TWG CLXV - The Wine In Front Of Me - Game Thread

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by thesunfan

I would like to kind of apologize for making the thread about Freezin v me yesterday
I won't get super into detail about it, but both roundbox and freezin are right about specific things

roundbox is right that we fought a lot about small things to the point of pettiness and that's not good.

freezin is right that tunneling is p terrible for town when its t/t and I was so in the tunnel yesterday that I called him wolfy for giving me a tom brady avatar and for posting something predrafted

I, as usual, will reset my reads from d0. I will attempt to not let my previous read on Freezin dictate this phase too much. I must admit that a full reset is pretty hard and that I do still think his (re)vote of me is full of holes but

he posted a shitton more than I've ever seen him do as a wolf, and honestly, I should give him some benefit for doing so

I'm not sure what to think otherwise (yet)
I feel like I cleared someone too easily yesterday, like I get the feeling that someone is being overlooked by myself right now

since I am on spring break I'll spend a lot of tomorrow working on rereading the thread and making hopefully a much better reads list this time around because I will admit that my last one was subpar

I agree that discussions about the last PR and what it likely is etc etc should stop immediately

the last PR will do whatever they think is best

Haku, I understand that a lot of my previous phase was spent being defensive, and the reason for this is because I was the top wagon for I think over half the phase. The reason that I was defensive is not because new players were calling me out or something like that, its because I (felt like) I had to do what I did. I agree that a lot of time was spent chastising my own wagon rather than trying to convince people not to vote me, but I do think that

a) Freezin and I were past the point of no return for d0
b) Tokzic was inactive and I wasn't going to be able to convince him
c) lito is a robot and he has the mentality of Lynch All Liars, and I was being tunneled for what I would call a white lie even though I guess its not really one
d) You (I thought) voted me for pressure and nothing else

I did provide my thoughts on the game
I have been trying to solve the game as much as I ever do on d0 (don't need to hit a home run on d0 just need to find a wolf)

I think pairing myself and litodude is kind of ridiculous because of how hard he tunneled on me, and I think he honestly would've gotten less flack if he was a wolf for voting someone other than me for as long as he did given that it was apparent that people thought his reason for voting me was not a great one

I will be attempting to solve this game today and if you are town I hope that you see that

lastly, choof has had a good re-entrance imo (thumb)

Sunfan re entrance slightly towny. I dont think he'd tunnel here as either alignment, after last game, so the bits about Freezin posting so much and sunfan's reset attempt don't get as many town points as they would elsewhere.
I did like him bringing up choof, because he seemed focused on that at the end of last phase.

Sunfan, can you clarify a) and c) for me?
Why was it the point of no return? You said that several times yesterday, but oftentimes exploring other reads and pulling out of a thunderdome is smarter than staying in it (as evidenced by last game, I'd say).
Also what was the little white lie?

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by mellonxcollie

Personally I would like to hear more from Roundbox.

Yesssssss this is exactly what I needed to see
Lol
You were hovering at the scumlean line but gud shit gud shit keepitup

[FreezinIce]

Downgrading sunfan back to null.

After reset he looks decent but so much of his slot in my mind is predicated on his tunneling of me d0 that discarding it entirely seems foolish. I'll think about it and post more thoughts when im not on a phone

[ShadoWolfe]

I guess in moving forward, solving this becomes about solving Haku for me. I'm normally inclined to let him do that himself over time, but he's managed to intertwine himself with the core of the game. In pushing him on his delusions if he's, who's doing it with wolfy manipulative intentions? I'd say Charu as I'm seeing traces of a specific approach he takes to spinning a situation with little comments here and there. This possibility is disconcerting though, because I've been mindmelding Charu otherwise.
If Haku's a wolf, I'd clear YoshL in a heartbeat and have serious concerns about Raeko, who I already have smaller concerns about due to soft defenses of Freezin and Haku, as well as what may be pocketing attempts combined with classic excuse/read/quickthought/disappear in an effort to stay UTR, and a harder defense of Haku. I'd like to see more of her thoughts regardless, and I say "smaller concerns" because I'm distinctly aware, after last game, of the possibility that I might just be tinfoiling on her.

[ShadoWolfe]

Raeko does raise an interesting in bringing up Roundbox, who has been entirely absent this phase, despite a solid EoD imo. I haven't played a wolfgame with roundbox since BOATS, I believe, but I'm getting distinctly townvibes from him. If anyone who's familiar with his wolf game would like to share their read on him and what to look out for, that would be cool.

Also absent is inD, who I'm on to make a solid effort in solving this phase. He was my top lynch towards EoD, but he got me off him by playing in a nonplussed, questioning, seemingly open minded manner. If he doesn't follow that up with solid play today, I'll have no problems lynching him. I'd especially love to see his thoughts on the players pushing Haku (YoshL, Charu), and on Raeko, Lito, and Freezin.

[ShadoWolfe]

inD, who I'm counting* on to

[choof]

ejor

[ShadoWolfe]

roje

[choof]

Originally Posted by thesunfan

haku, when you're a wolf, do you pick a person and try to lynch them, or do you play it more by ear

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

When I'm a wolf, I vote my wolf partner because I know no one will follow my wagon.

w/w

[choof]

start of day actually didn't have too much content aside from yoshl and haku starting to do the thing again. I thought it was really weird that yoshl kept mentioning jailkeeper even though it's almost certain we don't have a jk.

it would be asinine to believe that we have a 2-shot vigi, there's practically no way any competent wolf would give town this role.

so it's almost certainly the IC children. I don't think this is up for debate at all

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

That's a really weird assumption. OP doesn't have information about declaring that the game will contain IC. It's only saying that it's a possible choice.

From the link in OP:

At any time during the game, you may PM the moderator and he or she will announce you as an Innocent Child in their next post, confirming you as town.
.

such a weird and old point of contention

[choof]

indheart

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Also absent is inD, who I'm on to make a solid effort in solving this phase. He was my top lynch towards EoD, but he got me off him by playing in a nonplussed, questioning, seemingly open minded manner. If he doesn't follow that up with solid play today, I'll have no problems lynching him. I'd especially love to see his thoughts on the players pushing Haku (YoshL, Charu), and on Raeko, Lito, and Freezin.

indheart is playing stereotypical utr wolf, would not be opposed to seeing him die today

[FreezinIce]

For me clearing haku is as simple as judging wolf haku would never post this much analysis so freely. Call it a hard tone read. Wolf haku would also implode under pressure and not react to it positively

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by choof

start of day actually didn't have too much content aside from yoshl and haku starting to do the thing again. I thought it was really weird that yoshl kept mentioning jailkeeper even though it's almost certain we don't have a jk.

it would be asinine to believe that we have a 2-shot vigi, there's practically no way any competent wolf would give town this role.

so it's almost certainly the IC children. I don't think this is up for debate at all



such a weird and old point of contention

Vigi can be, and often is, negative utility due to town death upon missing a shot.

It's certain we don't have a JK because of lightknight's flip. YoshL "kept mentioning jailkeeper" because it'd be impossible for Haku to know there's no JK + lightknight town PR (as opposed to fakeclaim scum) unless Haku's wolf, and yet he wrote his towerpost with the concrete assumption that lightknight was a dead cop.

So Haku either made two large leaps of logic as town and was confident enough about it to write all that "to troll Lito", and then was proven right by the flip, OR Haku is simply a wolf.

I'm leaning towards the second.

[thesunfan]

@Hakulyte
1) Because you had a bunch of votes already
2) Because you had a bunch of votes already and thus had enough pressure and it already felt like you had imploded a bit to me (your reset made you look a bit better at the time)
3) Yes that is a factually correct statement
4) Because someone else explained
5) Saying others aren't playing within my expectations /is/ solving the game so I don't really get what you're saying here.
6) "literally smh irl" just feels like a 15 year old girl texting, that's why it was funny to me. I didn't realize this until after I had posted it.

if there was another one and I missed it lmk

[thesunfan]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Sunfan re entrance slightly towny. I dont think he'd tunnel here as either alignment, after last game, so the bits about Freezin posting so much and sunfan's reset attempt don't get as many town points as they would elsewhere.
I did like him bringing up choof, because he seemed focused on that at the end of last phase.

Sunfan, can you clarify a) and c) for me?
Why was it the point of no return? You said that several times yesterday, but oftentimes exploring other reads and pulling out of a thunderdome is smarter than staying in it (as evidenced by last game, I'd say).
Also what was the little white lie?

it was the point of no return because we had already spent about 10 pages talking about how sure we were that one another was a wolf, and while I do think it was not the greatest thing now, I do think that lynching within those two players is usually the right thing to do on d0. We were not going to stop trying to kill one another unless we had no other options but to kill someone else, and I think we both knew that when we were interacting the night when I exploded.

Litodude doesn't play off of reads except when he does

he kept his vote on me all through yesterday like a donkey because in my first post I said I wasn't going to post all that much that night and, in his opinion, I ended up posting a lot, and that was a lie, and townies should never lie, which is the old school philosophy of "Lynch all Liars."

Basically, the fact that I got into the game and was having fun despite saying I wasn't going to post all that much is wolfy because it was a "lie"

I'd call it a white lie but I'm not exactly sure what to call it. I probably should've known that I was going to get into the game but I really did go into the thread to try not to post that much that night.

[choof]

dunno, I'm sure crazier things have happened than a 2-shot hitting at least one wolf
so haku wrote up the post "knowing" that lightknight was going to die after he claimed cop? okay I see what you're getting at now, he would have to know the roles exactly

I don't see town haku making posts like that as town but while haku had a rocky d1 start, he kinda redeemed himself. not to mention the implosion, which freezin has mentioned so often and I have freezin as a strong town read right now.

are you familiar with haku's implosions? @freezin he hasn't done it yet? does town haku make gambits like the one he's made?

[thesunfan]

why haven't we stopped talking about the PRs yet?
we need to do that
it literally doesn't matter what the last PR is because they will out if they ever have anything useful or if they're getting pushed on
game theory stuff about what you think the last PR is is only going to help the wolves find the last PR since they already know which role it is
so
STOP

[contrapatior]

maddo

[contrapatior]

WHOOPS LMAO
I'm choof on my tgb account brb

[choof]

who's this sperglord trying to be me