Ingame Song Information

[cedolad]

It's not that hard. It's not just patterns, think of the bpm, Keep In Mind's bpm isn't fast. And the patterns don't make it a FMO. Just because of the rolls, and bursts in the 16th stream doesn't make it a FMO.

[0]

yeah, Keep in Mind seems a lot harder than some of the FMOs

[cedolad]

it's not hard at all. The only spot where I would consider it a FMO is the last 200 notes. That's it. The beginning is a low VC, and the end is a low FMO, average that together that makes a High VC.

[Archelos]

Uhhh, you do realize that there are 24th trills in this song? And really ****ty 32nd gracenotes? I'm talking the kind that made me want to boo out like I always do, lol. I finished the song just for argument's sake, but yeah, this isn't a VC. I do consistently well on my sightreads, like SDG. None Would Escape, Lawn Wake IV, Silence, all SDG sightreads. I got 11 good and a boo on this stupid **** so there's no way this is a VC, lmao.

24th is 1.5x the speed and we're talking trills. Plus the jumptrills mid-stream aren't exactly easy to hit and then the 32nds really throw PA off. It's FMO.

EDIT:



VC?

[mhss1992]

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Thanks, Archelos.

[Agent:Baby Jesus]

just played keep in mind

theres a huge difficulty gap between the beginning/ending and the soloish part

probably one of the harder VC's in the game probably a low fmo

[cedolad]

I SDG'd it...

[mhss1992]

Originally Posted by cedolad

I SDG'd it...

Me too, but I still think it's FMO.

[Agent:Baby Jesus]

your ability to score good on a song should not affect the difficulty you think it is

[cedolad]

I have an idea. Make Keep in Mind a FMO, make NWE a VC, and give Keep in Mind the oni token

[mhss1992]

Makes sense. Or just raise Keep in Mind to FMO and keep NWE as a borderline FMO.

[cedolad]

Oh well. I'm tired of arguing, make it a FMO.

[ZC_Wolfy]

keep in mind is definitely a VC, but a high one. there's no real awkward patterns, and the bursts/one 24th semi-jumptrill aren't that hard

Originally Posted by Archelos

VC?

ya, that pattern's alot easier than it looks...

[Archelos]

Originally Posted by ZC_Wolfy

there's no real awkward patterns

What the **** are you talking about, the entire drum solo is some of the worst bull**** I have ever seen. And I've been playing for 5 years. So not only is the guy who stepped this a ****ing moron, but you have no idea what you're talking about.

Also, I can't hit that pattern. Like, I literally miss. And I SDG FMOs.

[Patashu]

take that behanjc >:)

[Niala]

A) The chart really isn't bad. Sure, it's awkward, but it's fun to play anyway.

B) That? An FMO? Lol, sure, you go ahead and believe that everybody, but it's not. Just because somebody can't do a single VC that they release as well as a couple of FMO's doesn't mean you should cry about it. Everybody has strengths and weaknesses in this game. Just because you SDG an FMO sight read and get like 15 goods on a VC doesn't mean that the VC should automatically become an FMO. T_T...

EDIT: C) I just want to say I think First Try should be a 7. It was really annoying to PA... Took me quite a few tries to get the AAA, although, I'm not really that good, so that argument isn't especially valid. xD

[TheSeventhDawn]

Originally Posted by Archelos

Okay, I just played First Try and Elements. You're assuming that everyone can combo stream as easily as you can. People who have trouble with stream will find Elements harder than First Try, I guarantee you. Plus, maybe you're forgetting that Elements has 8th note jumpstream. Yeah, that's not really so simple for somebody playing at that level. First Try, however, is pretty much all 8th jacks, with some 24ths, and an occasional 16th wedged in between two jumps.

My bad, I forgot to consider the stream in Elements. But still, First Try should be harder than Pondering Stuff, Don't Breath a Word and Pavlov's Dog and those are low-7s, so why shouldn't First Try be a 7 itself?

Did I miss something? We're now bumping levels up for being... slow? Also, what's "slow" to a newbie? Maybe an experienced player will go back on these and think "wtf these are slow hard to PA omg" but for somebody not so experienced, maybe the First Try jacks are a comfortable speed.

Okay, I only mentioned ''slow'' for precision. But I guess I'll take that back, sorry about that. My point is, First Try's level should be bumped to a 7 for the following reasons: the quick staircases and rolls filled with 12th and 24th notes(and those rolls are faster than the ones in Zodiac and Agenda X) making the PA more difficult(and for some, hard to FC), since you have press a quick roll or staircase while constantly pressing the jacks non-stop, which isn't a cake walk to do, because you have to do it quickly between two jacks note, and resume your ''jacks pressing'' right after.

Another thing that I should mention is, the occational jumps in that song during the constant 4th note and 8th note jacks makes its PA harder. It's not easy to constantly keep your PA and resume your PA after passing the jumps. You can easily see get a few goods right after the jumps. Also, the 16th notes between the jumps aren't making it any easier(they aren't noticeably hard, but they do a slight difficulty in this song). Those are the reasons why I think this song should be a 7. Other 6s don't have so many tricky patterns in one single song(okay, Lion's Dance makes an exception, and I seriously don't know why that song is rated a 6 neither, it should be a 7 as well, but meh). Okay, First Try is short, but the song is swarmed with patterns giving you a hard time, compared to other 6s and even a few 7s.

EDIT: You're playing with one hand, which can also change the way you look at thing.

It does change my point of view on a lot of song's rating, very true, but not all of them. A spread player and a one hander would share a similiar opinion if the difficulty rating is way off for a song. For exemple, me and a few of spread players agreed that Dragon's Final Roar should be a 7, and not a 6. I'm a one hander and they are spread players, but we shared the same opinion because its difficulty rating is way off.

Also, when Leeroy Jerkins was still a 5 during Christmas, me and my spread friends agreed that song shouldn't be a 5, and should be a 7. However, if you're asking me if Parachute should be harder than Blank Knowing, or if Noir Remixed is harder than Water Like Pudding, I wouldn't be able to answer you, or if I were, I would keep it for myself, because their difficulty are similiar to me, and as a one hander, my opinion on them wouldn't be accurate.

Being a one hander doesn't always make your point of view invalid, or if you prefer; totally different from spread players. Of course, having different point of view is inevitable, but that doesn't restict one hander from sharing a similiar point of view of the difficulty rating, if the rating is ''just not right''(either too hard for its rating or too easy), right? Whenever I want to change the difficulty of a song, I usually judge it by using overall criterias such as the easyness to read and to PA. Those criterias shouldn't change much from a one hander to a spread player.

Replies in bold.

[qqwref]

I have 13-1-0-0 on KiM... and I think that's pretty good for me... and I've SDGed a few FMOs. If KiM isn't FMO, it's an extremely high-end tricky VC.

[cedolad]

I say we flip a coin, heads it's a VC, tails it's a FMO. flip nao.

[bmah]

There's definitely a better and more efficient way of giving songs their proper difficulties instead of having people shout out their personal experiences with song XXX left and right.

I think someone should make a list we can all agree upon on the fundamental aspects that comprises a simfile's difficulty. Some examples include "speed", "song length", "arrow density", and "awkwardness". Some of these aspects should be further broken down into more specifics to decrease the amount of subjectivity we all have when trying to decide a song's difficulty. For example, "awkwardness" is not at all descriptive; the term can be broken down further to describe the amount of "jacks", "jumpstreams", and whatnot that makes a song awkward to play.

In essence, I'm suggesting a more descript version of something like DDR's voltage, chaos, stream, etc. A more objective way of determining difficulty, although subjectivity will always be present at one level or another. IMO it's better than having people just shout out what they think is the best difficulty for song XXX. It's hard to get a good consensus if we keep getting multiple opinions that often oppose each other. We're hardly being progressive this way.