Queue/Batch Discussion Thread

[Plan_Bsk81127]

Dang, acceptance rate is pretty strict. Files basically have to be a perfect file or one close to perfect or its just rejected. =\

[Dark_Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by qqwref

Or maybe I'm just annoyed that Famicom Selecta isn't even getting conditional queue'd... haha

Thanks for liking them =D

And, if I read correctly, both files were technically in conditional queue until we either collab the files together or I fix mine up more.

[bmah]

Well Plan, it also raises the question of two things:

- the overall appropriateness of a judge's leniency
- HOW MANY FILES ARE TOO MANY ON FFR?!

[TC_Halogen]

Just a thought here:

Famicom Selecta (Dark_Chrysalis) - (16) (</4/4/5) [Close]

[<] The file was worth at least a [+.] rating, but there is already a better file for this song in the queue or in the batch, and the file is not suitable as a V2.

Wouldn't the < be worth 4 points (i.e. Famicom = 17 points)? Looking at all of the other judges, they all seemed to be in agreement with the fact that both files were fairly identical.

With so many judges, the [<] rating needs to be abolished.

P.S. Famicom is a good file and should go in game kthxbai

[DossarLX ODI]

Originally Posted by bmah

- HOW MANY FILES ARE TOO MANY ON FFR?!

When you start to get too many 9's and 10's and you leave the other guys bored. In other words - even if it's a legit file that has potential, if it's hard it's going to get rejected.

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by bmah

Well Plan, it also raises the question of two things:

- the overall appropriateness of a judge's leniency
- HOW MANY FILES ARE TOO MANY ON FFR?!

NO SUCH THING AS TOO MANY FILES!!!!! lol

Altho really I think that maybe a bit of the strictness should go down and the frequency of the batches themselves should be less.

[Plan_Bsk81127]

Originally Posted by bmah

Well Plan, it also raises the question of two things:

- the overall appropriateness of a judge's leniency
- HOW MANY FILES ARE TOO MANY ON FFR?!

FFR has a limit to how many files can be in the game? Never knew....

[bmah]

Well I don't know about that, but what I do know is that the attention span of a file decreases when you've amassed all of these files and one gets lost over another. And then we begin to wonder what's so special about these files when so many are accepted en masse.

It's either that or we've yet to happily accept the possibility that great files are being made on a more regular basis (and people on sites like kbo would say that ffr files are a tier lower than whatever they play, so it sounds like there is room for more effort).

[Izzy]

Originally Posted by Plan_Bsk81127

Dang, acceptance rate is pretty strict. Files basically have to be a perfect file or one close to perfect or its just rejected. =\

yea except they have to be perfect to "them". It's pretty much entirely subjective after the point of the file being synced and not having notes go to nothing etc..

I like files being different then them so oh well I guess.

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by Izzy

yea except they have to be perfect to "them". It's pretty much entirely subjective after the point of the file being synced and not having notes go to nothing etc..

I like files being different then them so oh well I guess.

I was going to say pretty much the same thing. What actually defines "perfect" for a file? With such a vast difference in opinion on subjective things you can't even really call something a "perfect" file.

[TC_Halogen]

The lack of an understanding toward subjectivity and objectivity is completely killing ratings. It's alright to have a small bit of objectivity (edit: meant subjectivity rather than objectivity, oops) or give notes as to how you feel something could be better, but taking out a ton of points for an interpretative disagreement is downright wrong. If at any point in time, you look at an error and say in your mind, "I can see why this person did this", even for a split second - then you're realizing their interpretation of the song.

The only time you will ever see a perfect chart for a song is if someone steps a song that has a 4-note melody with less than 4 instruments playing at the same time. Instrumental melodies, scales, etc. will never be accented properly because there's just not enough room to measure it. It's that simple. Being able to separate subjective errors and objective ones makes you a good judge, and knowing how to take disagreements and point them out makes you a better one.

[MarioNintendo]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

The lack of an understanding toward subjectivity and objectivity is completely killing ratings. It's alright to have a small bit of objectivity or give notes as to how you feel something could be better, but taking out a ton of points for an interpretative disagreement is downright wrong. If at any point in time, you look at an error and say in your mind, "I can see why this person did this", even for a split second - then you're realizing their interpretation of the song.

The only time you will ever see a perfect chart for a song is if someone steps a song that has a 4-note melody with less than 4 instruments playing at the same time. Instrumental melodies, scales, etc. will never be accented properly because there's just not enough room to measure it. It's that simple. Being able to separate subjective errors and objective ones makes you a good judge, and knowing how to take disagreements and point them out makes you a better one.

... Amen.

[AsphyxZero]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

The lack of an understanding toward subjectivity and objectivity is completely killing ratings. It's alright to have a small bit of objectivity (edit: meant subjectivity rather than objectivity, oops) or give notes as to how you feel something could be better, but taking out a ton of points for an interpretative disagreement is downright wrong. If at any point in time, you look at an error and say in your mind, "I can see why this person did this", even for a split second - then you're realizing their interpretation of the song.

Errors don't constitute different interpretations, errors are errors.

And if this was anyone else, would you be posting the same thing?

[t-rogdor]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

The lack of an understanding toward subjectivity and objectivity is completely killing ratings. It's alright to have a small bit of objectivity (edit: meant subjectivity rather than objectivity, oops) or give notes as to how you feel something could be better, but taking out a ton of points for an interpretative disagreement is downright wrong. If at any point in time, you look at an error and say in your mind, "I can see why this person did this", even for a split second - then you're realizing their interpretation of the song.

The only time you will ever see a perfect chart for a song is if someone steps a song that has a 4-note melody with less than 4 instruments playing at the same time. Instrumental melodies, scales, etc. will never be accented properly because there's just not enough room to measure it. It's that simple. Being able to separate subjective errors and objective ones makes you a good judge, and knowing how to take disagreements and point them out makes you a better one.

You're saying this while defending a file, simply because your ****ing wife made it. I hope the irony is not lost on you.

If it is, then stop judging. Right now.

[i love you]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/showpost.php?p=3372931&postcount=17065

This is true however, most of us, including you, were being subjective in this batch in one form or another and used that as apart of your judging. I doubt this will ever change.

And if this was anyone else, would you be posting the same thing?

Doubt it.

[qqwref]

Originally Posted by bmah

- HOW MANY FILES ARE TOO MANY ON FFR?!

Personally, I don't believe there are too many files, if the files are each good enough that some people will really enjoy playing them. Maybe not everyone will agree that the files are good, but we could use some more diversity - some technical files, some bursty ****, some 13s, some straight up 160-200bpm js stuff, some very fast stream files. I'm sure you're all bored with some of these from playing SM for 5 years, but if there are only a few in FFR, we could probably use a few more.

And hey, if we keep up judging, we WILL get to 1500 playable files eventually. It could take 6 months or 3 years, but we will get there, so the question is just whether we're willing to let some of those extra 600~ be a little more controversial. Seeing as some files make it ingame and are immediately hated by half of the people, or else AAA'd and forgotten about, it can't be THAT bad to accept some files which don't get a ton of points...

[psychoangel691]

He's argued subjectivity tons of times but now you guys have this huge problem because he used my file as an example. It was a huge thing we argued when the batch was coming back around again.

Byron when you went through my file on aim with me I pointed out that you were going off subjective stuff and you even agreed after I pointed it out. I still have the conversation.

I didn't expect my file to get past you guys anyway and I don't plan on making those changes and resubmitting because they feel awkward and wrong. Plus if I did every change that every judge made it wouldn't be my file anymore I may as well just put all of your names on it.

This file made a good example because of the huge differences in judging. I don't think any two judges mentioned the same thing in it. Let alone that it got a rejected mark from one judge based on one thing mentioned in the chart, which I don't see how one thing in a chart should be enough to reject it but hey that's his decision to make.

All I know is you guys need to get off this it's just cause it's hers crap because it was used to point a valid subject out.

[bmah]

Originally Posted by bmah

Wow, The Final Hour is the most hotly contested file ever. lol

Going back to what I said here, I see that this file is the forefront of getting down straight to the issue that plagues judging...subjectivity. This has little to do with the file itself. Ok guys, why can't we just take debatable files on a one-on-one basis.

Ok, how many of you would actually debate your files to be rejudged VERSUS letting go of a rejected one?

If there are just a few people, then a case-by-case discussion for problematic files should be manageable.

[AsphyxZero]

Originally Posted by psychoangel691

I didn't expect my file to get past you guys anyway

Then why did you send it?

[Dark_Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

Just a thought here:


[<] The file was worth at least a [+.] rating, but there is already a better file for this song in the queue or in the batch, and the file is not suitable as a V2.

Wouldn't the < be worth 4 points (i.e. Famicom = 17 points)?

He did use the < symbol, but I think he still gave me a 3 rating on it... which is fine, but it brings up the issue that if I have 2 files with 5/4/4/3 in conditional queue, why wouldn't THIS 5/4/4/3 be in the same boat? Simply because our files were really similar and it would be unfair to the other person? Seems a little awkward...