Stepping Stones of Stepmania (Submissions Open!)

[FissionMailed1]

I'm going to do some reviews as well. Won't be able to get any done until the weekend though.

How high is the bar set for this pack, Ji? Is it like ODI3? It will change how I write my reviews if they are.

[mi40]

file quality should be as high as possible, esp since it's for beginner/intermed players

also do NOT look @ other people's reviews before writing your own reviews, i want clean, 100% unbiased honest reviews

[FissionMailed1]

Really stringent when judging, got it.

[bmah]

Originally Posted by FissionMailed1

How high is the bar set for this pack, Ji? Is it like ODI3?

GD would be very very unpleased.

edit: I don't recommend you change your reviews either just to "match" ODI3.

[FissionMailed1]

Originally Posted by bmah

GD would be very very unpleased.

Uhhh...?

Originally Posted by bmah

I don't recommend you change your reviews either just to "match" ODI3.

The reason I asked this is because I am going to let certain things slide, such as how repetitive a file is, depending on the standard.

[mi40]

there are no judging standards

judge not because you need to decide to let a file into the pack or not
judge to evaluate how one can improve the file further and whether or not the improved file will be enjoyable and memorable to its players & audience

thats how i think of it

also once again, do NOT look @ others' reviews before judging the files yourself, and if people's reviews don't really have much content & show lack of effort they will just be thrown out

[FissionMailed1]

Originally Posted by mi40

judge not because you need to decide to let a file into the pack or not

This was what I wasn't sure about. Thanks for clarifying.

[bmah]

Originally Posted by FissionMailed1

Uhhh...?

http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...9&postcount=66

"I just hope that this pack doesn't slingshot SM mentality back in the wrong direction though"

Originally Posted by FissionMailed1

The reason I asked this is because I am going to let certain things slide, such as how repetitive a file is, depending on the standard.

Well it sounded like you were gonna be more strict.

[moches]

submitted Ke$ha file becuz y0l0

look for more submissions in the near future !

[FissionMailed1]

Originally Posted by bmah

"I just hope that this pack doesn't slingshot SM mentality back in the wrong direction though"

Oh, yeah. That post. Not sure what he means by wrong direction though.

Originally Posted by bmah

Well it sounded like you were gonna be more strict.

My reviews were going to be strict without asking that anyways, so nothing changed.

[mi40]

Originally Posted by moches

submitted Ke$ha file becuz y0l0

look for more submissions in the near future !

yesssss pop is actually really good because it provides familiar music to newer/intermed players who are completely new to the usual stepmania music that not many have heard of

i think if i were new and if i had to play chiptune & breakcore etc i'd be taken aback, so ke$ha is p. goode

thankssse

Originally Posted by FissionMailed1

My reviews were going to be strict without asking that anyways, so nothing changed.

he meant wrong direction as in something elitist (if i remember correctly)
it doesn't really matter if you judge files "strictly" or not because whether or not you're lenient or strict, the file will have the same errors & outstanding parts so i guess when you say strict as in "i'm going to put time into finding all the possible room for improvement in this file so the file becomes better as a result" then yes

but if you mean strict as in "oh this file is X, not for this pack" or "yeha this file sucks rejected" then that's not good

[moches]

yay Ji likes my song choice

going to step some Britnaaay if I can find a good song

[Gundam-Dude]

Originally Posted by FissionMailed1

Oh, yeah. That post. Not sure what he means by wrong direction though.

My reviews were going to be strict without asking that anyways, so nothing changed.

There's a fine line between being "strict" and being completely biased and an elitist douchebag. Back in the so called "chancellor" days (and even dating before that) is where the entire mentality of SM went completely in the wrong direction because certain individuals wanted files to be art masterpieces or 100% technically correct down to the last arrow when in actuality there is no objectively correct way or method of making a simfile other than syncing correctly—everything you judge that isn't related to file sync is completely and wholeheartedly subjective in the end. In those days, files that had no outstanding errors were purposely rejected for bullshit subjective reasons such as "bad song choice" or "the file was boring", etc.

No two people judging the same file will have the same opinions on everything, which causes a displacement between the simfile author submitting files to a pack and the judges. This brings up the issue of agreements between parties and the argumentation of what can be deemed "acceptable" for the pack at hand—this is one of the reasons why I loathe having a panel of judges and I decided to do the sole judge gig for my own packs.

My sole concern with ODIPack3 is that after having a pack full of supposedly "the best of the best" files, people would then be inclined to push back to how things were in the past rather than my futile efforts to push the community more towards acknowledging the majority of players out there who are complete casuals, and opening people's minds up to the countless ways of simfile making. Ultimately, people will be blindsided by our niche little elitist minority community here on FFR, and want to go back to making more files that casuals can't play or don't enjoy, or even back to the "wow these files are so boring and the song sucks ass" mentality. If that was the case, every pack I've done since LCP3 down to the FFR Season Packs were a complete fucking waste of time and effort and there's practically no good reason for me to continue doing anything at this point.

For this pack's target demographic and intention, you guys should loosen up on the strictness and standards. Focus less on technicalities and focus on what your target demographic of players finds enjoyable and fun. None of the people you're aiming this pack towards actually give a fuck about file technicality and artful masterpieces—they just simply want a file they can easily understand, follow, and find enjoyable playing. Again, this leads back to my point of having select individuals that will voluntarily play test files in this pack to get the most out of what you're trying to aim towards.

[dAnceguy117]

Originally Posted by mi40

necros' reviews
information leak - edit it
the song should be definitely cut. if you can't do it yourself properly find someone who can do it for you. The chart has some dumb difficulty spikes with the 16th jumps sections and especially the 24ths at the end. don't be afraid to use some jumps to accent sounds around the song and instead tone down the harder parts. i want to see a resubmit for this, get on it.

good point about the 16th jumptrills. they're super easy for all of us but probably out of line for newer players.

to be honest, I have no idea how to represent the 24th section as anything other than 24ths. even a straight trill would be a huge difficulty spike for new players >_> I'll see what I can come up with though.

do you think it would make sense to cut everything before 1:10?

thx for feedback!

[mi40]

GD ,, necros & i & some others have found volunteers
new and intermediate players who haven't played SM for more than 3-6 months (hell some of em have only played for like 2 weeks) to play and give us actual feedback

also i don't know why some people are going off on judging process, i'll throw out reviews if i deem them biased or too strict

as you can see the judging process is NOT about "this file passes" or "this file doesn't pass"

it's going to be "okay the song is nice and the length is just about right, now how can we make it so that your chart is replayable and good for beginning & intermediate players?"

i hope that clears some stuff up and i hope you guys keep submitting - even newer people! don't be hesitant since we'll try our best to give accurate feedback and give suggestions

[FissionMailed1]

Originally Posted by Gundam-Dude

post

It isn't my decision in the end to determine what gets accepted. I'm just giving feedback

[mi40]

gd if you're not swamped with work or school you should help too l0le

[Mollocephalus]

Originally Posted by Gundam-Dude

For this pack's target demographic and intention, you guys should loosen up on the strictness and standards. Focus less on technicalities and focus on what your target demographic of players finds enjoyable and fun. None of the people you're aiming this pack towards actually give a fuck about file technicality and artful masterpieces—they just simply want a file they can easily understand, follow, and find enjoyable playing. Again, this leads back to my point of having select individuals that will voluntarily play test files in this pack to get the most out of what you're trying to aim towards.

Did you read my reviews? We're trying to make good fun files for low/intermediate players while making charts that are also somewhat technically accurate and pleasant to play even for an advanced player who wants to chill (mostly on the highest diffs). I don't see why we should not suggest things to change in a file if there is room for improvement.

[stargroup100]

Originally Posted by mi40

virus (cosmovibe) - accept w/ cut and little fix
- good song choice, except it repeats starting @ 106s, i think if you cut the song @ precisely like... 106.68s (thats the time on my editor), basically i think the last note should be the [134] hand you have after the trilly part, i think that would make the song a good length of 1:47, perfect imo
- the hands in heavy felt kind of hard but the heavy chart is meant for intermed players so i think it's fine
- light chart is good, nice difficulty management

virus - accepted with minor fixes
this file is amazing, it really fucking owns! but… was it necessary to make it long the entire song? i think the second part which repeats is entirely useless. Easy chart is really well done But still would greatly benefit from a cut. One little note: measure 25 needs something to accent the sudden lack of sound. Also i noticed a particular sound which may need more attention starting at measure 43 and happening a bit around the song which could use a 16th minijack to be highlighted. It feels like it's missing right now…

about length/cutting:
personally I feel like 3.5 min isn't that long. in my mind anyways, having a piece repeat once is fine, because the first time is "fresh", and the second time gives the players 1. more of chance to understand the music better the second time around, 2. lets them experience the variations of the piece when they happen second time around, 3. lets the players experience the ending of the song (in this case), 4. gives them the impression that the song is almost like a "boss" level, something a bit more impactful when it deserves it/can live up to expectations. I've noticed that I really enjoyed this trait about a lot of charts from odi pack, which is why I felt the desire to repeat it

measure 25: I have no idea what you're talking about

measure 43: are you sure it's measure 43? I hear absolutely nothing there

[mi40]

i'm not sure if new players will notice that the chart has changed the 2nd time around besides the ending since well, they're too busy trying to fc if possible

3.5 min isn't that long i'll agree so i'll have my roommates actually playtest (they only played a few other files so far) and see what they have to say