Democratic primary!

[MalReynolds]

They have books devoted to the history of the US? Holy shit!


Mal

Originally Posted by jewpinthethird

See, the thing is, we didnt have any real reason to be in Iraq. Sure, they may have been a threat to US security, but North Korea isnt? The whole "weapons of mass destruction in Iraq" thing was pretty much lies. They fact that the US LIED TO THE U.N. IS VERY VERY SAD. That says a lot about the administration.

Let's put you in Saddam's shoes for a minute.
You know these things:
A) You've been trying to cover up secret military facilities from the UN for years
B) The US has spy reports of where your WMDs are
C) The US is looking for your WMDs
D) The US has the most powerful army in the world
E) You're screwed when the US marches in, and they'll find your WMDs
F) You have 2 months, give or take, to prepare
G) Using the WMDs screws over your country
H) You can't back down or surrender, otherwise you won't be able to possibly appear as a martyr later.

What do you do? Just sit there? No, you go and start dismantling and hiding your WMDs. This is exactly what Saddam has done. We have found in Iraq parts that nuclear weapons could be built out of within hours. I have more evidence to support this theory if you wish.

North Korea is a far lesser threat because they don't HATE us. Saddam actually HATED us, and he believed he had a divine mission to put a stop to us. Ever read Iraqi news reports? All the reports on the war before the fall of Baghdad say the same thing: "Allah will protect us and not allow the demonic enemy to enter our land" or something to that effect. When we're viewed as demons, they'll try to destroy us.

[Anticrombie0909]

Here's why I hate Bush.

1.He decieved us, by subtly making us think that Saddam had a part in 9-11 (there is no evidence henceforth to support that, in fact there is evidence to discredit that accusation).
2.He wasted billions of dollars unneccessarily.
3.He called the United Nations 'futile and useless' after they refused to help him with the war (no joke, his exact words).
4.He went ahead with the war anyway, initially without even Congress's approval.
5.He had a 'shoot first and ask questions later' war strategy, and now we have hundreds of thousands of troops in Iraq and no idea what to do with them.
6.His plan was to rebuild the government, but basically he just gave them a lobotomy. They may have been malicious before, but now they're useless.
7.He wants to rubuild their economy, by basically borrowing ever increasing amounts of our money, and raising the deficeit further.
8.He choked on a pretzel.

Does this sound like a successful president? Even freakin President Hoover didn't make this many mistakes.

[VxDx]

9. Everyone who's cool does.

[MalReynolds]

Yeah, I so fucken choked on a pretzel once. You have no idea how bad it hurts, neither. You see, your intelligence does not directly correlate with how well you swallow pretzels. Otherwise, you wouldn't see any mentally defecient people with pretzels.

Or you would, depending on the population.

Mal

1.He decieved us, by subtly making us think that Saddam had a part in 9-11 (there is no evidence henceforth to support that, in fact there is evidence to discredit that accusation).

When did he ever imply this? Saddam's been an enemy of the U.S. all along and an Al-Qaeda supporter.

2.He wasted billions of dollars unneccessarily.

A) On what?
B) What president hasn't in the last 50 years?

3.He called the United Nations 'futile and useless' after they refused to help him with the war (no joke, his exact words).

The UN ~is~ futile and useless. They're really an all-talk-and-no-action organization.

4.He went ahead with the war anyway, initially without even Congress's approval.

He had Congress's approval from the start.

5.He had a 'shoot first and ask questions later' war strategy, and now we have hundreds of thousands of troops in Iraq and no idea what to do with them.

We have 130,000 troops that have a very definite, defined mission.

6.His plan was to rebuild the government, but basically he just gave them a lobotomy. They may have been malicious before, but now they're useless.

Read the link in my post 2 posts ago and you'll understand why Saddam needed to go. We're working on the new government. You can't set one up overnight!


7.He wants to rubuild their economy, by basically borrowing ever increasing amounts of our money, and raising the deficeit further.

First you criticize him for NOT helping the Iraqi government, now you criticize him for helping it? What is it?

8.He choked on a pretzel.

Your ad hominem attack is irrelevant to Bush's ability as a President. Did you know President Clinton got the flu once? GASP! Presidents are HUMAN! They suffer HUMAN PROBLEMS! ~shock~

[jewpinthethird]

Originally Posted by chardish

North Korea is a far lesser threat because they don't HATE us. Saddam actually HATED us, and he believed he had a divine mission to put a stop to us. Ever read Iraqi news reports? All the reports on the war before the fall of Baghdad say the same thing: "Allah will protect us and not allow the demonic enemy to enter our land" or something to that effect. When we're viewed as demons, they'll try to destroy us.

If Saddam hated us so much, then why didnt he nuke us in the first place? What is the point in having them? What good is hiding them?

North Korea is looking to the two largest in Nuking range (the US and Japan) for help because their economy is suffering. They have made numerous threats to Japan (I know this for a fact because I met the Japanese ambassador last year when he gave a talk on the problem with North Korea). We know N.Korea has nukes, we dont know if Iraq does. We know N. Korea is begging for attention (much like how the Japanese did before they attacked Pearl Harbor, for the same reason too).

But you cant deny that the rest of the world hates us. Millions of people from all over the world protested, George W. Bush called them "Focus Groups". Face it, those who support the war are the minority.

[heyhey11]

Originally Posted by chardish

1.He decieved us, by subtly making us think that Saddam had a part in 9-11 (there is no evidence henceforth to support that, in fact there is evidence to discredit that accusation).

When did he ever imply this? Saddam's been an enemy of the U.S. all along and an Al-Qaeda supporter.

2.He wasted billions of dollars unneccessarily.

A) On what?
B) What president hasn't in the last 50 years?

3.He called the United Nations 'futile and useless' after they refused to help him with the war (no joke, his exact words).

The UN ~is~ futile and useless. They're really an all-talk-and-no-action organization.

4.He went ahead with the war anyway, initially without even Congress's approval.

He had Congress's approval from the start.

5.He had a 'shoot first and ask questions later' war strategy, and now we have hundreds of thousands of troops in Iraq and no idea what to do with them.

We have 130,000 troops that have a very definite, defined mission.

6.His plan was to rebuild the government, but basically he just gave them a lobotomy. They may have been malicious before, but now they're useless.

Read the link in my post 2 posts ago and you'll understand why Saddam needed to go. We're working on the new government. You can't set one up overnight!


7.He wants to rubuild their economy, by basically borrowing ever increasing amounts of our money, and raising the deficeit further.

First you criticize him for NOT helping the Iraqi government, now you criticize him for helping it? What is it?

8.He choked on a pretzel.

Your ad hominem attack is irrelevant to Bush's ability as a President. Did you know President Clinton got the flu once? GASP! Presidents are HUMAN! They suffer HUMAN PROBLEMS! ~shock~

Originally Posted by chardish

Anticrombie0909 wrote:

He's borrowed billions of wasted dollars for a war that didn't need to be fought


Like how Clinton spent $2 billion a year on the "war on drugs", even though illegal drug use didn't decline at all during his administration? At least we freed a people from an oppressive dictator. See http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0030603-7.html

Anticrombie0909 wrote:
Half the US thinks the war in Iraq was a bad idea from the start


Half the US are Democrats. And people who are affiliated to a major party feel the knee-jerk need to oppose the other party on all issues, which is silly. No war should be a freaking partisan issue! But idiot politicians - Republicans AND Democrats - insist on making everything a partisan issue to perpetuate the two-party system.

Anticrombie0909 wrote:
he's screwed over the war anyway by keeping troops there far longer than needed


If America left now, Iraq would plunge into greater chaos as small militant and insurgent groups made violent claims to power. We're actually keeping the loss of life down by staying there!

Anticrombie0909 wrote:
as losses continue to mount from our own ineptitude


Let's not forget that we have the strongest military force in the world, far from "inept" at doing anything. Which is why Baghdad fell within days of our entry with minimal loss of blood. In addition, the death toll over there is 497. Four hundred and ninety seven. And that's ALL Coalition forces, not just U.S. troops. By comparison, U.S. deaths in the Korean war numbered 36,940. And you probably forgot the Korean war ever happened.

Anticrombie0909 wrote:
he has no idea how to form a working government there


That's not Bush's job.

Anticrombie0909 wrote:
and basically is screwing over everything he tries to fix.


Despite the fact that bin Laden's on the run, the Saddam regime is gone, the economy is up, joblessness is down, and most Americans approve of Bush? Your statement appears to be rooted in many falsehoods.

Anticrombie0909 wrote:

Add that to the market being at an almost all-time low in the last year and you've got one man who's name is mud.



The economy is UP! Stock market has surpassed 10,000 for the first time since 9-11. Any economic "recession" we faced was simply an aftereffect of a terrorist attack - i.e. out of Bush's control.

Now usaully i would just be like PWNED (which you were anti) but since this is the critical thinking thread i will express opinion too. See Anti is right in a sense that Bush has made mistakes FROM A DEMOCRATIC OPINION. From the opinion of Republicans he was extremely smart and has only made a few mistakes not a list full of them. HE also will win the election because of his finding of Saddam he has a lot of american support

[makaveli121212]

Originally Posted by jewpinthethird

If Saddam hated us so much, then why didnt he nuke us in the first place? What is the point in having them? What good is hiding them?

But you cant deny that the rest of the world hates us. Millions of people from all over the world protested, George W. Bush called them "Focus Groups". Face it, those who support the war are the minority.

his nukes cant rech the US form iraq...the point in having them is to be ablw to defend themselves if something breaks out in the middle east...if they hide them weapons inspectors wont find them...oh and i dont think spain ever went communist...and come on jewpin, before we went into iraq, did you think iraq had weapons of mass destruction...of course you did everyone did...and of course they have them, why else would they keep weapons inspectors out...just becuase we havent found stockpiles of them dont mean they arent there...we have found chemical weapons, but just not thousands of them

[jewpinthethird]

Before we INVADED Iraq, I didnt give a sh*t about them. Sure, I dont watch the news like totally much, but if something big happens...I'll know about it.

I just feel that WAR is the absolute last resort.

See, what Bush did with his whole "shoot first and ask questions later approach" is, if Iraq did have WMDs and got rid of them, there is no proof now.

[heyhey11]

Originally Posted by jewpinthethird

See, what Bush did with his whole "shoot first and ask questions later approach" is, if Iraq did have WMDs and got rid of them, there is no proof now.

I cant tell your opinion on this statement but id like to add that IT WORKED! The nukes are gone now all we have to worry about is North Korea who were 100000000 times less of a threat

[Yanah_God]

Originally Posted by heyhey11

I cant tell your opinion on this statement but id like to add that IT WORKED! The nukes are gone now all we have to worry about is North Korea who were 100000000 times less of a threat

yep

all of their nuclear weapons are no threat at all to the united states, or any other part of the world

[makaveli121212]

well there is no doubt he had the weapons...for christs sake there is tons of video footage of parades of missles and warheads...however, i wouldnt underestimate nroth korea, theyve been under the radar for a while now, and they hate the US more than Iraq did

[jewpinthethird]

Originally Posted by chardish

North Korea is a far lesser threat because they don't HATE us. Saddam actually HATED us, and he believed he had a divine mission to put a stop to us. Ever read Iraqi news reports? All the reports on the war before the fall of Baghdad say the same thing: "Allah will protect us and not allow the demonic enemy to enter our land" or something to that effect. When we're viewed as demons, they'll try to destroy us.

Originally Posted by makaveli121212

well there is no doubt he had the weapons...for christs sake there is tons of video footage of parades of missles and warheads...however, i wouldnt underestimate nroth korea, theyve been under the radar for a while now, and they hate the US more than Iraq did

Wha...? You two are contradicting yourselves. So, Chardish is saying that Iraq is more of a threat because they hate us. While Maka is saying that North Korea hated us more.

Originally Posted by heyhey11

I cant tell your opinion on this statement but id like to add that IT WORKED! The nukes are gone now all we have to worry about is North Korea who were 100000000 times less of a threat

Just as Japan was no threat to us before WWII. Japan of WWII and North Korea now both want the same thing. Economic stability. To say that N.Korea is less of a threat is just plain ignorance.

[Falcon]

Just as Japan was no threat to us before WWII. Japan of WWII and North Korea now both want the same thing. Economic stability. To say that N.Korea is less of a threat is just plain ignorance.

good analogy. however, does Korea even have the ability to get nukes to our shores? last time i heard, Iraq didnt. also, though a lot of what our government does comes as questionable to me, i trust their decision to attack Iraq before Korea. for some reason, i think they would make the correct decision there.

[jewpinthethird]

Well, I remember there being a lot of hoopla over how North Korea has the technology to launch nukes that can reach the west coast.

I dont know. I we will just have to wait and see.

Originally Posted by jewpinthethird

Wha...? You two are contradicting yourselves. So, Chardish is saying that Iraq is more of a threat because they hate us. While Maka is saying that North Korea hated us more.

We're different people, with different opinions. Just because we share one doesn't mean we share them all.

[makaveli121212]

heres my opiion about korea...lets say eventually we invade them...this is all hypothetical, but...so we invade them because they have nukes...well we are destroying them with our great army/navy/airforce...so we have them backed into a corner...they have no chance...but like the japs in wwII they dont stop fighting, and when they have lost all hope, they shoot a nuke straight up, and have it land on them, thier country, but the US troops as well...those asians have pride, who knows what theyll do

[jewpinthethird]

True. Very true.

[LEGO]

It's called honor over there.