TWG XLII Host Voting

[DiscoBobbyPARANOiA]

I think it's my job to do this.

Anyone with ideas for the next twg, post 'em and I'll add them to this post.

-

I don't know if both of these are considered seperate suggestions, I haven't had much time to look over this, so I'm adding both of them.

Rioting's idea:

A "wolf bite" power for the wolves would add a level of uncertainty to the play. The way that works: once per game during the night phase any surviving wolves can vote for one non-wolf player to "bite" and convert that player into a wolf. However they can only perform this action if after they have bitten someone greens/blues outnumber reds by at least 1. So, for example:

Legal:
3 Wolves, 7 Humans/Blues >>> bite >>> 4 Wolves, 6 Humans/Blues.
2 Wolves, 5 Humans/Blues >>> bite >>> 3 Wolves, 4 Humans/Blues.

Illegal:
3 Wolves, 3 Humans/Blues >>> bite >>> 4 Wolves, 2 Humans/Blues.
3 Wolves, 5 Humans/Blues >>> bite >>> 4 Wovles, 4 Humans/Blues.

Additionally the bite action turns the master wolf (if alive) into a regular wolf. If the wolves try to convert the wolfsbane, a random wolf dies and the wolfsbane does not convert. A conversion cannot be prevented by either guard or wolfsbane, except in the case where wolves try to convert they wolfsbane themself. However, if the wolves convert a blue person, the wolves can gain their power as follows:

Seer >>> bite >>> Wolf Seer
Psychic >>> bite >>> Master Wolf (old master wolf still becomes regular)
Guardian >>> bite >>> Regular Wolf
Wolfsbane >>> bite >>> One of the wolves dies


The game I would propose with this setup would be:

16 Players

• 1 Guardian
• 1 Psychic (don't know if it's necessary, but could help in detecting bites)
• 1 Seer
• 1 Wolfsbane
  
  
• 2 Regular Wolves
• 1 Master Wolf
  
  
• 9 Humans
  
  
• Reversed voting (vote for most human)

Stoic's idea:

Seeing the general consensus above and also being an advocate of non-traditional games, I think we should aim to implement some form of mechanic change into the current game idea, along with reversed voting. Like wilkin pointed out, chardish's statue game was fairly well thought-out and gave the game a lot more to ponder over.

I think we should try and go somewhere with talisman's artifact idea. Thinking it over very briefly, here's the what I have so far:

2 Perception artifacts
2 Deception artifacts
2 Protection artifacts
2 Charismatic artifacts
1 Good-luck artifact
1 Unknown artifact

with:

2 Wolves
2 Wolf thieves

4 Humans
4 Human thieves
3 Human artifact decipherers
1 Human master thief

At the start of the game, the artifacts will be randomly distributed among all players, including wolves. Each night, anyone with a thief role can PM the name of one person they'd like to steal from. If this person has 1 or more artifacts, the thief steals them. If multiple people try and steal from the same person, it will be randomly determined who actually succeeds. If the master thief attempts to steal from someone with an artifact, or more, he will always succeed. If no one attempts to steal from the owner of an artifact, there is a 50% chance it will be lost and randomly found by another player, including wolves. If an artifact decipherer comes into possession of an artifact, they will be able to immediately recognize it's abilities and use it accordingly.

Each artifact will have a functional power for both the wolves and the humans, but the exact details of the artifacts are unknown to all.

- possible reverse voting


SO FAR

Stoic (2) - DBP, iggy

[sertman]

Iggy and I were talking on AIM when he mentioned that the wolves had become too predictable and that he'd like to see more "ballsy" wolves.

Any ideas on a role or a rule that'll encourage more "ballsiness" in wolves?

[iggymatrixcounter]

Mystery roles, IMO, really allowed a lot of creativity with wolf strategies when we were doing that. But I do not think the thread is willing to go back to that type of game.

I've always thought that if every blue role was a red role then that may spark some fakness but with the outlinings of this game (bearing certain circumstances of course) that even then faking would not be tried.

[DiscoBobbyPARANOiA]

I would be willing to play a mystery role game. Actually, I want to play one, it sounds really fun right now...

[Kilgamayan]

I thought I was pretty ballsy in XL. >_>

[iggymatrixcounter]

Infiltration should be a wolf tactic anyways. I'm talking about an all-out bluff in character that results in "WTF YOU WERE A WOLF!!!!!" at postgame.

Kind of like what hans did to me when I was a seer and he bluffed his knowledge as a wolf into a blue role.... and got away with it.

THAT'S balls imo.

[Kilgamayan]

Well, the problem is that no one wants to get caught, so no one is willing to stick out their neck.

I would have no problem doing it but I have zero experience as a non-mason blue role at this site and it would most definitely show in whatever capacity I tried to present myself in.

[Afrobean]

Let's just do a mystery role game.

But throw the numbers by someone who can know if something is balanced but is not playing. I'm sure Tass wouldn't object to helping out with numbers.

So who would want to host a mystery role game?

[Kilgamayan]

I'll do it, but not until Game 45.

[iggymatrixcounter]

Gee I wonder why lol.

I think all mystery role games are too opened ended to quantify them exactly. If you don't add things that are too powerful then I think you will be ok. Because the potential and actual gameplay of any given setup is way overstated given the philosophies of TWG.

If everyone wants to play a mystery game that's fine. I thought people didn't like them so that's why I was unfavorable for it. Shoot I love craziness. Anything that gets people active is perfect TWG imo.

[StoicRoivaS]

I had an idea that I think Iggy mentioned a while ago. If not I either made it up or it was someone else. Either way, I need to talk to you, Iggy, whenever I catch you online next. I'll run it by you and we can go from there. I'll host if we use my idea, but otherwise, I'd be all for some mystery-blue craziness.

[talisman]

We need a game where there's something substantive to talk about day one. A mystery game could potentially make day one suck a lot more than normal.

[rioting]

I was talking to Stoic the other day (and I think he had discussed something similar with Iggy) about some possibilities for an interesting game:

The voting structure would be different, designed to encourage participation. Instead of voting to lynch, every person votes on the person they feel is the most "green". The person with the lowest number of votes is lynched. The details on that need to be finalized...

• What happens in the likely case of tie ==> Random KIB or Lowest number of votes among all lynch rounds?
• Can people vote for themselves ==> They probably shouldn't be allowed to.
• Number of votes ==> Two per person? Fewer in the end game?

Also, a "wolf bite" power for the wolves would add a level of uncertainty to the play. The way that works: once per game during the night phase any surviving wolves can vote for one non-wolf player to "bite" and convert that player into a wolf. However they can only perform this action if after they have bitten someone greens/blues outnumber reds by at least 1. So, for example:

Legal:
3 Wolves, 7 Humans/Blues >>> bite >>> 4 Wolves, 6 Humans/Blues.
2 Wolves, 5 Humans/Blues >>> bite >>> 3 Wolves, 4 Humans/Blues.

Illegal:
3 Wolves, 3 Humans/Blues >>> bite >>> 4 Wolves, 2 Humans/Blues.
3 Wolves, 5 Humans/Blues >>> bite >>> 4 Wovles, 4 Humans/Blues.

Additionally the bite action turns the master wolf (if alive) into a regular wolf. If the wolves try to convert the wolfsbane, a random wolf dies and the wolfsbane does not convert. A conversion cannot be prevented by either guard or wolfsbane, except in the case where wolves try to convert they wolfsbane themself. However, if the wolves convert a blue person, the wolves can gain their power as follows:

Seer >>> bite >>> Wolf Seer
Psychic >>> bite >>> Master Wolf (old master wolf still becomes regular)
Guardian >>> bite >>> Regular Wolf
Wolfsbane >>> bite >>> One of the wolves dies


The game I would propose with this setup would be:

16 Players

• 1 Guardian
• 1 Psychic (don't know if it's necessary, but could help in detecting bites)
• 1 Seer
• 1 Wolfsbane
  
  
• 2 Regular Wolves
• 1 Master Wolf
  
  
• 9 Humans
  
  
• Reversed voting (vote for most human)

Please look this over to see if you think it's unfair or how it might be changed to balance it if it is not. I think this game could be fun and somewhat unpredictable and the modified voting system should work to prevent inactivity. I'm not really interested in hosting a game, but I'm putting this out there in case someone wants to go with it.

[iggymatrixcounter]

I've always wanted to see a game run where you needed votes to not get lynched!!

I can see voting patterns being more useful. Plus people are going to be spouting stuff the whole game (If they care).

@Rioting: That looks really good but I would suggest either a seer or wolfsbane, not both. I've never really liked the psychic role but it looks like it has a bigger purpose so it's a good idea.

But I don't exactly remember what I talked about with stoic, but my idea of the fewest votes only allowed a person to get 2 votes on them. (It stops the wolves from wolfing the person with the most votes XD) AND it makes late voting harder since you are going to have to justify yourself or something.

Also I don't know exactly how the numbers would run, but discussing whether or not to vote should be taken into consideration too. (I.E. "I think everyone that can be voted is wolfy so I vote b no one b") Or something along those lines.

I will be thinking about this a little more though since it has been brought up. But even if this gets implimented, there needs to be that discussion of strategy day1 so it's still missing that aspect imo.

[talisman]

reverse voting seems problematic. I can see far too many orgies of ties occurring.

I've been mulling over the possibilities of introducing artifacts to the game that grant the owner certain powers into the game (and which can move between players as the result of a variety of actions). For example, instead of there being a seer, there would be a seer artifact, which would float from player to player on some sort of system (could be random, could be voted upon [secretly or publicly], could be after solving a host-provided riddle or puzzle) each night. This would also allow for the wolves to be ballsy and have plenty of cover to come out and pretend that they have seen someone.

This idea is still in its infancy, if someone wants to run with it/expand on it feel free.

[iggymatrixcounter]

Well with the reverse voting if it's between a bunch of zero votes there's really nothing to do except a kitb, but if it's a tie with anyone else that has votes then you can just make the rule where the person who got the vote last is gone. Could be interesting (But the only way there would be 1 vote in the lead for a lynch is if everyone voted someone else and no one got 2 votes.)

Or have some type of system where you have a vote that counts as 3 votes and one that counts for 1 or something and no one can get more than 4 votes. You can always modify it to fit what you need to have happen.

[sertman]

I've been thinking about the bite idea + the artifacts idea. I'm just going to type what I think as I think it through.

It might not be a good idea to have a psychic artifact if this was implemented... otherwise if a wolf claims seer and gets a human lynch, if when the psychic report comes up as no wolves down, that wolf is ****ed. However, with the biting being in the game, the wolf could just claim that the wolves bit a human on that night to even out the wolves to throw suspicion on him. And as this would be the defense of a true seer who actually seered a wolf and got him lynched, it would be tricky to see who can be convincing enough to survive as a seer, assuming we're rotating once per day? However, that would mean that if there's only one bite, it would be dumb for a wolf to claim seer if a bite has already occured, so after the bite happens, my guess is that there will only be human seers coming out afterwards.

After thinking it out, I'd believe the psychic would be necessary just so the game doesn't turn into a bunch of seer calls.

[Wilkin]

I think we need to make a game more exciting not necessarily by different roles (though it could help), but by also a new element in general, like the statue in chardish's game in the early 30's, or the lottery voting for a guard. Maybe mix one or two roles to take advantage of that aspect and it could be a decent game.

[iggymatrixcounter]

Yea it's not the roles that make the game. It's how different they can be used is what is more important.

90% of day1 discussion is what to do IMO. So if nothing can be said, there wil be no day1.

[Kilgamayan]

The solution to the "voting who's the most human" style is to give everyone two or three votes. That should leave very few people, if any, with zero.