Type 1 Civilization?

DevilsTouch · 05-21-2009, 12:26 AM

What are your thoughts on whether or not human civilization makes it to a "Type 1 Civilization"?

Michio Kaku has spoken of how the transformation from a Type 0(which is what we are now) to a Type 1 Civilization, is the hardest of all. It is also the most significant, because of many things, such as technology. I feel that our ways of communication might be sophisticated enough by than to be acknowledged by some form of highly intelligent alien race that use a much higher level of communication than we do today.

I want to know what you guys think. Will we destroy ourselves before we make that transformation? Do we have what it takes to make it? If not, explain why and feel free to debate and give me something to read when im bored.

Slinky

**DossarLX ODI** · 05-21-2009, 08:23 AM

You can definitely try to change technology but you can't change people.

If you put a harsh law like the death penalty for simple things, other people would probably fight back due to unfair laws.

You can help try to change people's interpretation of certain situations such as war and etc. but you can't just use force to persuade. Using force can aggravate people and they might try to track you down.

Use the nuclear weapons construction taking place for an example; instead of extensive stem cell research to try giving people longer life spans, countries over in Asia are trying to create weapons that will kill people. So it's more important to be close minded and kill people than be open minded and try to help out?

**travman301** · 05-21-2009, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevilsTouch

I feel that our ways of communication might be sophisticated enough by than to be acknowledged by some form of highly intelligent alien race that use a much higher level of communication than we do today.

What in the world are you talking about? There is no proof of an highly intelligent alien race. It is not usable in context of a Critical Thinking thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevilsTouch

What are your thoughts on whether or not human civilization makes it to a "Type 1 Civilization"?

You don't even explain what a type 1 or type 2 civilization is or link to any sources explaining what you are trying to say.

You need to rephrase what you are asking in order for this to get discussed seriously.

Perhaps you should try something along the lines of, "As we become more developed as humans will we destroy ourselves with technology?".

**devonin** · 05-21-2009, 09:33 AM

At the rate we're moving up this incredibly arbitrary scale of the advancement of civilization, it'll be 2200 or later before we're even remotely close to passing into the type1 stage of that system.

For those of you who don't know this system, it's basically just a measurement of what percentage of our resources we can actually use.

Once you're using 100% of the energy of your planet you become a Type 1.
Once you're using 100% of the energy of your solar system's primary, you become a Type 2.
Once you're using 100% of the energy of your glaxay, you become a Type 3.

The entire system is naturally, completely arbitrary and subjective, since we know of nothing in the entire universe that is able to do -any- of those things, so comparing ourselves to an imaginary scale seems pretty foolish.

bacc · 05-21-2009, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevilsTouch

explain why and feel free to debate and give me something to read when im bored.

Slinky

I'll give you something to read when your bored. How bout going bacc on xbl sometime so you can read the results of you losing against me. How about that, yeah. Nah chill, im playing. I believe we will evolve into a type1. I dont have a reason why, it is just my personal feelings.

DevilsTouch · 05-21-2009, 08:46 PM

Well said Dev. And trav, this is for people that have heard of or know of this subject, so try to use common sense next time and just don't post anything. Maby now that Dev has explained what it is, (and how do you know so much about everything Dev?) you could give your opinion on the subject. And Dev, for you to say that it is foolish, is to call Michio Kaku foolish. I dont think that would make you look very good. But thx for the info

**Reach** · 05-22-2009, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevilsTouch

And Dev, for you to say that it is foolish, is to call Michio Kaku foolish.

He says foolish things all the time. He's nice to listen to, but not always accurate. He has gone on about comparing computational power of traditional computers with the human brain before, which is nonsensical, and has claimed computers are approaching the computational power of the mind, which is also a stupid claim.

Anyway, I think Devonin said everything I would have said with respect to the civilization types. It's an arbitrary scale developed on the basis of no evidence; it's science fiction/futurist at best, and an interesting topic to ponder, but I wouldn't take it too seriously.

Quote:

and how do you know so much about everything Dev?

Google -> Type 1 civilization -> Results: detailed summary of the Karhashev scale on Wiki.

I really wish it was a more common practice for people to do at least some research before posting their opinion.

DevilsTouch · 05-22-2009, 10:38 AM

lol Nice. And one more thing, Trav what do you mean theres no evidence of intelligent life out there. Who needs evidence for that subject. I don't think were that special man, there has to be other intelligent life out there, and if there is, and they are thousands, or millions of years ahead of us, than they will not be using any where near the same technology that we use communication wise today.

Hey Dev, I think Reach is calling you out man. You gonna take that ? You gonna let him tramble all over your pride liek that? huh HUH

**devonin** · 05-23-2009, 10:13 AM

I simply point to him saying "He says foolish things all the time" and "I agree with what he said" and don't see any need to address any further.

On topic: What do you mean "who needs evidence for that"? Anybody who wants to be reasonable or logical about anything needs evidence for that. Saying "We're not special, therefore there must be other life, therefore it must be more advanced than us" doesn't form from any kind of logic. The response to those claims is "says who?" says you? What makes you so sure?

Actually, Reach, you mean statements like this? "The human brain fails because it is also constantly forgetting information (or at least neural paths weaken to the point where you cannot retrieve the information anymore). You may be able to keep stuffing things into it, but unlike a computer that will never magically lose files, your brain certainly will."

DevilsTouch · 05-23-2009, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevilsTouch

lol Nice. And one more thing, Trav what do you mean theres no evidence of intelligent life out there. Who needs evidence for that subject. I don't think were that special man, there has to be other intelligent life out there, and if there is, and they are thousands, or millions of years ahead of us, than they will not be using any where near the same technology that we use communication wise today.

Hey Dev, I think Reach is calling you out man. You gonna take that ? You gonna let him tramble all over your pride liek that? huh HUH

OPPS SRY I ment to say "may be" when i said "are" Theres more of a chance of them being less advanced as us. Sry for the confusion. But still why should travman of even said that. I never ment that there IS intelligent life out there, but that there probaly is, and either way why would he say that? I mean lol, do I need evidence to even mention the possibility. Trav, are you that dense?

**Reach** · 05-23-2009, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by devonin

I simply point to him saying "He says foolish things all the time" and "I agree with what he said" and don't see any need to address any further.

On topic: What do you mean "who needs evidence for that"? Anybody who wants to be reasonable or logical about anything needs evidence for that. Saying "We're not special, therefore there must be other life, therefore it must be more advanced than us" doesn't form from any kind of logic. The response to those claims is "says who?" says you? What makes you so sure?

Actually, Reach, you mean statements like this? "The human brain fails because it is also constantly forgetting information (or at least neural paths weaken to the point where you cannot retrieve the information anymore). You may be able to keep stuffing things into it, but unlike a computer that will never magically lose files, your brain certainly will."

I think I've been misinterpreted.

I was referring to Michio Kaku as foolish, not you. He makes extravagant, unverifiable or nonsense claims all the time, though I think it's part of the show to make things more interesting for non scientists - I would assume he actually knows better.

Sorry about that ambiguity, as I was actually trying to support you...lol.

**devonin** · 05-23-2009, 09:50 PM

It's all good. This is why we explain

05-21-2009, 12:26 AM	#1
DevilsTouch FFR Player Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Felton DE Age: 33 Posts: 94	Type 1 Civilization? What are your thoughts on whether or not human civilization makes it to a "Type 1 Civilization"? Michio Kaku has spoken of how the transformation from a Type 0(which is what we are now) to a Type 1 Civilization, is the hardest of all. It is also the most significant, because of many things, such as technology. I feel that our ways of communication might be sophisticated enough by than to be acknowledged by some form of highly intelligent alien race that use a much higher level of communication than we do today. I want to know what you guys think. Will we destroy ourselves before we make that transformation? Do we have what it takes to make it? If not, explain why and feel free to debate and give me something to read when im bored. Slinky Last edited by DevilsTouch; 05-21-2009 at 12:34 AM.. Reason: Change

05-21-2009, 08:23 AM	#2
DossarLX ODI Batch Manager Game Manager, Song Release Coordinator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: USA Age: 29 Posts: 14,861	Re: Type 1 Civilization? You can definitely try to change technology but you can't change people. If you put a harsh law like the death penalty for simple things, other people would probably fight back due to unfair laws. You can help try to change people's interpretation of certain situations such as war and etc. but you can't just use force to persuade. Using force can aggravate people and they might try to track you down. Use the nuclear weapons construction taking place for an example; instead of extensive stem cell research to try giving people longer life spans, countries over in Asia are trying to create weapons that will kill people. So it's more important to be close minded and kill people than be open minded and try to help out?

05-21-2009, 09:33 AM	#4
devonin Very Grave Indeed Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ontario, Canada Age: 40 Posts: 10,098	Re: Type 1 Civilization? At the rate we're moving up this incredibly arbitrary scale of the advancement of civilization, it'll be 2200 or later before we're even remotely close to passing into the type1 stage of that system. For those of you who don't know this system, it's basically just a measurement of what percentage of our resources we can actually use. Once you're using 100% of the energy of your planet you become a Type 1. Once you're using 100% of the energy of your solar system's primary, you become a Type 2. Once you're using 100% of the energy of your glaxay, you become a Type 3. The entire system is naturally, completely arbitrary and subjective, since we know of nothing in the entire universe that is able to do -any- of those things, so comparing ourselves to an imaginary scale seems pretty foolish.

05-21-2009, 08:46 PM	#6
DevilsTouch FFR Player Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Felton DE Age: 33 Posts: 94	Re: Type 1 Civilization? Well said Dev. And trav, this is for people that have heard of or know of this subject, so try to use common sense next time and just don't post anything. Maby now that Dev has explained what it is, (and how do you know so much about everything Dev?) you could give your opinion on the subject. And Dev, for you to say that it is foolish, is to call Michio Kaku foolish. I dont think that would make you look very good. But thx for the info

05-22-2009, 10:38 AM	#8
DevilsTouch FFR Player Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Felton DE Age: 33 Posts: 94	Re: Type 1 Civilization? lol Nice. And one more thing, Trav what do you mean theres no evidence of intelligent life out there. Who needs evidence for that subject. I don't think were that special man, there has to be other intelligent life out there, and if there is, and they are thousands, or millions of years ahead of us, than they will not be using any where near the same technology that we use communication wise today. Hey Dev, I think Reach is calling you out man. You gonna take that ? You gonna let him tramble all over your pride liek that? huh HUH Last edited by DevilsTouch; 05-22-2009 at 10:38 AM.. Reason: grammar

05-23-2009, 10:13 AM	#9
devonin Very Grave Indeed Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ontario, Canada Age: 40 Posts: 10,098	Re: Type 1 Civilization? I simply point to him saying "He says foolish things all the time" and "I agree with what he said" and don't see any need to address any further. On topic: What do you mean "who needs evidence for that"? Anybody who wants to be reasonable or logical about anything needs evidence for that. Saying "We're not special, therefore there must be other life, therefore it must be more advanced than us" doesn't form from any kind of logic. The response to those claims is "says who?" says you? What makes you so sure? Actually, Reach, you mean statements like this? "The human brain fails because it is also constantly forgetting information (or at least neural paths weaken to the point where you cannot retrieve the information anymore). You may be able to keep stuffing things into it, but unlike a computer that will never magically lose files, your brain certainly will." Last edited by devonin; 05-23-2009 at 10:22 AM..

05-23-2009, 09:50 PM	#12
devonin Very Grave Indeed Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ontario, Canada Age: 40 Posts: 10,098	Re: Type 1 Civilization? It's all good. This is why we explain

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