Goodbye Framers!

[DarkManticoreX2]

New topic:

Originally Posted by Sprite-

btw, all scores gotten by subscribers since the beta was released will be deleted.

Crap. So yeah. As I think Hammy said.

"Hold off on those Good scores"

[foilman8805]

A small victory for those who voted No.

[QuadDamage]

Avmisses are glitches that should have been removed long ago. For a game that's so combo-heavy, it makes no sense to have something that penalizes you for accuracy

[meno_rocks123]

one acronym.
FOTS

[Xception704]

Originally Posted by QuadDamage

Avmisses are glitches that should have been removed long ago. For a game that's so combo-heavy, it makes no sense to have something that penalizes you for accuracy

That's so right it's not even funny.

If FFR had a scoring system like SM that was mostly independent of Combo, avmisses would not be such a big deal, but seeing that it IS, it would be an unwise decision to keep them in the game when you have a chance of fixing them imo.

[Xx{Midnight}xX]

I like the idea of harder files and no more Avrage misses (Though i don't think i've ever had the mispleasure of trying to hit one.) But i personaly think that because it makes the game easier that they shouldn't do it.

[Xiaounlimited]

Originally Posted by meno_rocks123

one acronym.
FOTS

Kill yourself, no.

I have some decent scores on Caprice, FOTBB and Piano Etude - I whored for them. I got my sense of accomplishment. I'll be kind of sad that they'll be gone. But really, I don't care, it won't matter, I'll just get a better score. I've spent just as much time as anybody else with avmisses, and to be frank, I'm glad to see them go despite my time spent whoring songs for good scores.

Preserving them as history is fine with me, so people who join FFR later on will know of avmisses and not to take the lack of them for granted. However, putting off the fix 'til 3rd style (which has been in production for god knows how long now), or having a seperate DB to save the avmiss scores is completely pointless. Sentimental values are not of interest to anybody but whom they belong to.

The ONLY arguments going for avmisses are "it's a historical era in FFR's timeline" and "it's what makes FFR, FFR".

Removing them yields tenfold more benefits. Seriously, I don't get the point of keeping them. Files with jacks will be introduced, but those with excessive jacks will be denied.

I'm 100% with Yukari, Thunderstrike, Ryusei and the rest of the pro-framer removal.

Anyways, I've said my two cents. I'm done here, the rest of the thread is going to go nowhere. I'm just going to sit back and wait 'til framers are gone, then masturbate when I can finally AAA FMO songs without avmisses.

[edit]
By preserve, I mean have an alternate client with avmisses

[hi19hi19]

Avmisses suck

but so does a million noobs who suddenly get better at the game and think that they're god now because it's easy to FC Crytalis all of a sudden

so idunno

[Xiaounlimited]

But then you get to put crap like gtell into the game to get them to stfu

[-Yukari-]

Originally Posted by Xiaounlimited

Sentimental values are not of interest to anybody but whom they belong to.

I actually like this quote even out of the context of this thread, well-said :)

[Silver_Brian]

Certain skill tokens will also be really easy to get. Particularly otaku heavy, oni and the five. (the only ones I really had trouble with) That's probably the only thing that I'll be mad over.

[RoastedNoob]

I don't see how it makes getting Heavy and Oni any easier, no avmisses makes FC'ing easier... and AAA'ing a little easier, but not AAA'ing the songs that are required to play to get Heavy and Oni. Removing avmisses isn't going to cause AAA's out of no where from everyone. Just FC's, and not even that many. o.O Maybe I just don't understand, but I don't get how everyone thinks this makes AAA'ing easy.... You still have to play on beat like you ever would've.

I don't know the song you have to play for The Five. So, I can't say anything about that.

I think Crowdpleaser is going to be like a high VC now. =\

[Xiaounlimited]

Originally Posted by RoastedNoob

I don't know the song you have to play for The Five. So, I can't say anything about that.

Kyuin is the equivalent of ear rape. It's best you don't know the song.

[foilman8805]

I agree with you RoastedNoob - it doesn't lower the standard of difficulty too much at all. Yeah, ranks will be more competitive, but you'll still have to be really good to AAA, and still very skilled to FC FMO's and FGO's. I think Crowdpleaser will be an FMO...VC is too much of a stretch for that song because of the insane trilling.

I've gone back and forth in my mind about what I thought about the whole thing after reading some of the arguments presented, but the truth of the matter is that fixing avmisses will be better for the game in many more ways than it will be harmful.

[RoastedNoob]

The main reason I like avmiss so much, is that it adds a whole nother level of skill to be obtained to be considered good. I just like when games have something like that, like l-cancelling in Smash Brothers. I will be much happier FC'ing all those songs I couldn't before, because avmisses would all ways piss me off so much when I was doing good.. but as the "hurtle" I saw it as, I enjoyed its presence in the game, and was the best bug we could've asked for. With it gone, we will all move on to remember it, be happy it's gone, and play much better.

[QuadDamage]

Yes, avmisses are a historical part of FFR. It does not mean, however, that keeping them is necessarily a good thing. I mean, it's a GLITCH. It's not an "added feature." It's a glitch that has remained for so long that it has forced people to adapt to it and integrate it into their skill set for this game. However, we should not base the difficulty of FFR on how many GLITCHES a song has. It should be based on the complexity of the song, the step types, the pattern types, the song speed, the song length, etc -- basically everything else.

So what if framer-heavy songs are now much easier with the avmiss fix? That's the way it should be because rhythm games should naturally reward you for accuracy, especially in a musical game that is so heavily scored on COMBO, which this glitch directly interferes with on an additional level beyond mere visual or aural skill. Instead, this now allows us to add more complex stepcharts that further push the level of skill in the right dimension. The cap of difficulty shouldn't be derived from how many notes you have to hit intentionally early -- it's just silly.

I know a lot of people would be miffed that the avmiss fix would make a lot of their past efforts almost obsolete. However, a similar argument could be said for speedmods. The introduction of such mods revamped the scoreboards, albeit in a fundamentally different way than an avmiss fix would. The fact of the matter is, an improvement to the core of the game is an improvement nonetheless. If you have a good score that you got with avmisses, try it again and get something better. The playing field is even for all, and there aren't too many songs that are so incredibly framer-heavy that it would be overly tedious to tighten up old scores. So what if your top-10 rank is now shared by many more people? There will be many more harder songs released that will further push skill in the correct manner, and if you're really that good, you'll still be ahead of the game. Scores will also be more accurate -- more indicative of skill. Some players simply don't care to learn framers. With avmisses gone, we make the playing field more fair.

Removing this glitch is definitely a step in the right direction. We need to change the metric for skill over to a dimension that is more appropriate for a game of this type. Just because you've adapted to the glitch doesn't mean it should be left there forever. Glitches get fixed all the time -- this one just took a while to get to.

It would be like playing a first person shooter where your bullets don't hurt the target if you have that target directly in the crosshairs. For some reason you might have to lead the target and shoot the bullet and hope it collides with a moving target outside your crosshairs. Again, it just makes no sense. Even if you mastered the game for glitch compensation, it's still a glitch. This is a game that is about hitting notes to the beat of the music. Why penalize the player for doing this correctly just because certain notes might be closer together? It just doesn't make sense. This glitch needs to be fixed and I am very glad it's being done!

[Zageron]

For those of you who want to keep AV-MISS, just because you have amazing scores that you don't want others to beat easily, think it over. This is an Internet game... simply a game that you play to waste time, and/or compete. The difficulties will be fixed, and songs that were thought to be much to difficult to put on FFR will finally be uploaded!

Don't go against the flow for selfish reasons.

[heyitsmee]

80.00% in favor

[DivynE]

Why do you guys keep thinking your scores will get beaten? If they improve their scores, with this improvement, shouldn't you improve yours?

[Ryusei_]

Originally Posted by RoastedNoob

no avmisses makes FC'ing easier... and AAA'ing a little easier, but .

This is a comment that's starting to annoy me. Fixing the avemiss bug is hardly going to any effect AT ALL on anyone's PA in general except for the few aves/misses (go figure) you would get normally from an avemiss. It will not be fixed and all of the sudden anyone with a decent skill level can now AAA Molto. It will be almost no different than their old crappy 200 good score except now they will be able to achieve a higher combo.

Let me repeat myself for the slow ones.

Avemisses will have NO EFFECT on PA.