What's with the hostility towards Christians?

[speeddemon]

Changed because of his removal from the thread. Nevermind to all i typed.

[Emo_Saur_]

As I'm sure it has been said many times in this post, the people who " shove the bible down your throat," are the ones who are more "hated," than the religion as a whole. As for me I am agnostic, I am open minded to the fact that it is plausible, but you can't prove to me that there IS a higher power or there isin't one.
There are radical christians who are completely insane on these subjects, those being basically: cults, some preachers, youth pastors, certain parents. There are all different kinds of people who impose, and bring a bad name upon the community, none as a whole, but to groups.
Now, with the bible, it tells you only things that jesus, and "Him," did to help, and teach. If you have looked around, there are stories and books of the darker side of the two. Now, I would rather be told the truth too, than someone be short with me.

[speeddemon]

The intolerant and ignorant are more of a problem for me. Especially the ones that still think they're right and have come out on top despite valid and extremely solid arguments against them. Nothing i can't stand worse than someone who can't argue their point but refuse to believe they've lost.

[argo15]

For those of you who didn't click the link.

AHAHAHAHAHA

I was forced to go to church as a child. I hated it. I'm an athiest, one because I'm a person of logic and reasoning, and two (from my experience) because they really arn't accepting of people making there own decisions.

[qqwref]

Originally Posted by Megamanmaniac

I dont care if you all hate me becuase that means that I am doing the right thing.

His pastor hates Muslims, right? By this guy's own logic, Islam is the religion that God wants us to believe. Muslims are believing the right thing.

[Squeek]

I think I've stated this a bunch of times in this thread already:

What makes Christians so damn certain that all other religions are wrong? At the same time, what makes all those other religions so damn certain Christianity is wrong?

Why does this pastor think Obama's faith is a sin? Even if he were a Muslim (he's not), I fail to see how this is a sin against God, since they worship the same god, but call him a different name. He still has all the morality and idealism of religion--just not your ideals. That makes him a sinner?

I know this is an extreme example, but this is another reason why I'm annoyed with Christianity. This concept of "sin". It's so arbitrary. It just doesn't seem fair to me that you can throw out that word so hastily. The legal system in our country is so complicated and we have to go through a long process before we can fully accuse someone of being guilty of a crime. Why are you allowed to call someone a sinner so easily? Didn't Jesus himself say "let he who is without sin cast the first stone"?

The ten commandments are a pretty straightforward concept. Were they too good for you? You had to dig deep into the Bible to try to say Gay Marriage is a sin against God? I can't possibly imagine what kind of loving God would oppose two people loving one another. That doesn't make any sense. And it's these scattered lines of random text that make otherwise rational people suddenly belligerent in defending something they would otherwise have no problem with. Two people loving one another. That doesn't affect you in any way at all. Why are you trying to interfere with love?

[speeddemon]

And now it turns to gay marriage instead of science. Fun stuff. Least this thread shouldn't run out of interesting material for a while. We've still got abortion to cover, after all.

[speeddemon]

Originally Posted by KgZ

All religion is stupid

everyone should just be an apatheist, life would be so much more simpler

If everyone were the same of anything life would be easier. Everyone would agree. Any religion, excepting some of the radical ones like Scientology, would be happy if every human was a member.

[Frozen Beat]

KgZ, what are you talking about? It's okay to have a religion to follow, it's not stupid. You can't just outright say that.

People do it all the time, they follow religions. Heck, laws are based on it, and you know what? I admit that the Roman Catholic church constantly messes up with it's crap without taking a lesson. Hopefull they're starting to.

Although I find it interesting on how there are different styles of "Christianity." It's such a vague term for god's sakes -_-. No pun inteded, seriously -_-.

For instance- One example says: "you die and go into an infinite sleep and you will eventually rise up by Jesus."

And lol about all religions thinking that they're right. We'll see who's right in the end...or will we...

Another says- "you must follow the 10 commandments, as well as believe in god, then you will go to heaven.

Whatever, just stating my crap.

[foilman8805]

Originally Posted by KgZ

I don't care what people believe in, but people who preach to me that I'm wrong for not believing in something should suck a dick.

****in KgZism right there. Amen, bro.

[ieatyourlvllol]

Originally Posted by argo15

a person of logic and reasoning

incoming: mega tl;dr - read bolded text for general idea haha

I think a more appropriate way to phrase it would be "a person of scientific reasoning". As I noted earlier, there are several famed theories that employ logic to offer forth conjectures regarding certain aspects of religion (metaphysical existence, human origin, etc.). Admittedly, some of these approaches are questionable in some respect or another (abuse of semantics, for instance), but quite a few are valid proposals that can't be readily countered by common methods of dismantlement (e.g. extracting illogical premises or assumptions). However, much like any scientific theory, they are nonetheless attempts to explain the universe in comprehensible terms. Thus, in an objective sense, both science and religion are predicated on theory and faith.

The main point of divergence between science and religion, then, is that science has evidence that can be extracted from the physical world and interpreted using the logic that is inherent to its structure. Because constant observation has time and again affirmed the reliability of such logic, it is by this system that other rationales are judged. Consequently, to be considered logically viable, religion is expected to adhere to the same standard of reasoning as science when attempting to explain its premises.

However, religion calls upon an additional dimension of physical transcendence to answer questions that seem to escape some extent of science. Thus, because its premises reside in a realm far removed from observability, religion has a burden of proof that is vastly difficult to carry on the terms of pure logic. Therein lies a major point of contention between the very scientifically-minded and the very religiously-minded - the latter tend to dismiss the importance of logic by attesting that belief in something has precedence over the reasons for believing it.

The conflict is perpetrated mostly on the religious side by "cookie-cutter" / "mass-produced" believers who have been convinced, through no particular fault of their own, that their religion is inarguable, that their convictions are absolute truth because they circumvent the necessity for scientifically based logic, and that it is justified to vilify those who don't share their particular brand of faith (when in all practicality, there is no right or wrong - simply a belief in what is right or wrong). Unfortunately, because they leave the most enduring impression, albeit a contemptible one, they serve as the image of religion (especially theism), which is then linked with descriptors such as "uninformed", "close-minded", etc. As a theist that fully supports science and encourages all people to continually challenge their beliefs, I can't stand it. Just by looking through some of the posts in this thread (you guys know to whom I refer), I can easily see how religion (specifically Christianity) has garnered the hostility that it has. At this point, I can hope only that the institution undergoes some change that will abate negative associations while keeping its foundation intact. I suppose only time will tell, though.

P.S. - if you actually read through that, you probably have immunity to BLoCk TexT lol

[devonin]

As I noted earlier, there are several famed theories that employ logic to offer forth conjectures regarding certain aspects of religion (metaphysical existence, human origin, etc.).

St. Anselm thanks you for remembering him.

[ieatyourlvllol]

8)

I'm telling ya...if like a tenth of the population would brief themselves on the history and philosophy of theism, agnosticism, and atheism, rather than making decisions based mostly on impression, the hostility would lessen exponentially.

Alas, even a tenth is a lot to ask for...

[flipsta_lombax]

Originally Posted by Squeek

You missed my point.

Let's say I said I was the son of God. Would you believe me?

Why did people believe this carpenter fellow? Why don't people believe guys in New York?

The answer to an atheist's point of view is that he wowed them with magic tricks. The answer to a Christian's point of view is that he wowed them with miracles. Either way, he used sensationalism to sell himself.

You do realize of course that Jesus was not the only recorded miracle-worker at the time? People were living in poverty, wondering every day if they were just going to drop dead the next. They would've given anything if someone told them they could be saved.

On the second point...

Tell me, good sir, if God is an omnipotent, omniscient, all-powerful being, why does he choose such cryptic ways of contacting random people if they might interpret it as killing their children? He's supposed to be an omnipotent, omniscient, all-powerful being. He is supposed to have the power to create the universe. Why can't he summon the power to talk to us in more efficient ways? Why can't he just punish evil people himself, instead sending psychopathic mass-murderers on a mission from him to kill people. He's supposed to be an omnipotent, omniscient, all-powerful being.

And don't give me this B.S. that "God works in mysterious ways." You and I both know that's not true. That's a cover up you use when you can't explain when an atheist asks how such horrible things can happen to such good people.

Hell, if you said you were the son of God, I'd dismiss it immediately. You would probably go about mocking his works saying "it was nothing but a magic trick". I'd rather be praising Satan over you, God forbid.

People believed him because most people know about God. Jesus proclaimed he was the son of God who supposedly lived a perfect life and died for our sins. If a New Yorker proclaims he has lived the same way as Jesus did and does the same 'miracles', that may spark attention to a lot of people. I can't say for sure if it can and will happen. I'm not the one who pursues God's power.

You look at it that way as if you expect something big from something good. When did the little things ever matter? It should matter just the same. Your answers portray how little you see of a miracle, and how pessimistic you are towards it. Tell me, can a magic trick make a blind person see? Or a crippled person walk? If you convince me there is such a magic trick, prove me wrong now.

Otherwise, I'd like you to reconsider your answer, good sir.

Stop assuming that every helpless person would drop dead for salvation, which you know that is complete bias. Not every person who were in poverty wanted the same thing. Some went for help, but not all.


You want to know why he works in mysterious ways? Clearly, you put that in your question already, him picking out random people out who may in turn do wrong things, so I'm not using that as my answer. You misunderstood me. Why do you keep shoving that same topic about God as if God is a complete mistake or someone who means wrong things?

You hear from people that they received a word from God, but would you bring it up to me if she said she was told by Satan? No. Satan works in mysterious ways too, you know. He has a third of God's power, so he can also do 'godly' things.

And you want to know why he talks to 'random' people? Because not everyone is ready to hear nor understand His word.

Like you.

'Random' people would be ready to receive his word and understand. Tell me, you have so many questions, yet I have the answers. Doesn't that make me the one who understands and you the one who lacks the knowledge or the truth?

Haha, and you think He sends demons to kill people. Think again.

[NFD]

But Kenneh, is what that pastor did, saying that Obama's presidency a sin, is that bad?

[Dorby]

Originally Posted by NFD

But Kenneh, is what that pastor did, saying that Obama's presidency a sin, is that bad?

Falls under freedom of speech, but just because we have the freedom to say it, dosen't mean we should. Judging by him saying that, his opinion should not be valid under any circumstance; this dude sounds like a nut job.

[qqwref]

What the pastor said about Obama is not illegal because of (again) freedom of speech. However, since he is in a position of power/responsibility (a pastor), where people listen to what he says, I think he has a responsibility to say things which are not hateful. So I would say that what he said is definitely unethical - and maybe even immoral - even though it is not illegal.

[Emo_Saur_]

The subject on Gay Relationships:

It says marriage is out of love, not lust. Therefore, being marriage is between two who love one another, not lust.
One thing that gets me is predestination. If being homosexual is SO BAD, why would someone who hates it make it possible? Why would he create so many people who will later be condemed to hell. It's in a way "murder," so to speak.
I think you should have good morals in life, not have to worry about: sin, damnation, salvation.

[foilman8805]

Well, to those of the religious mind, being gay is a choice, not a genetic predisposition as others would argue.

[Emo_Saur_]

Originally Posted by foilman8805

Well, to those of the religious mind, being gay is a choice, not a genetic predisposition as others would argue.

Yes, but they also say there is no free-will. That means you can not mess with the fate god has planned.

Just to me, I think more of the bigger churches are the biggest scam around. I mean, you give what is supposed to be given to the church and you should be done. Give or take you want to donate a few more and feel better about yourself. NOW, you get these HUGE churches that say if you don't give and give, you will be looked down upon god.

Money>God, I just can't get over the situations.