So I went to church tonight....

[pokelda]

Talking about religion makes babies cry.

[dore]

Originally Posted by ryanisadouche

If you ignore everything else i right, read this. I challenge one person to answer me the following loophole.

Okay so Christianity states that God loves us all, and that we will go to heaven if we only choose to believe. In fact thats the ONLY way to go to heaven, we MUST believe.

So what if 3 year old child is killed in an accident? Having not yet reached an age where he is capable of making the decision to believe in God or not, does this mean he goes to hell? He spends 3 insignificant years on earth and now he's going to burn in hell for more then 100000000000000000000 years? Infinitys pretty long.

According to the Bible (I don't know the verse, but a Bible-pusher on campus quoted it from somewhere in a similar argument) children are not responsible for their own actions, that their souls are pure because they have not been tarnished by the outside world yet; therefore, children would go to heaven automatically. Until they become adult (not in the legal sense of the word, just as in aware enough to be responsible for their own actions) they will not be punished for what they have yet to do.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Mark 10:13-16

13People were bringing little children to Jesus to have him touch them, but the disciples rebuked them. 14When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 15I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it." 16And he took the children in his arms, put his hands on them and blessed them.

Originally Posted by ryanisadouche

More realisticly, what about people born across the globe, in third-world countries? Millions of these people simply will not have the chance to ever be exposed to christanity. Its not part of their inherent culture, many people simply don't know what it is. This means they're all going to hell? I thought God loved them? He didn't even give them a choice! They simply were not born under circumstances where Christanity was ever exposed to them, so how should they know better? This doesn't make them bad people.

That is a tougher question, but that's also the premise behind missionary work (teaching as many "ignorant" people as possible). There are plenty of branches of Christianity and related religions that believe that good people who believe in God in some way, even if they are ignorant of the Bible and the word of Jesus, will still go to heaven because it's not their fault. Of course other branches vehemently believe that you're going straight to hell if you don't live by the Bible, but with terms as broad as "religion" or "Christianity" it's hard to make a generalization without finding some exceptions.

[ryanisadouche]

Originally Posted by Sullyman2007

You are one of the most ignorant people I have seen post on this website in a long time.

If your going to call me out, at least post SOME kind of reasoning.

http://www.mapsofwar.com/ind/history-of-religion.html

there's a fun little video anyways, it doesn't really have to do with what my point was, but whatever.


@Dore: For me anyways, theres just too many discrepancies for it all too fit together properly. There seems to be some sort of absurd exception for every rule that doesn't quite fit.

"There are plenty of branches of Christianity and related religions that believe that good people who believe in God in some way, even if they are ignorant of the Bible and the word of Jesus, will still go to heaven because it's not their fault."

There's a few ways to interpret what you just said here, but the way i see it, it comes down to these absurd exceptions again.. Back to our third-world countries, with people who haven't been exposed to Jesus; What if their way of believing in God is to worship a statue in the center of their town? There are MANY passages of the bible, saying AGAIN and AGAIN you should not worship false idols. Well, these people have not heard of Jesus or the Bible, so they certainly can't be worshiping him, so wouldn't that make their statue a false idol? Yet they're still good people, and believe in the concept of a greater, almighty presence.

But i do see what your saying, and this relates to what i said in my last post, about there being "1 actual god" and people globally know him through their own personal names and forms. But thats a completely different argument, and Christians certainly don't agree with this.

[championanwar]

Originally Posted by ryanisadouche

There's a few ways to interpret what you just said here, but the way i see it, it comes down to these absurd exceptions again.. Back to our third-world countries, with people who haven't been exposed to Jesus; What if their way of believing in God is to worship a statue in the center of their town? There are MANY passages of the bible, saying AGAIN and AGAIN you should not worship false idols. Well, these people have not heard of Jesus or the Bible, so they certainly can't be worshiping him, so wouldn't that make their statue a false idol? Yet they're still good people, and believe in the concept of a greater, almighty presence.

The statue can be a symbol of the person they are worshiping.
One extra thing, why is only Christianity under the magnifying glass. If you say religion is a scam, why not bring all the other religions into it. It seems as if you are only finding "flaws" in the Christian, preferably Catholic Church.

[x After Dawn x]

Originally Posted by ryanisadouche

Christianity is essentially scare tactics, to generate revenue and keep people regulated.

Originally Posted by ryanisadouche

i'm an idiot lol case closed

"Case closed."

[ryanisadouche]

Originally Posted by championanwar

The statue can be a symbol of the person they are worshiping.
One extra thing, why is only Christianity under the magnifying glass. If you say religion is a scam, why not bring all the other religions into it. It seems as if you are only finding "flaws" in the Christian, preferably Catholic Church.

Yes but the statue can't specifically be a symbol of Jesus if they don't KNOW who jesus is.

I'm not specifying any other religions because I don't know anything about them...I was a Christian and I've read the bible, so at least i know what I'm talking about. I can't specifically single out other religions, cause i don't know anything about them. With that being said, i believe most religions are manipulative and bullsh*t.

[Grandiagod]

Oh god would me posting in this thread destroying everything be bad considering this will probably be locked within the hour?

I mean I could but it seems expected of me somehow and I don't like to be predictable.

[EAGAMES]

Originally Posted by ryanisadouche

Yes but the statue can't specifically be a symbol of Jesus if they don't KNOW who jesus is.

I'm not specifying any other religions because I don't know anything about them...I was a Christian and I've read the bible, so at least i know what I'm talking about. I can't specifically single out other religions, cause i don't know anything about them. With that being said, i believe most religions are manipulative and bullsh*t.

Originally Posted by ryanisadouche

John 3:16-17,
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved!"

Oh i guess he's right and the bibles wrong then. But wait there's literally thousands of contradictions in the bible. hmm

You know of certain things, but you don't know completely what you're talking about. I know this because the bible never contradicts itself. Enlighten yourself a bit more on what is supposedly contradicting itself, and don't start religion drama in the forums since it never goes well.

Also, yes, most religions are as you describe them. In case if you're looking for one that isn't, base your critizisms on their actions (if they aply what they preach), their beliefs (make sure you fully understand them. If something is unclear, ask!), and if everything they say comes from the bible (ask them to use the bible to answer everthing). Don't let anyone tell you what's the right one, you decide. Have fun!

zomg I put my two cents in this thread. D:

[Grandiagod]

Originally Posted by EAGAMES

I know this because the bible never contradicts itself.

Okay i seriously can't let this pass without RAGING, and i might submit this to fstdt for the hell of it

seriously google man

http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...istencies.html

[ryanisadouche]

Originally Posted by EAGAMES

You know of certain things, but you don't know completely what you're talking about. I know this because the bible never contradicts itself. Enlighten yourself a bit more on what is supposedly contradicting itself

Please please please please please type the words "contradictions in the bible" in your google searchbar. I would give links but there's way to many to choose from. I mean just by cracking open any random book in the bible and reading for a bit i guarantee you can find some of your own.

edit - ninja'd

also grandia, please destroy this thread

[Izzy]

Originally Posted by ryanisadouche

Just do yourself a little bit of research. Religion literally brings in BILLIONS of COMPLETELY, UN-TAXED DOLLARS each year. Billions. Put 2 and 2 together.

There also thousands of religion related deaths every year, and those billions come from churchs ripping people off in the name of "god". But i guess people who work at churches have to make a living to.

[Grandiagod]

Originally Posted by Izzy

There also thousands of religion related deaths every year.

I'd go with tens of thousands if not hundreds actually.

[UberMario]

guys, I already solved this. It's a waste of time.

[Afrombean]

I notice someone linked to the logical fallacies thread above.

You do realize that most of those fallacies listed are commonly applied to religious beliefs, right? Even the examples given explicitly mention religious beliefs in relation to common occurrences of those logical fallacies.

People debating religion on the ideas that a religion ISN'T FALSE have already lost as this is not possible. However, the flipside here is that due to the nature of religion, they also by definition are impossible to logically prove false, because a "God moves in mysterious ways" can be used to counter every single thing about religion that doesn't make sense, and that is, at the same time, both technically inadmissable in a true debate and also unfalsifiable by the defense.

In the end, all there is to it is that debate about truth of religion is impossible. Religion isn't based on logic and doesn't require a bit of it; it's all faith with little to no reasonable "proof". Religions are quite simply impossible to debate, so anyone taking a stance in a debate other than neutrality has already lost.

Religious factuality aside, people have already nailed the topic pretty well. Religion leads to fighting, sometimes even war. Even now, the fact that we have military in the Middle East is due to the beliefs of certain Muslim sects in the region. Religious beliefs have been used as a means of destruction far too often in the past, and even today it can still rip apart those who would otherwise be kind to one another. It can do good, it is true, but that is far outstretched by the corruption, I would say. I have semi-personal experience with the sort of "brainwashing" that can occur within Christian subcommunities; the idea pushed being that a life without absolute faith, even a good natured one, will lead to eternal damnation, and this alone brings people in in droves. It's a shame too, because faith on its own isn't necessarily bad, it's just the groupthink that comes from it sometimes. I would say that the problem with religion isn't the logical leaps of faith but rather the organized nature of it. Believe in whatever god you choose (or not), just don't get sucked into groupthink.

[Izzy]

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/5...0465858ms5.gif

[Grandiagod]

Originally Posted by Afrombean

In the end, all there is to it is that debate about truth of religion is impossible. Religion isn't based on logic and doesn't require a bit of it; it's all faith with little to no reasonable "proof". Religions are quite simply impossible to debate, so anyone taking a stance in a debate other than neutrality has already lost.

You're partially wrong.

If they're arguing about the correctness of a certain religion yes. If they're arguing about the factuality of religion than the person saying it is false is the winner, it's just futile argument after that.

If it's a debate about the nature of religion (ie. is it good or bad, does it help the world or is it a liability, is it based on fear and indoctrination or a free will belief system) then legitimate debate can be had

[iceefudgesickle]

Originally Posted by ryanisadouche

Christianity isn't so bad (there's been the holy crusades amongst other things), but what do you think is the reasoning behind suicide bomber attacks? They think they're DYING FOR THEIR GOD! S-T-U-P-I-D

When was there a suicide bomber for Christianity? You realize that the terrorists in the Middle East are islamic extremists, right?

I don't quite understand how you can with all good conscience say "Religion is a scam, especially Christianity", when Scientology exists.

Anyways, there isn't any solid evidence, any conclusive yes-or-no truth out there that can confirm whether Christianity is true or not, but the same can be said about everything that tries to explain the existence of life, such as evolution.

There is evidence against evolution and evidence for it. Same with Christianity. The problem is that people always ignore the evidence on the other side because with topics such as politics and religion, people don't like to turn from their opinions.

I'm Christian because it gives me something to hope for in my life, and because it just seems like it was the way it happened... like how the Bible fits so perfectly together and all that, it doesn't seem like humans could fake their way through something like the Bible. It also makes sense to me - just saying that some explosion happened and that created the planets makes even less sense then that a God showed up out of nothing and created everything.

Anyways, to the TC, I'm glad your broadening your horizons by going to church and stuff like that. You probably actually went to a youth group, which isn't really a real church service, it's just a place to hang out and learn a bit about Christianity but mostly just to socialize in a church environment or something.

[Izzy]

And do you believe that because that's all you have ever been taught in bible class or because you came to your own conclusions.

[iceefudgesickle]

Originally Posted by eastsideman09

You'd probably laugh at something the video I watched explained. The people who tell others and believe that as long as you accept Jesus as your savior, you're going to heaven. As long as you say you're christian, you're in. Well, this dude on the video says that's wrong, and that you need to do more than just say it. Earn your way into heaven, not continue "sinning". Those "christians" are going to Hell, if the video is to be believed :P.

Um, sounds like your church got the facts wrong. The Bible says in Ephesians 2:8-9, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast." That passage says we are saved only through God's grace and not by what we do here on Earth.

[Izzy]