The Brand New Top Players List

[Shashakiro]

Doesn't the whole bonus idea bring easy/offbeat songs into play, thus defeating the whole purpose of having this system in the first place?

And for the boo rule: it's only there to prevent outright mashing scores from getting points (like lump's EHHS). Having a pure score req is file IMO, since it's impossible to mash and have halfway decent PA.

I still don't agree with the 0/1-people-have-done-it reqs, by the way. Just because you're too lazy to make more frequent updates doesn't mean you should have essentially unreachable scores (for all but one person in some cases) as reqs. Remember, the reqs are standards, not some kind of ideal goals...that's why we don't have 8 or 9 point reqs for FC Molto/Revo or 28-point reqs for AAA'ing Revo. Yes, someone may do those eventually, and when two people do, then you make an update...until then, even considering those scores as feasible is a pointless endeavor, since the list is one hundred percent relative. If no one has gotten a req, then it may as well not be there at all.

Trying to make the reqs static and unchanging is impossible and worthless. If you aren't willing to update as often as you need to make this accurate, then it's just not going to be accurate, and we may as well go back to the purely subjective ranking lists.

[scottish]

Well not really. I would think the bonus covers, yes a majority of the easy AAA's, but it also covers the 3-4's. We agree'd that there should be some credit given out for getting at least a certain number of AAA's and your avg. It would defeat the purpose if the bonus was higher than it is. Let's say we gave out 50 points for 100 AAA's, that would be bogus. 15 points max for both average and AAA's isn't too bad, and gives people a little extra points for songs that are not included in the list because of too low of a difficulty.

[bill_clinton]

Rofl, wtf happened

[Shashakiro]

Originally Posted by scottish

Well not really. I would think the bonus covers, yes a majority of the easy AAA's, but it also covers the 3-4's. We agree'd that there should be some credit given out for getting at least a certain number of AAA's and your avg. It would defeat the purpose if the bonus was higher than it is. Let's say we gave out 50 points for 100 AAA's, that would be bogus. 15 points max for both average and AAA's isn't too bad, and gives people a little extra points for songs that are not included in the list because of too low of a difficulty.

"Bonus" is an incredibly misleading word. Since these points are factored in to the tier point reqs same as anything else, they're really requirements, not "bonus" points. Which essentially means that whoring something like Zelda/TfB for the AAA is all of a sudden part of a req and will get you more points on this list, which I still say defeats the purpose of having the list--Average Rank alone tells you all you need if you want to factor in that stuff.

If you want AAA's on 3-4's to be worth more, put them in as reqs. There's no need to make AAA's suddenly fulfil multiple requirements--and there's also no reason for 3.5's and 4's to be excluded from the list entirely. I don't think anyone is overly bored by those songs to the point where they flat-out refuse to play them, which is the only reason Average Rank isn't accurate to begin with.

[scottish]

True, but not forgetting my initial list was rejected because half of the songs were too easy. No one complained about this list until P4U and "no" 4's were included. I mean, we can add some more songs, but max will be worth 3 points. Considering if we add even 10 4's, that would equal 30 points for a max, which is the exact same thing you would get for both AAA's and Avg.

[Shashakiro]

Again, AAA's and Avg take offbeat 2's/3's into account as well, something we really need to avoid. I don't really think you truly believe that those should be reqs of any kind.

If you want to use 3.5's and 4's as 1/2/3-pointers, go for it. I see no problem with it. I start having problems when you throw in 2's, 2.5's, and 3's (aka AAA/average rank count), since total crap like 100 BB starts getting factored in, and that has nothing to do with these lists at all.

And what does any of this have to do with P4U? I thought that was removed because the background is impossible for some to deal with, which is a reasonable enough reason for it to stay removed IMO.

[Hr2]

I just noticed this today, going to work myself into Tier 4...

Just quickly analyzing my rank list I have like 35 points, and I haven't even played 10-15 of those songs.

[jimerax]

I rejected Lv4 songs because the calculation was too complicated at that time.

Now I'm planning for adding 21 Lv4 songs (except for Synes) and 11 offsync songs.
Basically 2 or 3 pts for AAA, 1 or 2 pts for under 5.

I still need opinions for getting back P4U.
Ave/AAA bouns will remain, since playing all FFR songs (with good scores) is worth some points.

[Shashakiro]

So you really think that 100 BB or FF7 should be a req?

In that case, why is this system any better than simply using Average Rank by itself?

[scottish]

Very true shash, I haven't heard that from Jim yet. I only think a limited amount of 4's should be added, maybe 5-10, the more difficult 4's. Other than that, I don't know about adding threes and under. I would think it should be left at 5 and above, with a small bonus for other songs. It's not that big of a deal, but heh, maybe I can look into it.

[stlunatic0124]

Shash is 100% right. This is getting closer and closer to just going by average rank as a determinant for skill. I'm not just saying that because I don't have a low avg rank or a lot of AAAs because I'll have enough AAA's eventually. If you have a lot of AAA's you're going to have a low average rank. But that's besides the point.

[scottish]

Hmm, I'll talk this over with Jim and Jam, rofl, and see what they have to say about this too. I don't know, I thought it was a good idea at the time of putting it into effect, but if you think it's going to interfere with actual skill for the list, then we will remove it.

[jimerax]

OK 3 choices then..

(1) All AAAs/PA scores that are worth 1 point will be added. If we add them AAA/Ave bonus will be meaningless because they are kind of double-count, so they will be taken off.

(2) like 10-20 Lv4 song will be just added to current system, AAA/Ave bonus will remain.

(3) like 10-20 Lv4 song will be added to current system, and AAA/Ave bonus will be taken off.

[Shashakiro]

Option 3 IMO.

Also, this is one area where I don't have a bias, since I do happen to have the most AAA's and the lowest average...so yea.

[jimerax]

Yea that's one idea.

The only problem is that someone might complain like "(insert Lv4 or under song that's hard to PA) AAA is way harder than CIA FC, so defenitely worth points!"

[dawg4321]

I don't mean to complain but I know i have more than 61. I'll send a new list and you can check it if ya want, but i'm sure i'm in the high 60's if not 70's.

[scottish]

I can check that for you right now.

[itmorr]

I wasn't supposed to be on the new list though. Oh well; you win this round, but you have yet to win the war!!

[Vote4Nixon]

Originally Posted by Shashakiro

And for the boo rule: it's only there to prevent outright mashing scores from getting points (like lump's EHHS). Having a pure score req is file IMO, since it's impossible to mash and have halfway decent PA.

That's what I am hoping for, however, if we go simply by score, then the score requirements would have to be adjusted slightly to incorporate a boo rule. The FC score requirements seem fine because they promote not just an FC, but an FC with good PA. On the other hand, the score requirements for non-AAA, non-FC scores need to be adjusted (ie -100 to allow 5 boos). The question is how much should it be adjusted...should it be the same for each song? What is the maximum we can allow (I think -300 is around the difference between a good and a perfect, so no more than that)?

Also, as far as the bonus is concerned, I agree with Shash that currently it's not a well-implemented idea since it's not treated as a bonus. For instance, 50-59 AAAs = 4 pts, which could be achieved from songs in the 1-4 difficulty range, is equivalent to something like 30 goods or less on Silence, even though a player may be able to achieve those AAAs without even being able to combo Silence. However, I like the idea of "bonus" points...it makes this whole thing more appealing and promotes well-roundedness (aside from easy offbeat ****). In addition to Jim's 3 choices, perhaps one solution is to set a non-bonus Tier requirement for each Tier (ie Tier 4 = 50 pts, no more than 4 from bonus section). That way, the bonus really acts more like a bonus.

[dawg4321]

I send my list to ya scott. Just saying in case you haven't looked yet