TWG LXXXVII: Cloverfield - Page 8

**DarkManticoreX2** · 09-9-2009, 10:39 PM

I'm seriously making a rule that states that I can't be wolved n1/n2 unless the wolves have a damn good reason. Either that or I permanently start every game with a shield.

This isn't funny =[

AC1speakerbox · 09-9-2009, 10:46 PM

It really isn't. Wolves should be ashamed of themselves.

What a dick move.

Afrobean · 09-10-2009, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roundbox

that was totally called for

It wasn't uncalled for, it was just plain stupid. Technically speaking, I did call for it.

But manti was on the short-list to getting lynched. There was a pretty good shot of him going down today, especially if lito turned out to be human. Very stupid kill choice.

So I think I have a new psychological profile in mind. The wolves are likely not very active, not vets, but have played at least a few games and recognize Manti as a power player (even though manti has failed to fill this role for some time as I understand it, as he normally is wolfed right away?). These folks are not sharpest tools in the shed. We have 4 wolves out there, not a one of them being all that intelligent or paying very much attention here.

A lot of these people I didn't even REALIZE WERE PLAYING (who is emerald000? Viccica? AC1speakerbox?). A lot of these people I don't know in the least. These are the people I think we should be looking at now.

And the fact that they chose manti over me also means that ruritsu just fell a notch on my list. Based on his overly defensive response to my light accusation, I'd estimate he's the type who if invited as I did would go for me for revenge (and also potentially to silence someone who'd rail against him all day). I also don't think the guy is capable of the level of play where he's realize I might draw this conclusion if manti were killed, so I find it incredibly unlikely he'd choose manti to throw me off.

ps sorry, manti, really. With the suspicion on you, I was sure that if they took up my invitation, they'd go for me. They were stupider than I though.

**emerald000** · 09-10-2009, 12:29 AM

Get on AIM sometimes and I'll be glad to talk to you Afro.

Admitted, Manti is a great player and all, but wolfing him when he is a suspect is pretty stupid. Personally, if I were a wolf, I would have attacked Afro to put pressure on ruritsu and maybe get him lynched. Also, that would put a vet down like wolfing manti did. But that didn't happen. That leads me to think that ruritsu might be a wolf and didn't wolf you in order not to bring even more attention to him.

So, I am going to vote for ruritsu, as it seems to me he is the suspect #1 for now.

On another note, I wonder if lito was a wolf. If he wasn't, and Manti is most likely not one, then maybe temote could be a wolf finally. We would need to have iggy's word on the psychic reading before going farther in that path though.

FictionJunction · 09-10-2009, 12:35 AM

would someone mind telling me why wolfing manti is in any way beneficial to the wolves?

Temote · 09-10-2009, 12:36 AM

I'm hating to be the differing opinion since I know I'm still under suspicion, but wolfing Manti was actually a very smart move. The thread completely implied that if he weren't lynched, Manti would be seered by Iggy. The wolves probably acted on this in an attempt to get Iggy to waste his seering for a turn.

I actually sent a PM to Iggy about this possibility back during day one, saying that it would be better to seer Lito first while still leading the thread to think he'd seer Manti (at the time, I thought we'd be keeping Lito and lynching me, since he's generally a more useful player than I). I was pretty sure that Manti was going to be the target if he weren't a wolf for Night 2.

(Didn't get a reply, though, so I'm not sure if he listened to me or not.)

Temote · 09-10-2009, 12:36 AM

ohi Fic

FictionJunction · 09-10-2009, 12:36 AM

yeah, I thought so.

FictionJunction · 09-10-2009, 12:41 AM

you do know you're running on the assumption that iggy won't receive his seering if he indeed seered manti, right?

I mean, I was wondering the same thing but I'm not sure how clarinet would deal with sort of situation. I've always thought the wolfing was the -last- thing that happened during a night phase.

Temote · 09-10-2009, 12:42 AM

Whether or not he receives the seering isn't the point. It's whether or not it's useful.

Doesn't matter if Manti came back human since he's dead.

FictionJunction · 09-10-2009, 12:44 AM

well, you were talking about 'wasting a seering'

as far as I'm concerned, a wasted seering is one we didn't get after sending the pm.

FictionJunction · 09-10-2009, 12:45 AM

if he's human then hey! we don't have to worry about him being a dead wolf who was killed by his own team for whatever reason! (yes, it's happened before)

Afrobean · 09-10-2009, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emerald000

Get on AIM sometimes and I'll be glad to talk to you Afro.

Admitted, Manti is a great player and all, but wolfing him when he is a suspect is pretty stupid. Personally, if I were a wolf, I would have attacked Afro to put pressure on ruritsu and maybe get him lynched. Also, that would put a vet down like wolfing manti did. But that didn't happen. That leads me to think that ruritsu might be a wolf and didn't wolf you in order not to bring even more attention to him.

So, I am going to vote for ruritsu, as it seems to me he is the suspect #1 for now.

On another note, I wonder if lito was a wolf. If he wasn't, and Manti is most likely not one, then maybe temote could be a wolf finally. We would need to have iggy's word on the psychic reading before going farther in that path though.

And the first wolf pops up its head.

Your immediate jump to ruritsu for the EXACT opposite reason as I said he was probably NOT a wolf, followed by "wondering whether lito was a wolf" (i bet you already know

), followed by saying "manti is most likely [not a wolf]" (no ****).

Have you ever played TWG before?

And by the by, I'm on aim 24/7. Sometimes I'm away or invisible, but I'm on aim 24/7. You'll have a hard time catching me in the evening (sleeping) or at night (at work most nights, like right now), but morning and early afternoon I'm hard to miss.

Quote:

Originally Posted by temote

The wolves probably acted on this in an attempt to get Iggy to waste his seering for a turn.

Except that seering isn't 100%, but wolfing him IS. That's exactly what I was saying in my post where I invited them to kill either me or manti. By killing us, we're martyred and our roles are revealed 100%. And what would manti contribute going forward? I don't know if you noticed but he was far from active during day 1. He made a handful of posts toward beginning of day, then did little else. Had he been left alive, he likely wouldn't have been all that active and would have likely been eventually lynched (even if iggy did seer him as human).

But as far as I'm concerned, him getting wolfed is better for the team than seer'd as human. It's unfortunate that he would be knocked out of the game early since that appears to be a problem he's had a lot, but his role being revealed as human is worth more than his "activity" or being a "power player" I think (no offense, manti, just saying knowledge of your role is that important).

Temote · 09-10-2009, 02:04 AM

The main goal is to create as large of a pool of green/blue humans as possible while also finding the reds.

Manti not being wolfed would mean that we have someone else dead instead (i.e. someone who, as you already said, would mostly be confirmed human) as well as Manti being confirmed human (if Iggy seered him as the thread suggested he did). (Or at least confirmed until there's about five or so players left.)

Meaning we'd have two people cleared as opposed to one. So I would assume they were thinking to lower the pool of confirmed humans.

Also, Manti is generally more active during Night phases (whereas I tend to be more active during Day phases. It balances the two of us out pretty well when we play together, honestly).

And Fic, while it's happened before, wolfing Manti if he were a wolf would have absolutely no benefits to the wolves at all, really. At least if he were a wolf, that would give them a free turn while we're busy lynching him as opposed to offing him right away. It's not like all the suspicion went away from him just because we lynched Lito.

**emerald000** · 09-10-2009, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Afrobean

Your immediate jump to ruritsu for the EXACT opposite reason as I said he was probably NOT a wolf

The base of your thesis is that ruritsu doesn't have the talent to realize that wolfing you would be a bad idea. It doesn't take a doctorate to see that. I am pretty sure almost every player could have deduced that.

But if you have anything else to offer, I am willing to listen. I wanted to light discussion and I succeeded at it.

Afrobean · 09-10-2009, 05:18 AM

Quote:

The base of your thesis is that ruritsu doesn't have the talent to realize that wolfing you would be a bad idea.

But that's just it. It WOULDN'T be a bad idea. Iggy even went as far as to bull****, saying I might be guarded (implying that he apparently thinks I'm human), and unless I'm mistaken, not a single person singled me out as suspicious for any reason. And for all the words thrown about of "activity" from manti, I've put forth more posts with more content than he has while he was alive. I honestly think the real reason they went for manti instead of me is that they don't know me, don't know my history, and didn't notice how active I have been or active I will be.

Or do you guys REGULARLY deal with wolves revenge attacking people who discover them as wolves? Had I been wolfed last night would anyone SERIOUSLY have tried to hold that against ruritsu? BUT that said, considering what I've seen of Ruritsu, he seems like EXACTLY the type who WOULD wolf a person who calls them out on their wolfy behavior, ESPECIALLY after there has been an open invitation to the wolves to attack said player.

And bro, you're not allowed to say "I only said this stupid thing to get people talking." Only humans are allowed to say that. Well, humans and bad wolves

Afrobean · 09-10-2009, 05:22 AM

Anyone who tries to point out the irony of me first saying not to use wolf kill choices as evidence against a person, then immediately turn around and claims that ruritsu is the sort of person who actually might do that missed the point.

Players shouldn't look at who was wolfed during the night and try to figure out which player would want to kill that person if he or she were a wolf. That's too sloppy to assume that a wolf would do that, even if some players as wolves might.

Afrobean · 09-10-2009, 05:23 AM

A little unclear on that last post. Disregard it. It should read more like this:

Anyone who tries to point out the irony of me first saying not to use wolf kill choices as evidence against a person, then immediately turn around and claims that ruritsu is the sort of person who actually might revenge kill like that missed the point.

Players shouldn't look at who was wolfed during the night and try to figure out which player would want to kill that person if he or she were a wolf. That's too sloppy to assume that a wolf would do that, even if some players as wolves might.

AC1speakerbox · 09-10-2009, 08:04 AM

Afro doesn't know me? :.(

In any case, I can definitely see Temote's point. It was still incredibly mean, though.
I've told Iggy this already, but Ruritsu has been known to lose his cool early in the game giving himself away as a wolf. At this point, he's probably our best bet, even if he wasn't the one behind the choice to take down Manti.

Also Temote, my heart is heavy for the loss of your drunk Leafeon.

AC1speakerbox · 09-10-2009, 08:08 AM

I do realize that post leaves me at Afro's mercy, but I think it's the right choice given Ruritsu's play history.

09-9-2009, 10:46 PM	#142
AC1speakerbox FFR Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Age: 32 Posts: 1,242	Re: TWG LXXXVII: Cloverfield It really isn't. Wolves should be ashamed of themselves. What a dick move.

09-10-2009, 12:29 AM	#144
emerald000 the Mathemagician~ Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Quebec City Age: 34 Posts: 1,320	Re: TWG LXXXVII: Cloverfield Get on AIM sometimes and I'll be glad to talk to you Afro. Admitted, Manti is a great player and all, but wolfing him when he is a suspect is pretty stupid. Personally, if I were a wolf, I would have attacked Afro to put pressure on ruritsu and maybe get him lynched. Also, that would put a vet down like wolfing manti did. But that didn't happen. That leads me to think that ruritsu might be a wolf and didn't wolf you in order not to bring even more attention to him. So, I am going to vote for ruritsu, as it seems to me he is the suspect #1 for now. On another note, I wonder if lito was a wolf. If he wasn't, and Manti is most likely not one, then maybe temote could be a wolf finally. We would need to have iggy's word on the psychic reading before going farther in that path though.

09-10-2009, 12:36 AM	#146
Temote FFR Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Age: 34 Posts: 748	Re: TWG LXXXVII: Cloverfield I'm hating to be the differing opinion since I know I'm still under suspicion, but wolfing Manti was actually a very smart move. The thread completely implied that if he weren't lynched, Manti would be seered by Iggy. The wolves probably acted on this in an attempt to get Iggy to waste his seering for a turn. I actually sent a PM to Iggy about this possibility back during day one, saying that it would be better to seer Lito first while still leading the thread to think he'd seer Manti (at the time, I thought we'd be keeping Lito and lynching me, since he's generally a more useful player than I). I was pretty sure that Manti was going to be the target if he weren't a wolf for Night 2. (Didn't get a reply, though, so I'm not sure if he listened to me or not.)

09-10-2009, 12:36 AM	#147
Temote FFR Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Age: 34 Posts: 748	Re: TWG LXXXVII: Cloverfield ohi Fic

09-10-2009, 12:42 AM	#150
Temote FFR Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Age: 34 Posts: 748	Re: TWG LXXXVII: Cloverfield Whether or not he receives the seering isn't the point. It's whether or not it's useful. Doesn't matter if Manti came back human since he's dead.

09-10-2009, 02:04 AM	#154
Temote FFR Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Age: 34 Posts: 748	Re: TWG LXXXVII: Cloverfield The main goal is to create as large of a pool of green/blue humans as possible while also finding the reds. Manti not being wolfed would mean that we have someone else dead instead (i.e. someone who, as you already said, would mostly be confirmed human) as well as Manti being confirmed human (if Iggy seered him as the thread suggested he did). (Or at least confirmed until there's about five or so players left.) Meaning we'd have two people cleared as opposed to one. So I would assume they were thinking to lower the pool of confirmed humans. Also, Manti is generally more active during Night phases (whereas I tend to be more active during Day phases. It balances the two of us out pretty well when we play together, honestly). And Fic, while it's happened before, wolfing Manti if he were a wolf would have absolutely no benefits to the wolves at all, really. At least if he were a wolf, that would give them a free turn while we're busy lynching him as opposed to offing him right away. It's not like all the suspicion went away from him just because we lynched Lito.

09-10-2009, 05:22 AM	#157
Afrobean Admiral in the Red Army Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the moon Age: 36 Posts: 13,262	Re: TWG LXXXVII: Cloverfield Anyone who tries to point out the irony of me first saying not to use wolf kill choices as evidence against a person, then immediately turn around and claims that ruritsu is the sort of person who actually might do that missed the point. Players shouldn't look at who was wolfed during the night and try to figure out which player would want to kill that person if he or she were a wolf. That's too sloppy to assume that a wolf would do that, even if some players as wolves might. __________________

09-10-2009, 05:23 AM	#158
Afrobean Admiral in the Red Army Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the moon Age: 36 Posts: 13,262	Re: TWG LXXXVII: Cloverfield A little unclear on that last post. Disregard it. It should read more like this: Anyone who tries to point out the irony of me first saying not to use wolf kill choices as evidence against a person, then immediately turn around and claims that ruritsu is the sort of person who actually might revenge kill like that missed the point. Players shouldn't look at who was wolfed during the night and try to figure out which player would want to kill that person if he or she were a wolf. That's too sloppy to assume that a wolf would do that, even if some players as wolves might. __________________

09-10-2009, 08:04 AM	#159
AC1speakerbox FFR Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Age: 32 Posts: 1,242	Re: TWG LXXXVII: Cloverfield Afro doesn't know me? :.( In any case, I can definitely see Temote's point. It was still incredibly mean, though. I've told Iggy this already, but Ruritsu has been known to lose his cool early in the game giving himself away as a wolf. At this point, he's probably our best bet, even if he wasn't the one behind the choice to take down Manti. Also Temote, my heart is heavy for the loss of your drunk Leafeon.

09-10-2009, 08:08 AM	#160
AC1speakerbox FFR Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Age: 32 Posts: 1,242	Re: TWG LXXXVII: Cloverfield I do realize that post leaves me at Afro's mercy, but I think it's the right choice given Ruritsu's play history.

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