what the **** ffr

[A2P]

I just thought up of a new system:

Instead of having users submit random songs, how about get permission from an artist first, then the administration can select a song, and hold a weekly step contest?

For example:

FFR gets permission from Naoki Maeda to step Max 300
Administration announces song
People step for that song, and get graded as such
The best stepchart makes it into the game

Just an idea I'm throwing out here.

[devonin]

Originally Posted by Xandertrax

Just a question: why did all the widget files go in-game in the first place? They are low quality, poorly synced, and had no screening.

Why not take them out of the game? or at the least, let the simfile authors fix up the sync, cut them, and make them somewhat fun?

is there any way to see how many gameplays they get a day?

They didn't have no screening. The widget songs were commissioned by Tass from a number of stepfile artists who could be generally trusted to create good files on a short timeframe. Mostly if they have a fault it is that they were rushed, and needed to be made too easy so as to be playable by people who use myspace but not FFR.

[who_cares973]

any rushed file is a bad file though and they shouldnt have been added to ffr just because they are widgets. every single widget file that was made wouldve most likely gotten rejected because of quality and fun value which is what xandertrax is saying and i agree. every widget file shouldve been revised and shouldve gone through the process like any other normal file.


that'd be cool if stepping contest would be held, it would bring new people into stepping andany kind of competition will make people better. the only thing about that is some people take longer to step than others and like i said before rushing a file is never a good thing unless the step artist knows exactly how to step a song

[Dorby]

Perhaps someone should compile a list of stepfiles that are generally bad (even if its lengthy) and have the community vote to either take them out or re-step them.

[devonin]

"bad steps" like "bad songs" is entirely subjective though. I've seen people talk about steps they hated that I completely enjoyed and vice versa.

No such list could ever be "correct" and so making it wouldn't accomplish anything except a round of disagreements as to which things on the list shouldn't be, and which things not on the list should be.

[Garquillex]

Originally Posted by devonin

"bad steps" like "bad songs" is entirely subjective though. I've seen people talk about steps they hated that I completely enjoyed and vice versa.

No such list could ever be "correct" and so making it wouldn't accomplish anything except a round of disagreements as to which things on the list shouldn't be, and which things not on the list should be.

Synthlight.

Maybe more people would stick around if many of the easy files were actually good.

[DarkManticoreX2]

Ave-miss fix is what killed ffr IMO. People are going to disagree, but the glitch restricted the files from being overstepped and overjacked. Simfile makers had to focus on making their files original difficult and fun. Ever since the avemiss fix, we've had an explosion of FMO/FGO songs that range from average to really poorly done. I think a lot of this was due to the fact that we could have 220 bpm 16th jacks now, but seriously, the game is overflowing with difficult files that are only moderately fun to play.

I've played a lot of the new files, but I haven't found one difficult better than halogen, or one Challenging better than tribal transcendency. It's Quality that we should be looking for. It just seems more like FFR's been going more for Quantity recently.

[Ghakimx]

This probably won't happen anymore, with the new judges and what not. Anything crappy is probably from the batch before them.

[Nullifidian]

Originally Posted by x After Dawn x

I haven't been on this site in a while, but I came back to check some stuff, hoping that the admins had dug the site out of the rut it was in.

and I find this:

http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...php?level=1305

seriously, what the **** happened to "high quality files only?" hell, what happened to the real music? I thought you guys weren't gonna accept anymore RATO-like songs / files but apparently the site must be doing really well to be able to do this kind of stuff.

peace. and no, I'm not trolling this time. I'm hoping somebody reads this and gives me a serious answer, cause this is just bad.

Originally Posted by x After Dawn x

That's actually exactly why I made this thread, don't be stupid. I would whore my way to a good average rank, but FFR is just full of ****ty songs that most people don't wanna play and sit at the bottom of our level ranks because of that.

Where does it say in your OP that this is about your levelranks?
?_?

Your second post doesn't mention level ranks either. Can't be bothered to check your other posts atm.

Originally Posted by devonin

"bad steps" like "bad songs" is entirely subjective though. I've seen people talk about steps they hated that I completely enjoyed and vice versa.

There are universally accepted standards for stepping files, like proper layering and PR. Alot of widget files are below these standards and thus are "bad" files, and in any normal batch they wouldn't have made it in.

Aside from the fact if people like the file or not, there are still standards every file has to meet up to.

[Silver_Brian]

Originally Posted by DarkManticoreX2

Ave-miss fix is what killed ffr IMO. People are going to disagree, but the glitch restricted the files from being overstepped and overjacked. Simfile makers had to focus on making their files original difficult and fun. Ever since the avemiss fix, we've had an explosion of FMO/FGO songs that range from average to really poorly done. I think a lot of this was due to the fact that we could have 220 bpm 16th jacks now, but seriously, the game is overflowing with difficult files that are only moderately fun to play.

I've played a lot of the new files, but I haven't found one difficult better than halogen, or one Challenging better than tribal transcendency. It's Quality that we should be looking for. It just seems more like FFR's been going more for Quantity recently.

An interesting point for sure, but it actually makes a lot of sense.

[Mollocephalus]

Originally Posted by devonin

"bad steps" like "bad songs" is entirely subjective though. I've seen people talk about steps they hated that I completely enjoyed and vice versa.

when the arrows are supposed to be all 8ths but you see them with walzing around in rainbow fashion

when you're supposed to have a jump and you see a gallop

yeah prove me wrong on these

[who_cares973]

Originally Posted by DarkManticoreX2

Ave-miss fix is what killed ffr IMO. People are going to disagree, but the glitch restricted the files from being overstepped and overjacked. Simfile makers had to focus on making their files original difficult and fun. Ever since the avemiss fix, we've had an explosion of FMO/FGO songs that range from average to really poorly done. I think a lot of this was due to the fact that we could have 220 bpm 16th jacks now, but seriously, the game is overflowing with difficult files that are only moderately fun to play.

I've played a lot of the new files, but I haven't found one difficult better than halogen, or one Challenging better than tribal transcendency. It's Quality that we should be looking for. It just seems more like FFR's been going more for Quantity recently.

im going to have to disagree with you on the avmiss fix killing ffr because all that did was open up sm to a whole new range of files. its really hard to make a good file that doesnt end up like a generic techno slow 8th jumpstream with 6-8 note burst when you arent allowed to use jacks if the bpm is higher than a certain bpm. yeah sure some of the old pre avmiss files were good but most could be greatly improved and made funner for the majority of the people. the thing that happened after the avmiss fix is that stepfile artists went lol lets make ffr like sm and restep sm files for ffr but all we're really doing is changing up patterns and taking out holds teehee ^_^. sm in general has a lot of harder files than ffr does in general and because of this a lot of the files that are being submitted/accepted into ffr are harder. right now ffr is in a phase i guess where people think harder is better and stepping every sound in a song makes it fun and good when it doesnt.

so in the end its not the avmiss fix's fault its the step artists that took the fix the wrong way


ps someone should revive the stepman university thread

[stargroup]

Originally Posted by gnr61

stargroup a lot of things you say are true, but your trying to objectify some glorious ideal standard of simfile making is ridiculous. we can encourage stepping "good songs" using inventive techniques and trying to reflect the music as well as possible, but there is no way to say "all these files are simply bad" and "all these files are simply good" because there is an absurd amount of variation in taste from player to player.

you and i enjoy a lot of the same things in simfiles, but even we disagree strongly about a lot of them from a file to file basis; looking at our respective nomination lists for your Ultimate Stepmania Theme project, a lot of files in mine wouldn't live up to your "standard" of simfiles while if yours alone will be used (and it will because you are so confident in your exclusive good taste in files) i feel like no one will pick up the game for very long at all due to a lack of scoring incentive or replayable files or accessible music (hey guess what the only 3 things new players will be looking for in a music game!).

the fact is, and this is why you stir up so much drama, EXCEPTIONALLY FEW PEOPLE SHARE YOUR EXACT TASTE IN SIMFILES. you simply cannot shape everyone's taste to appreciate your brand of quality simfiles over another. not everyone is a seasoned stepper, and until they are, the minute creative flourishes of something like kil's Bedtime Story will go over their heads while a file like Tranzport almost anyone can love without any "art file" experience because its constructed in a simple though highly accessible and fun manner.

if every file in ffr is like blue rose and planet karma, guess what; NO ONE WILL WANT TO PLAY FFR ANYMORE, because a relatively small portion of the community actually enjoys those kinds of files (i don't like either one, and that's saying something).

good luck with your site though, solo ffr having its own community will surely be a positive thing. and i don't want to discredit some of the other stuff people are bringing up: 5 minute rock songs that ZERO (not "not everyone," ZERO) competitive players want to play through, but have to to keep their ranks up, stuff like death piano and rato in a COMBO BASED scoring system, etc. surely standards -should- be raised beyond judging merely "technicality" and some minute degree of fun factor. it would cause hell among aspiring talentless simfile authors, but an amount of subjective review in the judging process (song selection, expressiveness, creativity, more emphasis on fun and replayability) will go a long way toward improving the general quality of the files in the game.

also it will help if you stop posting like an attention mongering elitist know-it-all and presented your ideas in a more discussion-oriented format (losing the "your wrong im right" clause tacked onto every point will go a long way)

well I get egotistical because I rage

which I haven't done in a long time here which I wanted to avoid which is why I wanted this thread goddamn locked

notice how I didn't say that all files of a certain group were good/bad. but I don't need to explain this to you.

also, about my choice of stepfiles in my theme project, do realize that our main priority is to find the artistic stepfiles IN ORDER to get people to get into good habit tastes from the start. partially the reason why we enjoy index-based files on spread is because we're used to them already. these are the files we "grew up on". OBVIOUSLY we're gonna need some scoring files, but we didn't talk about that yet or get to that because that's a different perspective altogether.

the reason few people share my taste (and I'm definitely not saying my taste is THE ULTIMATE ONE, I'm not always right, but I usually am) is because people were not thrown in that direction from the start, and as we all know, habits are everything

[Ghakimx]

Actually stargroup, I do infact like your DWIs (I'm gonna call it this from now on) along with music choice. The way it looks throughout are very distinct and unique. Heck, I could remember the majority of Blue Rose's arrows.

P.S. I ♥ your music

[Patashu]

delete every file except for =planet karma= and witches hat

start over. we'll repopulate the entire world with just adam and eve

[dAnceguy117]

Originally Posted by stargroup

well I get egotistical because I rage

which I haven't done in a long time here which I wanted to avoid which is why I wanted this thread goddamn locked

You need to be able to address topics and discuss them without getting angry.

Originally Posted by stargroup

I'm not always right, but I usually am

You're still in need of an attitude fix.

Originally Posted by garquillex

Maybe more people would stick around if many of the easy files were actually good.

Good point. I can't remember why Synthlight decided to keep his original files in the game. Nostalgia? They should at least be credit songs, so they would be hidden at first. Maybe even use the old password system. It looks like almost all of the difficulty 1-4 songs were put in the game within two years of 2nd Style's release. That could be something to focus on improving.

edit: ok right after I click reply I remember things

This was brought up a long time ago, and I'm sure it's come up many times since. Even as newer, more polished files for beginners came out, the originals remained around the top of the most played lists. Most novices can't tell how accurate a file is. It's still something to address, but it's not quite as alarming as it seems to many of us.

[devonin]

There've been plenty of advocates for restepping all the old blue-note songs, not just the ones that are easy (mario bros, et al) but hellbeat and cia rave and all the original blueskinned files.

The reasoning for why not has always been "history" and "nostalgia" and "AAA'ing all the synth songs is a bit of a rite of passage" and all that, but honestly, I see no reason why the songs that determine whether the majority of new users will stay or not shouldn't be done to be as precise and clear as possible.

[gnr61]

Originally Posted by _.Spitfire._

There are universally accepted standards for stepping files, like proper layering and PR.

nope

[Mollocephalus]

yes most files would need a fix. there are also a number of files that are blatantly out of sync, and i really have no idea why nothing has been fixed about either of those in years.

[omgitznpv]

Originally Posted by devonin

There've been plenty of advocates for restepping all the old blue-note songs, not just the ones that are easy (mario bros, et al) but hellbeat and cia rave and all the original blueskinned files.

The reasoning for why not has always been "history" and "nostalgia" and "AAA'ing all the synth songs is a bit of a rite of passage" and all that, but honestly, I see no reason why the songs that determine whether the majority of new users will stay or not shouldn't be done to be as precise and clear as possible.

not to mention i totally gouge my eyes out playing stuff like hellbeat party4u lethal injection etc. my eyes are bad enough as they are