afrobean

That's a mind**** if I ever heard one.

And that's why none of us should ever aim to be lawyers.

[EnR]

From those pictures in dores link, looks like Panic Attack is official O.o....YES

[ddranthony92]

Wow...so that drum set looks a lot bigger/better, I wonder how much more its gonna be.

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by ddranthony92

Wow...so that drum set looks a lot bigger/better, I wonder how much more its gonna be.

300$

You can preorder them already.

I was looking forward to getting a second guitar, but now I'm not so sure. I might just pick up the standalone game and this new set and make due with the old guitar, assuming, of course, that I don't spring for the amazing for-reals guitar (which, I only will get if it's just like how I hope it will be... no news on it yet though). But then again, the new guitar alone looks amazing, even the standard issue one. Do they sell packages with the game and just one instrument?

ps the set thing says there will be an option for a second pedal, but I am pretty darn sure that is for if you use it as a kit with a brain, NOT supported in RB2. It also says that it only comes with 2 cymbals with an option for a 3rd. I'm gonna be down nearly 400 bucks by the time I'm out of this...

[dore]

It's an extra 350 for the brain, FYI. I'll probably get a real kit before this.

[Gibson63]

....... ( you know what i mean) all those OMG GH4.. OMG ROCKBAND 2......

[ddranthony92]

$300 for better pads, 3 cymbals,a better (stock) pedal(maybe, I'm guessing) and a electronic drum set, is a pretty good deal, except, I have a real drums set and I'm trying to add more cymbals and whatnot to it, and The sock mod is working fine for me right now, so right now, I'm only gonna get the game itself.

[Squeek]

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/36037.html

Pretty much the best song choice possible in advertising how great Rock Band 2 will be.

If only it weren't so ridiculously expensive.

[Afrombean]

Originally Posted by dore

It's an extra 350 for the brain, FYI. I'll probably get a real kit before this.

Wow, that sucks. If the additional cymbals can be attached to the standard issue set, I might just get one of them instead. If the quad formation is still bugging me that much even with the cymbals added, I'll mod my own formation.

$300 for better pads,

The standard set will also have better pads, and will likely retail for less than 100$.

3 cymbals

The ion kit only comes with TWO cymbals. You can add a third, but it's a separate addition.

a better (stock) pedal(maybe, I'm guessing)

The standard pedal is metal reinforced too. In fact, I think I'd prefer the standard issue kick pedal, because the Ion kit one is free floating, and relies on velcro or something to stay in place.

and a electronic drum set, is a pretty good deal

Like I said, you can get a quality basic edrum kit for about 700$. Compare that to this, which is:

• 300$ for pads and 2 cymbals
• 350$ for brain
• unknown amount for 3rd cymbal and 2nd foot pedal

Compare that to what you'd be getting for 700$ for a kit purposed as an instrument instead of a controller:

• same amount of drum head pads, presumably same or better quality than RB2 pads
• 3 cymbals
• the hi hat cymbal is functioned to appear and work as a hihat would, unlike the RB2 one which will be physically identical in functionality to the ones you would use as ride or crash
• a 2nd foot pedal for the hihat is a given

[ddranthony92]

^

Thats why, I'll just stay with my real drum set and maybe buy the RB2 package, I'm not sure yet,but I'm deff. buying the game.

[Tokzic]

Remember too, Afro, that most e-drum kits don't have pedals that work the way Rock Band's do. They usually come with a ****ty pedal and a pad where the bass hits. You'd eat the charge for a real double bass pedal with a real e-drum kit, too.

[Afrombean]

Originally Posted by Tokzic

Remember too, Afro, that most e-drum kits don't have pedals that work the way Rock Band's do. They usually come with a ****ty pedal and a pad where the bass hits. You'd eat the charge for a real double bass pedal with a real e-drum kit, too.

I'm not a fan of double bass anyway.

If I was buying a kit, left pedal would be hihat, right pedal would be kick. Period.

But those kits are modular usually I think. If I ever decided I wanted to double bass, I could go buy that module and hook it up.

[Nickels000]

/convinced

Rock Band 2 it is.

[ddr_f4n]

Final songlist confirmed, all original recordings!

Originally Posted by press release

Rock Band 2 On-Disc Track List:
Artist Song Title Decade
1. AC/DC “Let There Be Rock” 1970s
2. AFI “Girl’s Gone Grey” 2000’s
3. Alanis Morissette “You Oughta Know” 1990’s
4. Alice in Chains “Man in the Box” 1990’s
5. Allman Brothers “Ramblin’ Man” 1970’s
6. Avenged Sevenfold “Almost Easy” 2000’s
7. Bad Company “Shooting Star” 1970’s
8. Beastie Boys “So Whatcha Want” 1990’s
9. Beck “E-Pro” 2000’s
10. Bikini Kill “Rebel Girl” 1990’s
11. Billy Idol “White Wedding Pt. I” 1980’s
12. Blondie “One Way or Another” 1970’s
13. Bob Dylan “Tangled Up in Blue” 1970’s
14. Bon Jovi “Livin’ on a Prayer” 1980’s
15. Cheap Trick “Hello There” 1970’s
16. Devo “Uncontrollable Urge” 1980’s
17. Dinosaur Jr. “Feel the Pain” 1990’s
18. Disturbed “Down with the Sickness” 2000’s
19. Dream Theater “Panic Attack” 2000’s
20. Duran Duran “Hungry Like the Wolf” 1980’s
21. Elvis Costello “Pump It Up” 1970’s
22. Fleetwood Mac “Go Your Own Way” 1970’s
23. Foo Fighters “Everlong” 1990’s
24. Guns N’ Roses “Shackler’s Revenge” 2000’s
25. Interpol “PDA” 2000’s
26. Jane’s Addiction “Mountain Song” 1980’s
27. Jethro Tull “Aqualung” 1970’s
28. Jimmy Eat World “The Middle” 2000’s
29. Joan Jett “Bad Reputation” 1980’s
30. Journey “Anyway You Want It” 1970’s
31. Judas Priest “Painkiller” 1990’s
32. Kansas “Carry On Wayward Son” 1970’s
33. L7 “Pretend We’re Dead” 1990’s
34. Lacuna Coil “Our Truth” 2000’s
35. Linkin Park “One Step Closer” 2000’s
36. Lit “My Own Worst Enemy” 1990’s
37. Lush “De-Luxe” 1990’s
38. Mastodon “Colony of Birchmen” 2000’s
39. Megadeth “Peace Sells” 1980’s
40. Metallica “Battery” 1980’s
41. Mighty Mighty Bosstones “Where’d You Go” 1990’s
42. Modest Mouse “Float On” 2000’s
43. Motorhead “Ace of Spades” 1980’s
44. Nirvana “Drain You” 1990’s
45. Norman Greenbaum “Spirit in the Sky” 1960’s
46. Panic at the Disco “Nine in the Afternoon” 2000’s
47. Paramore “That’s What You Get” 2000’s
48. Pearl Jam “Alive” 1990’s
49. Presidents of the USA “Lump” 1990’s
50. Rage Against the Machine “Testify” 1990’s
51. Ratt “Round & Round” 1980’s
52. Red Hot Chili Peppers “Give it Away” 1990’s
53. Rise Against “Give it All” 2000’s
54. Rush “The Trees” 1970’s
55. Silversun Pickups “Lazy Eye” 2000’s
56. Smashing Pumpkins “Today” 1990’s
57. Social Distortion “I Was Wrong” 1990’s
58. Sonic Youth “Teenage Riot” 1980’s
59. Soundgarden “Spoonman” 1990’s
60. Squeeze “Cool for Cats” 1970’s
61. Steely Dan “Bodhitsattva” 1970’s
62. Steve Miller Band “Rock’n Me” 1970’s
63. Survivor “Eye of the Tiger” 1980’s
64. System of a Down “Chop Suey” 2000’s
65. Talking Heads “Psycho Killer” 1970’s
66. Tenacious D “Master Exploder” 2000’s
67. Testament “Souls of Black” 1990’s
68. The Donnas “New Kid in School” 2000’s
69. The Go-Go’s “We Got the Beat” 1980’s
70. The Grateful Dead “Alabama Getaway” 1980’s
71. The Guess Who “American Woman” 1970’s
72. The Muffs “Kids in America” 1990’s
73. The Offspring “Come Out & Play (Keep ‘em Separated)” 1990’s
74. The Replacements “Alex Chilton” 1980’s
75. The Who “Pinball Wizard” 1960’s
Bonus Artist Bonus Song Title Decade
76. Abnormality “Visions” 2000’s
77. Anarchy Club “Get Clean” 2000’s
78. Bang Camaro “Night Lies” 2000’s
79. Breaking Wheel “Shoulder to the Plow” 2000’s
80. The Libyans “Neighborhood” 2000’s
81. The Main Drag “A Jagged Gorgeous Winter” 2000’s
82. Speck “Conventional Lover” 2000’s
83. The Sterns “Supreme Girl” 2000’s
84. That Handsome Devil “Rob the Prez-O-Dent” 2000’s

Furthermore, this list is comprised 100% of original recordings.

Source:
http://www.bemanistyle.com/index.php...soundtrack-857

O_o I'm sold to this game now.

BTW, the RB1 songs in RB2 is true, but you MUST HAVE RB1 to transfer the games. So if you never owned RB1, you won't get its songs.

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by ddr_f4n

BTW, the RB1 songs in RB2 is true, but you MUST HAVE RB1 to transfer the games. So if you never owned RB1, you won't get its songs.

Speaks the truth apparently..
http://kotaku.com/5025004/breaking-o...klist-revealed

Owners of the original Rock Band will have the ability to export most of the Rock Band disc tracks and upgrade them into Rock Band 2 gameplay-the first time ever in videogame history! [1]

I'm really curious about it now. "Most"? I guess maybe they really did have to set up new deals for it, and some didn't want to get carried along for the ride. I'd really like to know how they'll handle it so that a rental of the game won't be able to install the songs. Maybe they'll give a cease and desist to anyone who would have RB1 available to rent...? Can they do that?

Another thing I am guessing from this: cymbal use won't be optional. Wait, I know it sounds weird, let explain what I mean. I had a feeling that you would plug in the cymbal, but you could still hit the drum pad. But notice how it says it's "upgrade" them into RB2? I would guess this means that they'll be having cymbals supported in the song as a thing where if you choose to use them, you MUST use them. I'm just wondering how they'll denote this in the charts...

EDIT HOLY ****ING MONKEY BALLS CHRIST

I don't know if anyone else remembers, but I bought my Xbox360 JUST for Rock Band. I had to make up my mind to pick either PS3 and remain loyal to Sony who had great love for due to PS2, or to go with the "popular" choice. Well I picked 360, and guess what...

Rock Band 2 will make its debut on Xbox 360™ video game and entertainment system from Microsoft this September and have an exclusive launch window in North America. Rock Band 2 will be available for the PLAYSTATION® 3 and PlayStation® 2 computer entertainment systems and Wii™ later this year.

I BACKED THE WINNER MOTHER ****ER OH OH OH