Need some opinions

**psychoangel691** · 02-7-2013, 04:54 PM

Do you think that a simfile author should be able to have their files removed from the game once they're in? Especially if they've been in for years? There's two viewpoints, one being that once the content is submitted it becomes the property of the site the other being that the stepauthor has all rights because they created it. I bring this up because there's a simauthor currently trying to have his files removed. He has 22 files and majority of them would be going from my understanding. Now personally this really pisses me off from a player perspective because it's going to significantly hurt my ranks being at the level I am. So I'm just curious as to how other people feel about this sort of thing. I don't feel like people should be just removing a ton of content like that.

**Poison-** · 02-7-2013, 04:59 PM

**bmah** · 02-7-2013, 05:02 PM

With that many simfiles (or even just one), I'd say no; it's a selfish act to all the others who'd like to play it. People have to remember that those who speak out against a stepper's simfiles are more often than not a small vocal minority. Even if there's a lot of spoken dislike on a song, its removal is IMO far more detrimental than leaving it in.

To have a simfiler save face by removing his or her files is to not really think of others and mistakenly assume that few would appreciate such files.

**Hakulyte** · 02-7-2013, 05:03 PM

It should be done right now in time, but you should eventually come up with guidelines on the submission thread to explain what's an acceptable reason to remove a file etc. to avoid abuse.

**psychoangel691** · 02-7-2013, 05:03 PM

Most of these files are on the lower end which affects lower level players considering we don't exactly have an abundance of them.

Funnier thing I requested for my files to be removed from TS because I wanted to see what the reaction would be and they absolutely refuse to do so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmah

With that many simfiles (or even just one), I'd say no; it's a selfish act to all the others who'd like to play it. People have to remember that those who speak out against a stepper's simfiles are more often than not a small vocal minority. Even if there's a lot of spoken dislike on a song, its removal is IMO far more detrimental than leaving it in.

To have a simfiler save face by removing his or her files is to not really think of others and mistakenly assume that few would appreciate such files.

I actually said that exact thing to him. He wanted to know why I was so mad about him wanting to remove the files I'm like well for one you're screwing a bunch of player's ranks and two some people actually you know enjoy the files. Plus majority are on the lower end as I mentioned.

Edit: I guess to me it's always kind of been once you release the content to the site it becomes the site's. Otherwise I actually would have had my content removed from TS some time ago when I left there. I hate pretty much all the files I did for over there but I dealt with it.

**Netjet!** · 02-7-2013, 05:06 PM

I don't think they should be able to ask their files removed. I suggested that if this happened they could have the simfile author's name changed so they wouldn't be directly associated with it anymore, if anything...

**psychoangel691** · 02-7-2013, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Netjet!

I don't think they should be able to ask their files removed. I suggested that if this happened they could have the simfile author's name changed so they wouldn't be directly associated with it anymore, if anything...

That was something else I suggested and he refused.

**bmah** · 02-7-2013, 05:09 PM

As I said, a lot of players who would enjoy said files are a silent majority. Those who don't remotely associate themselves with the forums or even a comment on their profiles. Those who just play the game.

**igotrhythm** · 02-7-2013, 05:10 PM

I'm with the "property of the site" side. They submitted it, as did SessileNomad with 45 and the other entrants to the menu music contest, which is probably the best precedent we have for this sort of thing.

If the time comes to remove a file, for legal reasons I believe that the decision should rest in the hands of the site staff and not the hands of the file author, no matter how much they whine. If they want their files pulled because they want to tinker with it some more, there's frame fixes for that.

I also agree with Hakulyte--we need guidelines to follow if/when this happens again.

**JohnRedWolf87** · 02-7-2013, 05:13 PM

I don't know whether it would be right or wrong, but I agree it does suck from a player standpoint. After all, all files are part of the game. It'd be kinda like Nintendo taking a level or two out of a Mario game, or a temple/dungeon out of Zelda. Okay, maybe that's a bit overdramatic, but you get what I'm saying.
Besides, maybe it doesn't cause too much of a dent now, since it's only 22 songs. However, it opens the door for other simfile authors to request to have their songs removed in the future. What if an author with a huge number of songs wanted their stuff removed (if there is one. I'm not too knowledgeable about simfile authors' contribution ratios)? Improbable worse-case scenario: What if ALL simfile authors wanted their stuff removed?

**Plan_Bsk81127** · 02-7-2013, 05:14 PM

lol no, once they are in they are in. Dont see why the need to have them removed unless they are being a butthurt tard over something with the site or whatever dumb excuse they have. The removing a file due to the actual artist of the song is one thing, but asking to remove charts as a step artist, especially that many, nope.....

**psychoangel691** · 02-7-2013, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnRedWolf87

I don't know whether it would be right or wrong, but I agree it does suck from a player standpoint. After all, all files are part of the game. It'd be kinda like Nintendo taking a level or two out of a Mario game, or a temple/dungeon out of Zelda. Okay, maybe that's a bit overdramatic, but you get what I'm saying.
Besides, maybe it doesn't cause too much of a dent now, since it's only 22 songs. However, it opens the door for other simfile authors to request to have their songs removed in the future. What if an author with a huge number of songs wanted their stuff removed (if there is one. I'm not too knowledgeable about simfile authors' contribution ratios)? Improbable worse-case scenario: What if ALL simfile authors wanted their stuff removed?

That's actually another thing that concerns me. I'm sure most simauthors have a file or two they would change now that they've been doing it longer or whatever, hell I don't really like my files here so much because I was new and they aren't that strong but I'm not trying to kill them off.

xNiX · 02-7-2013, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psychoangel691

Not hey lets remove the legacy files. If you have nothing else to contribute to the actual question please move on.

No need to be all grumpy mam.

I'm not trying to incline we should remove all legacy files. If a simauthor wanted their song to be removed (and it just so happened to be a legacy file on FFR), I don't see the big deal anyway. It's not like a majority of the players on FFR like playing them in the first place. That was my point.

If a file is going to be removed, I think it also has to be taken in consideration how much it is favored by the community, and how often it is played. I brought up the whole "FFR has over 1.2k files" because it's not like it's the end of the world if we lose some files.

Like Haku said, there should be precautions so this privilege isn't abused.

**SK8R43** · 02-7-2013, 05:19 PM

In my opinion, No they should not be able to have them removed. They submitted them and therefore they should stay because they are a part of the site now.

/2cents

**Crazyjayde** · 02-7-2013, 05:19 PM

I guess there needs to be some sort of agreement between the site and the simauthor, since both parties possess ownership over the file. If there is a way to discuss what content could be considered removable and what is not according to the views of players in the community, then it would be easier to agree on nice terms. Since we have no info whatsoever as of now, I'd suggest we can delimit a certain percent of total songs that can be removed, or a certain choice of songs that the community agrees on. It's the same as the music and movie industry, most content submitted from a party to another is to be handled by the latter.

However, if it comes to music artists, I guess it's another issue.

**psychoangel691** · 02-7-2013, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazyjayde

I guess there needs to be some sort of agreement between the site and the simauthor, since both parties possess ownership over the file. If there is a way to discuss what content could be considered removable and what is not according to the views of players in the community, then it would be easier to agree on nice terms. Since we have no info whatsoever as of now, I'd suggest we can delimit a certain percent of total songs that can be removed, or a certain choice of songs that the community agrees on. It's the same as the music and movie industry, most content submitted from a party to another is to be handled by the latter.

However, if it comes to music artists, I guess it's another issue.

Music artist is definitely a bit of a different boat to deal with.

**qqwref** · 02-7-2013, 05:20 PM

Yeah, I agree it's selfish. You don't get to just have your file removed for no reason... if it's a song permission thing I can understand, but someone just coming in and going "remove all my files pls lol"? That's just unreasonable.

**Garquillex** · 02-7-2013, 05:21 PM

I think authors should be able to have lackluster files removed. It's better for general quality

Some sort of democratic process could be used to determine if they should be removed. Throw them at the judges maybe. This would prevent people from pulling large amounts of songs or pulling a song just to resubmit it with a minor change (although note-sync changes I would welcome, see: Blue Noah vocal notes)

**psychoangel691** · 02-7-2013, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qqwref

Yeah, I agree it's selfish. You don't get to just have your file removed for no reason... if it's a song permission thing I can understand, but someone just coming in and going "remove all my files pls lol"? That's just unreasonable.

The exact reasoning that was given to me by the person is "I don't want to be associated with these files, they're bad and people hate them." Claiming that people are still saying bad things to him about his files when he's not even here anymore and hasn't had anything new in game since '09

Excuse me he did actually have 2 in '10 and 1 in '11.

Xx{Midnight}xX · 02-7-2013, 05:23 PM

It depends on reasoning and length of time it's been in game.

If they are just embarrassed by mounds of mistakes and it hasn't been in game that long, sure let them remove it and fix it. Stuff like that happens.

But if they're reasoning is "people are hating on me and my files" then honestly, I'd say go ahead and remove them, but also prevent future submissions. They obviously can't handle the process at that point and shouldn't waste judge's time.

Also, after a set amount of time they shouldn't be allowed to be removed. What this amount of time is, I don't have a ballpark idea.

02-7-2013, 04:59 PM	#2
Poison- Nope Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: London, ON Age: 29 Posts: 3,772	Re: Need some opinions No

02-7-2013, 05:02 PM	#3
bmah shots FIRED Global Moderator, User Support, Judge Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Edmonton, AB Age: 35 Posts: 8,448	Re: Need some opinions With that many simfiles (or even just one), I'd say no; it's a selfish act to all the others who'd like to play it. People have to remember that those who speak out against a stepper's simfiles are more often than not a small vocal minority. Even if there's a lot of spoken dislike on a song, its removal is IMO far more detrimental than leaving it in. To have a simfiler save face by removing his or her files is to not really think of others and mistakenly assume that few would appreciate such files.

02-7-2013, 05:03 PM	#4
Hakulyte the Haku Join Date: Jul 2005 Age: 35 Posts: 4,522	Re: Need some opinions It should be done right now in time, but you should eventually come up with guidelines on the submission thread to explain what's an acceptable reason to remove a file etc. to avoid abuse.

02-7-2013, 05:06 PM	#6
Netjet! Sic itur ad astra Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Ottawa, Canada Age: 30 Posts: 4,700	Re: Need some opinions I don't think they should be able to ask their files removed. I suggested that if this happened they could have the simfile author's name changed so they wouldn't be directly associated with it anymore, if anything... __________________ RIP Steve Van Ness <3

02-7-2013, 05:09 PM	#8
bmah shots FIRED Global Moderator, User Support, Judge Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Edmonton, AB Age: 35 Posts: 8,448	Re: Need some opinions As I said, a lot of players who would enjoy said files are a silent majority. Those who don't remotely associate themselves with the forums or even a comment on their profiles. Those who just play the game.

02-7-2013, 05:13 PM	#10
JohnRedWolf87 Backlogger of Hobbies Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Nashville, TN Age: 36 Posts: 968	Re: Need some opinions I don't know whether it would be right or wrong, but I agree it does suck from a player standpoint. After all, all files are part of the game. It'd be kinda like Nintendo taking a level or two out of a Mario game, or a temple/dungeon out of Zelda. Okay, maybe that's a bit overdramatic, but you get what I'm saying. Besides, maybe it doesn't cause too much of a dent now, since it's only 22 songs. However, it opens the door for other simfile authors to request to have their songs removed in the future. What if an author with a huge number of songs wanted their stuff removed (if there is one. I'm not too knowledgeable about simfile authors' contribution ratios)? Improbable worse-case scenario: What if ALL simfile authors wanted their stuff removed? __________________ xBBx Takedown's First Tournament - 2nd Place (Beginner) ZC_Wolfy's Birthday Tournament - 3rd Place (Novice) Dragons_Fury One Division Higher Tourney - 2nd Place (Novice) Samurai7694's Ultimate Enduring Fabulous Tournament - 3rd Place (D1) Dark_Chrysalis' 1st FFR Bowl - 2nd Place (D1), 13th place overall Panic4Me and MrMagic's Thanksgiving Tournament - 2nd Place (D1)

02-7-2013, 05:14 PM	#11
Plan_Bsk81127 snooches Join Date: Aug 2007 Age: 32 Posts: 6,420	Re: Need some opinions lol no, once they are in they are in. Dont see why the need to have them removed unless they are being a butthurt tard over something with the site or whatever dumb excuse they have. The removing a file due to the actual artist of the song is one thing, but asking to remove charts as a step artist, especially that many, nope.....

02-7-2013, 05:19 PM	#14
SK8R43 D7 Elite Keymasher Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: In My Room, 10101 Age: 33 Posts: 4,676	Re: Need some opinions In my opinion, No they should not be able to have them removed. They submitted them and therefore they should stay because they are a part of the site now. /2cents __________________ Thee Burstinator [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Last edited by Zageron; 02-7-2013 at 06:11 PM..

02-7-2013, 05:19 PM	#15
Crazyjayde FFR Veteran Wiki Administrator Join Date: May 2007 Location: Quebec Posts: 1,169	Re: Need some opinions I guess there needs to be some sort of agreement between the site and the simauthor, since both parties possess ownership over the file. If there is a way to discuss what content could be considered removable and what is not according to the views of players in the community, then it would be easier to agree on nice terms. Since we have no info whatsoever as of now, I'd suggest we can delimit a certain percent of total songs that can be removed, or a certain choice of songs that the community agrees on. It's the same as the music and movie industry, most content submitted from a party to another is to be handled by the latter. However, if it comes to music artists, I guess it's another issue. Last edited by Crazyjayde; 02-7-2013 at 05:27 PM..

02-7-2013, 05:20 PM	#17
qqwref stepmania archaeologist Join Date: Aug 2005 Age: 34 Posts: 4,090	Re: Need some opinions Yeah, I agree it's selfish. You don't get to just have your file removed for no reason... if it's a song permission thing I can understand, but someone just coming in and going "remove all my files pls lol"? That's just unreasonable. __________________ Best AAA: Policy In The Sky [Oni] (81) Best SDG: PANTS (86) Best FC: Future Invasion (93)

02-7-2013, 05:21 PM	#18
Garquillex FFR Veteran Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Massachusetts Age: 33 Posts: 965	Re: Need some opinions I think authors should be able to have lackluster files removed. It's better for general quality Some sort of democratic process could be used to determine if they should be removed. Throw them at the judges maybe. This would prevent people from pulling large amounts of songs or pulling a song just to resubmit it with a minor change (although note-sync changes I would welcome, see: Blue Noah vocal notes) __________________

02-7-2013, 05:23 PM	#20
Xx{Midnight}xX FFR Player Join Date: Aug 2007 Age: 31 Posts: 8,548	Re: Need some opinions It depends on reasoning and length of time it's been in game. If they are just embarrassed by mounds of mistakes and it hasn't been in game that long, sure let them remove it and fix it. Stuff like that happens. But if they're reasoning is "people are hating on me and my files" then honestly, I'd say go ahead and remove them, but also prevent future submissions. They obviously can't handle the process at that point and shouldn't waste judge's time. Also, after a set amount of time they shouldn't be allowed to be removed. What this amount of time is, I don't have a ballpark idea.

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