TWG CIV: FFR Tournament - Reality Parallax

[dAnceguy117]

Originally Posted by dAnceguy117

town reads
_____
Gradiant
Charu
pntballa
Funnygurl

- Gradiant was asking me a few general TWG questions near the start of the game. it seemed like I was one of the first people he talked to. a wolf can fake that or legitimately not yet be in contact with the others, but I didn't get that impression at all.

- Charu and I talked in Mumble a bit at the beginning of the game. at one point, he totally forgot that wolves already know who's a human and who's not. again wolves can theoretically fake that, but I don't think that's the explanation. also he just claimed seer. so there's that.

- pntballa has been grilling me some via Skype. I find that most wolves forget they're supposed to do that in OOT games. also I really really thought V was town early.

- Funnygurl picked up a few votes in Day 1 for, in my opinion, no good reason. also Funnygurl was Riot's only wolf "read" for, like, forever. total BS.





more after i eat. someone tell me when to stop i guess

[dAnceguy117]

Originally Posted by dAnceguy117

null
_____
Raeko
Kraut
fojar

- I liked Raeko's vote on Riot. her short explanation was exactly what I was thinking at that point in time. that's all I can remember from her.

- I don't blame Kraut for his quick and unchanging James vote, as the tone James was posting with near death is a pretty common wolf tell.

- I have almost nothing to say about fojar. I have James and pnt as human, so he's 0/2 in my book, which doesn't look great. that's a pretty weak indicator though.

[dAnceguy117]

that's pretty much all I got. pop me questions if you want. otherwise,

[FoJaR]

well statistically i was wrong about james, there's a chance he was the master wolf but it is small and to play on the assumption that he was is stupid.

danceguy is the obvious lynch for today, but rushing things with a confirmed red is stupid.

in regards to riotpolice: yes, lying is generally a bad idea as a human, but the more important thing is why he was lying. as i was saying in mumble before this game started, i've lied as a human (to try and expose wolves) and it's come back to bite me, when if people had been paying attention they would have seen two obvious wolves.

so basically i want to hear from riotpolice WHY he lied to danceguy, and i want to hear from danceguy why this particular lie implicates riotpolice as a wolf, other than "he lied therefore wolf"

[pntballa18]

And with that, everyone has been online and had an opportunity to counterclaim. dAnceguy117

[FoJaR]

why not let the riot/danceguy rap battle finish before making the obvious lynch?

oh, you dont want information?

strange

[pntballa18]

Originally Posted by FoJaR

why not let the riot/danceguy rap battle finish before making the obvious lynch?

oh, you dont want information?

strange

One vote doesn't stop any information.

But honestly, i think the james/RP thing is misguided at best. RP said he didn't know james had a skype account when he actually said something to him in the TWG chat? Cool, he either lied or forgot. Let's assume he lied for the sake of discussion. RP was seered green, and James flipped green. So at least one of them is a human, probably both. But, again for the sake of discussion, let's assume RP is the MW. What does he stand to gain from lying about knowing James had a skype? I can't think of anything, let me know if you can.

The whole argument started before we had either of their colors, and now that we have both, it just doesn't make any sense. But on top of that, the senseless argument is being pushed by someone who was just seered red.

[FoJaR]

more talking = more information

more voting = less information

i mean it's not that big of a problem since you're the only one so far, but lack of counterclaim should not signal the start for lynch.

there is no reason not to stretch this day out.

[Svaz]

I talked to riotpolice in mumble and then in skype the next day and he didn't remember talking to me in mumble until I told him about it (this is probably because he didn't associate my voice with me). I'm willing to believe that riot just doesn't take meticulous note of stuff like that until later. Granted, I came out of the chat I had with him feeling suspicious and like he might be worthy of scrutiny within the thread, but I don't really feel this way as much now...

Oddly enough, I don't have a really strong inclination to lynch dAnce because I've felt he was fairly strongly human this whole time. I get that it makes the most cognitive sense to go for him, but, yeah, like FoJaR said and like I bemoaned earlier, we are going way too fast.

[Svaz]

Originally Posted by dAnceguy117

Svaz has been in commentary mode the whole game. "you idiots, you lynched James way too quickly!" while true, I think it's really easy to say that and pin the blame on the aggressors while having no stake in any of the lynches, which is what she's been doing.

I can concede that it's a pretty easy position to take. I tend to approach situations very slowly and cautiously. I like to wait for things to develop; like any good photograph, you have to give each composition the right amount of exposure and time. Too long in the developer and your picture will be too muddled (with information), too brief, and you will only have a vague sense of the forms within the picture. It'll be too hard to ascertain what's going on, and I feel like this is where we are now.

By the way, I wouldn't know any of this stuff about photography without the knowledge and insight of Mr Staples. You can find his helpouts page here and learn new approaches to your tired, old, selfie-only pictures. Maybe you'll even take a picture of something that matters for a change, who knows!

But I digress. I understand that there's a point where discussion lasts too long, and I'm fairly confident we're not yet at this point.

[dAnceguy117]

Originally Posted by FoJaR

in regards to riotpolice: yes, lying is generally a bad idea as a human, but the more important thing is why he was lying. as i was saying in mumble before this game started, i've lied as a human (to try and expose wolves) and it's come back to bite me, when if people had been paying attention they would have seen two obvious wolves.

so basically i want to hear from riotpolice WHY he lied to danceguy, and i want to hear from danceguy why this particular lie implicates riotpolice as a wolf, other than "he lied therefore wolf"

Riotpolice insists that he did not remember James May having a Skype account. he restated this last night in the group chat. I don't believe he's actually that forgetful.

why would this lie implicate him as a wolf, if he is indeed lying? because there's no reason to continually deny that you talked to someone when you actually did, unless you're hiding something. James May was a plain human, so Riotpolice wasn't lying in order to protect a human power role.

I agree with pnt that it wouldn't make much sense for a wolf to lie about talking to a human, either. but gauging from his reactions, I do think he's lying. perhaps Riotpolice planned to answer all "did you talk to ______" questions with "no" in order to avoid further questions. again, I conclude that he has something to hide.

Originally Posted by Svaz

I can concede that it's a pretty easy position to take. I tend to approach situations very slowly and cautiously.

I certainly wouldn't want to lynch someone for trying to proceed with caution. I think you look kinda wolfy because you haven't made any important votes, which can allow a wolf to skate by in stealth mode while humans try to plot out connections.

pointing out that quick instalynches are bad for the town is a good way to make it look like your actions are pro-town, especially if you already know the lynch will result in a human flip. it's definitely speculation on my part; that's the way I'm seeing it.

great analogies though.

[Charu]

Oddly enough, there really hasn't been much discussion in here after I told you folks, and it's been almost 24 hours. I agree with the folks that said more discussion is needed, but thus far, nothing has been given out.

Originally Posted by FoJaR

why not let the riot/danceguy rap battle finish before making the obvious lynch?

oh, you dont want information?

strange

I guess this is an expected reaction from you, considering I don't even think you're in the Skype chat or even have Skype I think... do you?

The rap battle between dance and Riot took place in the Skype chat.

I guess since no one else is going to do it, I might as well make some points.

Consider these possibilities.

SCENARIO ONE
----------------------------------------------------------------

dance is a miller, then yeah, because of his red sign, all of his reads and statements now are all thrown out the window, including that rap with him and Riot. BUT, his questions he asked Riot within the Skype chat and how Riot responded to majority of them made me really raise my eyebrows.

Riot was constantly brushing off dance, laughing at him, which sure, that's what probably a gloating green would do... maybe. But, dance then asked him this question.

"What is your role then?"

This simple question... had Riot hesitate for some reason. He didn't answer right away, he took his time. Then he answered with a joke role and laughed at dance again. When dance questioned again, all he said was "lol".

Finally after 3 or so minutes of this, he answered he was just green. Now why on EARTH did it take that long for Riot to answer back? Why was he not giving a serious answer afterwords?

Clearly... if dance is a miller, this stinks like a rotten potatoe.
----------------------------------------------------------------

---

SCENARIO TWO

----------------------------------------------------------------
dance is the wolf and because Riot has been playing a really weird game, he's using this to his advantage and calling him out.

He's using my huge suspicions of him and using my statement that I think he's the MW as leverage to pit Riot in a hole so he would most likely be targeted later days or used by the remaining wolves near the end game.

The little rap battle he did in the chat was all just a ruse to make Riot's weird play-style come into light and using his play as a means to get at him.

I recall the James May votes. Riot is playing similarly to James, albeit he's not as vocal and constantly labeling himself as defense. dance might be using this too as means for us to question his sincerity and his weird plays.
----------------------------------------------------------------

And... well, that's all for me regarding THOSE two in particular.

[Funnygurl555]

There may also be two more scenarios:

They could both be wolves. Riot could be the MW and dance could be a wolf. Knowing that he is going to be eliminated, dance could be suspecting Riot as some sort of distancing tactic. This may have already been used before dance was known to have flipped red, so if one went down, then the other one wouldn't.

They could both be town. Dance could be miller AND Riot could be villager. They may both just be screwing each other over by suspecting each other, causing us to lose a town when it was not completely necessary.
That being said, dance flipped red, and I understand that we should proceed with caution when figuring out what to do with him. I personally believe he's actually the miller though, because no one really suspected him prior to the seer read.

One more thing I'd like to add: Riot seemed very fishy to me since the end of Day 2, so I asked him a couple of questions yesterday. All I can say is he is either a very good liar or someone who screwed up pretty big, because his answers actually made some sense to me. That kind of makes me wonder why he did hesitate when asked what his role was in the skype chat last night... a good liar would not hesitate...

That's my two cents, guys. I'd like to see how this plays out.

[Krauthammer]

Either way, it doesn't really matter much if Dance is the Miller or not.

The only thing that matters is that he has to die.

What is for sure is that at the end of this phase, it is guaranteed a wolf will have died, whether it was yoman or Danceguy. And nobody is going to risk not lynching him, right?

I think enough time has been given to see what could sprout. Nothing significant, so I'm making my vote now.

Danceguy

[Funnygurl555]

Similar stuff was said in the skype chat about danceguy having to die. I get that he has to die now, but I still don't believe he's suspicious.
Ah well, 'least one wolf will be down.

[Riotpolice]

Funny, I agree with what you have to say about the situation in the second senario with dance. I can't trust myself to not lynch him for the sake of him being the miller, at least with both (YMIA + Dance) of them dead, we know for certain that, at least, 1 wolf is dead. End of story. Pretty tired right now from being outside all day, but I'm going to vote for dance (even though I really do think he's human) because there's no choice. We need to down a wolf, one way or another. For the sake of the game...

Dance, my vote is not against you personally, it's not even against the way you've been grilling me as hard as you possibly can in skype chats throughout the game. It's against the sandbaggers and for the sake of winning the game. And I do find it very unfortunate that we are losing you because you were seered red. This is why I'm voting for you: Dance.

[dAnceguy117]

*cough* *cough* bullshit *cough*

[Charu]

Hey folks, got an interesting proposition to try, hope you all like it.

So, we all know there's an IP Sharer still walking around. We also all know that the person's vote doubles. I propose this little excercise, dohoho.

So we're at 3 votes, right? Let me just go ahead and vote now so it's at 4. danceguy117

Now then. What I want everyone in this game to do is place their vote so dance gets to 5, then you unvote immediately, understood? We do this until either someone refuses or they vote and the day ends.

Sound good? I hope so.

[pntballa18]

Well this is a neat idea.

Just want to point out, it will only work if YMIA was an IP sharer. But 2/4 reds are IP sharers, so there's a reasonable chance this could work.

*popcorn*

[pntballa18]

also if you're going to vote, make a post saying so, wait 5 minutes, and then vote. otherwise we could get two people "accidentally" voting at the same time