TWG CI: Fiction's Birthday Party

[Charu]

I know it sounds like I'm defending you, but truly, I can't be the only one failing to see this.

[DarkManticoreX2]

I'll make the post anyway once this is over fic. Stop nagging me!

[DarkManticoreX2]

Originally Posted by Charu

I know it sounds like I'm defending you, but truly, I can't be the only one failing to see this.

I'll explain because I know where Fic's coming from.

[DarkManticoreX2]

I don't know who should explain because this is a circle of i know what fiction's thinking/Fic expects certain things of me.

[dAnceguy117]

re-bolding for great justice. V

V has 10 posts. The low total is not suspicious on its own, but it's unusual for V; again, acting out of character is not suspicious on its own, but it amplifies other signals he's emitting.

Here are 7 of V's posts in chronological order.

Originally Posted by Vendetta21

I've been trying to step back a little more on day one as in games past I have dominated the outcome and felt that it has only hurt the game. What I've seen is a lot of noise, and not a lot of signal. I think some things people are doing are genuinely weird.

I wouldn't call danceguy wolfy. Don't think he's a good lynch candidate. Changing his vote four times on day one? Either he's so self-aware of how he plays (doubtful) that he can playfully mimic his human game as a wolf or he's a human who has the drive to just do something to get the game started. What this indicates to me is that the people who are jumping on this are just bad at reading (more possible) or wolf (less possible) but depending on how you navigate and organize your thoughts in a game like this, I would make a note on in your .txt or on your piece of paper on day 1 of who jumped on the danceguy train.

Jrodd is handing out villa reads like they're ACLU pamphlets or something. This is somewhat interesting to me. I feel there's something cocky going on here, might be getting a little too full of his abilities. This is a thing to watch.

I haven't read a word fiction has wrote yet. And most everyone else didn't peak my attention.

But so far on day one charu takes the fucking cake (lol) for posting absolutely nothing of merit, making a concerted effort to appear visible, and having the most placating and neutral tone in the game. Yeah I get that part of that is his personality from talking on mumble, but I still get a strong sense of detachment from him actually playing.

With this post, V

- avoids the amassing wagon on me
- gives helpful but generic advice
- places a vote on a new player

A little weird, but not alarming. Moving on.

Originally Posted by Vendetta21

i spent the six hours i was going to spend writing my diatribe on a bus today helping a friend navigate the seattle bus system, and i didn't realize i was running out of time. saw the day end lynch literally when i was dowtown outside the exiting crowds of the sounders game in shitty traffic with bad service. i'm pretty disappointed in myself for not paying better attention.

will post my full day 1 analysis on tuesday.

V's alibi for not being available is probably true regardless of his role. What strikes me here is his use of the word "diatribe." Townies post diatribes when they are convinced they've spotted a wolf. V's Day 1 vote wasn't all that forceful, and he begins Day 2 with...

Originally Posted by Vendetta21

So let's start off this phase right. Jrodd and fiction it doesn't really matter what roles you are you are playing this game with way too much confidence.

I always find confidence, while being an extremely attractive quality, to also lead to a lack of self-awareness. You get happy, you get comfortable, you stop scrutinizing yourself for how you can improve, and then your presence of mind fades. The GM of my company is excessively confident and he wears magnet bracelets and those minima shoes with individual toe pockets. No one will tell him he's ridiculous, and he rarely exists in that state of mind where he applies scrutiny to himself.

The question this brings me to ask you two is why are you so comfortable with your playstyle right now? I mean jrodd calls out every villager read and then changes it later. Fiction literally posts every single thought that pops into his head. Are you just that good that your unfettered opinions are all you need to bring to the table?

And I guess the far bigger, far more pressing question is why are you both so comfortable that you decided to argue about your dispositions at night? And I don't care about your rationalizations for the arguments specifics since there is barely any acceptable reason to do that in any game and I believe both of you were fully cognizant of your rationalizations when you posted.

Far more interesting to me is how you rationalize your comfort with the behavoir, what made you open in the first place to chosing to behave in that way during that time -- what were you seeking to gain? This is the question I can't anwser.

Interesting thoughts, but in no way aggressive. His use of the word "diatribe" combined with his apparent lack of convictions shows a disconnect between what he's saying and what he's thinking.

Originally Posted by Vendetta21

Day 1 was mostly a lot of danceguy, fiction, and jrodd arguing.

Using activity as a litmus test for humanness I wouldn't really consider any of them high priority targets because to be that active that early into the game is the sort of things humans with experience do. Fiction is the only person I don't give this sort of deference to completely because he has sweet talked his way through a wolf role many times.

Still the person who stands out to me the most is charu, and that's because his tone still has a sort of friendly reticence to it. It's the sort of thing the concerns me because his meta has already established that you can't expect much out of him. (Probably because he is too dumb and/or emotionally walled off by that pleasant exterior to actually say how he feels about something.)

Manti definitely is wolfy for his whining about the lack of powers of a wolf role, but to bandwagon this early makes me feel like we are wasting our time with many hours left in the phase. I don't feel like this is such a wholly condemning tell to kill him just yet. He also hasn't really provided anything useful to think about this game. I ask myself what we are gaining by bandwagoning manti right now, and given the lack of prods and attacks I feel it is not much. His day one play was pretty lackluster though.

Manti do you really feel that in order for you to play this game successfully you must rely on my browbeating of others? I kinda think that is horseshit, and has almost become this trope you subscribe to. I feel like you were successful in this game well before I started playing with you. I mean I guess it's always possible that your play has become shitty and lazy because you've found someone else to do the work for you.

I'm concerned about the replacements. Replacing has a strong tendency to help wolves and wolves tend to do this when they realize that they don't feel up to the challenge of lying for two weeks straight.

TPS222

I'm curious as to what made you vote manti and I also want to know your opinion of danceguy and crazyjayde thus far.

Talks a lot about Charu and Manti, and then votes TPS. Zoning in for a sec here:

Originally Posted by Vendetta21

Manti definitely is wolfy for his whining about the lack of powers of a wolf role

It doesn't sound like V believes what he's saying. The reasoning is bogus too SORRY JRODD

Originally Posted by Vendetta21

but to bandwagon this early makes me feel like we are wasting our time with many hours left in the phase.

Manti had 3 votes on him (4 from insta). This is out of place and sounds forced.

Next post:

Originally Posted by Vendetta21

Defensive without any offensive. Hmm.

Suggests suspicion of Manti without ever placing a vote. V could be avoiding piling onto a mislynch, avoiding voting his teammate, or focusing on an easier target (Charu).

Originally Posted by Vendetta21

As a baseline a question I tend to ask myself about each player is "why are they playing this game? What motivates them to play TWG?" This is perhaps the first and most valuable question one must ask about a player.

Some people like a puzzle they can never be sure if they are solving or not. Some people like to obsess over the details to find some logical or behavioral aberration. Some people like to display how smart they are. None of these seem to fit you. Do you get why that concerns me?

It concerns me because it leaves me with two ways of perceiving your behavior. The first is that you are only playing because you like this environment in which others are forced to read and respond to what you say because it's a pretty good way for your attention-seeking behaviors to be sated. The second is that you are riding your internet facsimile of a personality that has a least some recognition here on these forums because you were thrown a tough role in an uncomfortable environment.

I called you dumb, and then no sooner than the letters left my fingertips you acted dumb. It lead me to believe that the response was adaptive. You write clean, complete sentences. You ask questions. And yet you miss blaringly obvious details about Manti. I give you my impression of you and you run with it faster. I interpret that as a veil you are using to defend yourself, to keep yourself walled off from actually making commitments, or giving analysis, or anything at all.

I'm going to watch you eat rope, charu.

A quick return to V's usual style. Not telling in itself.

Originally Posted by Vendetta21

Charu you aren't thriving here, that is a perception only you are holding.

The thing you are missing about Manti is the obvious wolf tell that people are openly discussing. It was my hope that in making that point clear you might consider reviewing the thread and look for what I was talking about. That thought apparently didn't cross your mind?

You are tasked with trying to find lying liars through the lies they tell. Manti currently has three votes and you are softly defending him and ignoring what is wolfy?

I also don't think your personality is incapable of playing this game, I just think you are chosing not to engage. You don't pay to enter a starcraft tournament so that you can talk to your opponents. You do that to beat them at starcraft.

Refers to Manti again

Originally Posted by Vendetta21

The thing you are missing about Manti is the obvious wolf tell that people are openly discussing.

I have to believe that a town V would see an "obvious wolf tell" from Manti and attack instead of going after a new player. Townie V goes for the glory. That doesn't match what I'm seeing.

[dAnceguy117]

I will get out of the habit of making massive, unreadable attack posts someday. Today is not that day.

V has:
- had a lower postcount than usual
- avoided the only two wagons we've seen, aside from the one on pntballa
- shown a disconnect between what he's saying and what he's thinking
- stated the obvious
- prodded without intent of gathering information
- suggested suspicion without showing conviction
- only attacked the newest player in the game

Lynch.



Repost:

Originally Posted by dAnceguy117

Town, vote with me if you think V is a wolf, but don't blindly follow. If you disagree, vote elsewhere. An organic lynch process will give us more information.

[DarkManticoreX2]

Fiction expects me to guide people away from bad lynches come end of day phases because I will vehemently defend people I don't think should be lynched. This is because my main desire playing twg is to win. That being said I had already taken the stance of "DANCEGUY IS OBVIOUSLY HUMAN WHY ARE YOU VOTING FOR HIM MORONS". Fiction expected me to step up to the plate and flat out tell everyone who was voting danceguy to pick a different target.

Originally Posted by FictionJunction

I think that opportunity presented itself a number of times.

I didn't do that. In fact I wasn't even around for the end of the day phase (not sure where you got me viewing the thread from during that time j-rodd). I let a lot of people place votes all over the place, and didn't put in much effort directing the lynch towards yoman/tps who was my vote.

I don't have any superb reasoning why I didn't get involved though. I wasn't really interested, knew my read was weak, and the eagles-broncos game was way higher on my priority list.

[FictionJunction]

Originally Posted by Charu

But is it obvious?

No, because it's going back to what I said about mind games and second guessing. Questioning yourself "why did he say this" is a stupid tactic that 80% of the time will be wrong unless you know this guy 100%, front and back, his personal life, his behavior stance, how to tell when he's joking or not.

And to put this all together, you need to know all of this through pure black text.

I fail to see this as "obvious."

it's actually not.

Here I'll prove it to you.

You'll think I'm red because I'm accusing manti, who you think is not red, of being red. I'm not red. Good job.

[FictionJunction]

You guys gotta get on my level playing field yo otherwise all of this is just gonna be greek 2 u

[FictionJunction]

Do you guys remember I said something about how projecting your own views onto someone else is not how to play twg?

I don't think I've projected my own views onto anything. In fact, we have Manti here accepting that he KNOWS WHERE I'M COMING FROM because there are CERTAIN THINGS HE DOES AND IS EXPECTED TO DO UNDER CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES.

[FictionJunction]

which I suppose you are ismply unaware of because you're INEXPERIENCED but keep pushing those buttons because you'll get lynched. AND GUESS WHAT. IT's just as much your responsibility to not get lynched as it is to catch wolves if you're green.

Guess who doesn't have that responsibility: me.

[FictionJunction]

Maybe if you actually read the thread.................

Originally Posted by James May

Lol. So tell me fic, since you say that you know Manti better, what would wolf Manti do? I am curious to know since this claim made me giggle a bit.

Originally Posted by FictionJunction

if I told you that Manticore still cares about TWG would you believe it?

Maybe. The thing about Manticore is that he cares about TWG but he is very selective about what games he cares enough about to participate in. This is a little problematic because it allows him to play behind a veil of authoritative apathy as a red. It's difficult to reveal Manti's tell because you have to strike at the heart of what Manti cares about: being right, calling people out and winning. That last bit is the most important, obviously, because it supersedes the former two. Manti is willing to be wrong and is willing to forgo calling people out in exchange for a win. The only circumstance that would choose to do this is him being red.

So, we must look back and ask is Manti posting less because he normally 'joins' games on d2 d3? Is he posting less because he wants to get a clear read on people? Is he only posting to complain about people raising stupid questions because he's annoyed? Is he purposefully filtering himself? Weren't there particular moments in the thread that I would have expected Manti to say something constructive?

Because, let's face it, Manti is busy playing Ninja Gaiden but Manti also gets turned on by the possibility of leading people out of a mess. I think that opportunity presented itself a number of times.

[FictionJunction]

when your meta strategy involved NOT BEING ACTIVE you have to weigh blatant inactivity or apathy against moments YOU KNOW FOR A FACT would have under NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES resulted in a response you didn't get from the player in question.

ARE YOU GUYS DENSE?

[DarkManticoreX2]

I find it amusing you know what video game I'm currently playing.

[FictionJunction]

it's not always about what's in the thread, it's very often about what should have been.

[FictionJunction]

like seriously, you guys are talking about what's there and I'm talking about what's NOT there and you think we're having the same fucking conversation.

Come back when you're not fucking drunk

[DarkManticoreX2]

Originally Posted by FictionJunction

when your meta strategy involved NOT BEING ACTIVE you have to weigh blatant inactivity or apathy against moments YOU KNOW FOR A FACT would have under NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES resulted in a response you didn't get from the player in question.

You're going to have to accept I missed phase end because I was doing other things. If I was here I would have been involved. I was not.

Your read hinges on me being in the thread and active. I got home from work at 4 on Sunday and read through the entire thread while watching the broncos-eagles game. I made a few posts in here, but eventually got bored, watched the end of the game, and did other things. When I came back the day phase was over.

I can't make plays when I'm not around.

[Charu]

Alright, I'll play along. You're saying it's abnormal that dark is not responding or acting accordingly with his "meta" to some posts?

Is my dumb drunkin' mind understanding this right?

[FictionJunction]

Originally Posted by DarkManticoreX2

You're going to have to accept I missed phase end because I was doing other things. If I was here I would have been involved. I was not.

Your read hinges on me being in the thread and active. I got home from work at 4 on Sunday and read through the entire thread while watching the broncos-eagles game. I made a few posts in here, but eventually got bored, watched the end of the game, and did other things. When I came back the day phase was over.

I can't make plays when I'm not around.

I mean I don't have a GPS collar on you so I guess I'll have to take your word for it

[Svaz]

Originally Posted by Vendetta21

As a baseline a question I tend to ask myself about each player is "why are they playing this game? What motivates them to play TWG?" This is perhaps the first and most valuable question one must ask about a player.

Some people like a puzzle they can never be sure if they are solving or not. Some people like to obsess over the details to find some logical or behavioral aberration. Some people like to display how smart they are. None of these seem to fit you. Do you get why that concerns me?

Springboarding from this point, kinda wish we could have a meta-thread about play motivations, but I guess that would sort of ruin future games overall. I'm really fond of that concept all the same. Nonetheless...

I am inclined to mostly agree with dAnce, and a lot of this inclination is drawn from playing games with V in person. For one, he's being terribly placid here -- I know from experience that he has a tendency to be merciless, slightly petty, and definitely invested in ALL of the glory (more like all of the gloating). For as verbose as he can be, he's being reserved, even terse here. I can also agree with the display of some kind of text-based cognitive dissonance mentioned.

While it doesn't seem out of character for him to go after someone consistently, the fact that it's someone relatively new that hasn't done anything (imo) suspicious at this point seems a bit harsh. I get it, he's defending someone that a lot of people voted for, but for someone that hasn't experienced or encountered any of the many games and personalities of games past, it's honestly not a strange perception to have. I don't think it's nearly as wolfy as V is trying to present it being.

My instinct is to hold out for a retort... but I feel the most prudent thing is to go ahead and vote for V.

(I'd personally still like to hear a bit more from both of the replacements, but I can empathise with having to dredge through all of the white noise to make it to the current page, so it doesn't seem a particularly pressing issue right now.)