The Great PA Tournament Of FFR - Round 2

[CR_fLiP_fOaM]

Finally yay

[HammyMcSquirrel]

Originally Posted by Sprite-

Uh better players worked harder to get their skill. They should be rewarded for that. Also, putting lower pots for lower divisions discourages people from making alts to get them in a lower division.

EnR was looking more at the effort required during the tournament itself, not building up to the tournament. It's more in the skill required to compete and rise against the people in the same division. The prize is for the work done within the tournament, not for the work outside of it.
Basically, the work required to make it into the top five for the beginners should essentially equal the work required to make into the top five for the masters. The beginner songs are/should be just as easy/hard for them like the master songs are for us.
I can see where you are coming from with the whole alts thing, but we didn't have the credit prizes up there when sign-ups were going on. This whole factor of equal prizes wouldn't have been the main incentive because it wasn't apparent knowledge.

I made the amounts the same across the divisions as desired by EnR. I didn't completely like it being that way, but I also saw how EnR wanted it with what I just brought up. I'll talk with him more about it tonight. We'll probably end up skewing the prizes a bit to be increased towards the harder difficulties, but not by too much.

[CR_fLiP_fOaM]

Yeah higher division should get higher prices and we all know that. Having same prices all 3 division is lame idea lol.

[Gun92]

Not really...what do Masters need more credits for...they just sit there, accumulating and doing nothing. Thats my opinion though.

[Sprite-]

So you're saying that every tournament up until this one was prized incorrectly?

[Gun92]

No, I'm saying why can't everyone have an equal chance to earn the same amount of credits? Yes there is a difference in difficulties, but like Hammy said, everyone in their own divisions has to work just as hard to win their division as anyone else in any other division. Credit break down is a tournament directors choice and if they feel that everyone deserves equal credits, so be it, honestly, what are you going to do with an extra 100k credits compared to someone who hasn't bought all the songs, or needs credits for the secret songs? I just think its fair, and its my opinion.

[Sprite-]

Why shouldn't they have to earn credits like we did? We were noobs once too.
Honestly, I don't even care about this. I'm against equal prizes for each division, but this isn't my tournament so whatever.
Every contest with divisions, including ones in real life, have bigger prizes for higher divisions. It's just how things are.

[Gun92]

I'm aware. I was just stating my opinion on the matter. When it comes down to it, its just fake "money" so it doesn't really mean next to anything. Just have fun, thats what I'm here to do, no more arguments out of me

[HammyMcSquirrel]

Originally Posted by Sprite-

Why shouldn't they have to earn credits like we did? We were noobs once too.

Eh...This is a form of earning credits for them, too. It's not like they aren't working to earn them right now. They are just being presented with an opportunity we didn't really have when we were at their skill level. That doesn't give us good reason to hold that fact against them and make them go through it like we did. The work in this tournament is essentially equal in difficulty to them as it is for us.

Every contest with divisions, including ones in real life, have bigger prizes for higher divisions. It's just how things are.

Yeah, it's how things usually are, but it doesn't mean it's how this tournament should be or has to be.
Really, the way I am seeing things right now...Masters want the master division to have more credits...It's like the people in the Master division that know they have a chance at placing high enough to be rewarded credits are saying the masters should get more. Again, you guys need to look at the work within the tournament in relation to each division. That's what I'm trying to get at.

Honestly, I don't even care about this. I'm against equal prizes for each division, but this isn't my tournament so whatever.

Well, if you don't care, then why bring it up in the first place? These two statements are essentially contradicting each other within the context of the current situation. I'm assuming it's really, "I did care, but now that it looks like nothing will change to what I want it to be like, I don't care."

Like I said before, the credits will most likely be skewed so there is a higher pot of credits as the division difficulty increases, but I'm also saying to look at this from a different perspective than what you are currently looking at. Also, when it comes down to it, the people in the lower division would most likely need the credits more than the people in the higher division because they haven't been playing as long to gain similar experience (and credits in that process).

Anyways, EnR desired this and, instead of complaining about it, I looked at it from his perspective and how it can work out. I see it being fine, despite how I would normally do it. To stop certain people from complaining, we'll raise the amount as the division difficulty increases.


Haha, man...credits are serious effin' business.

Edit: Here are the changes that were made.
Master:
1st: +15,000
2nd: +20,000
3rd: +25,000
4th: +20,000
5th: +10,000

Expert:
1st: +5,000
2nd: +10,000
3rd: +15,000
4th: +10,000
5th: +5,000

Advanced:
1st: -5,000
2nd: No change
3rd: +5,000
4th: No change
5th: No change

Intermediate:
1st: -15,000
2nd: -10,000
3rd: -5,000
4th: -10,000
5th: -5,000

Beginner:
1st: -25,000
2nd: -20,000
3rd: -15,000
4th: -20,000
5th: -10,000

[XUioX]

Higher devisions deserve higher amounts of credits then lower devisions. Higher devisions work harder in the tournament to get them. they DO work harder. And there hard work and experience should be recognized and rewarded. Its kind of why we have "difficulties" and wouldn't fit if we had all same credit prizes. Lower difficulties don't have to go through much, they haven't put as much effort into the game as long as others have, therefore they should receive a lower amount of credits. Im saying this even though I'M in intermediate lol.

This is kind of like how you get credits in the game. The harder you work at the song, the more credits rewarded.

Skill = Credits

EDIT: Is there going to be any re-adjusting to the credit prizes though? especially with 4th and 5th place which is easy to achieve. 14k prize for 5th place beginner? =O

[Sprite-]

Originally Posted by XUioX

This is kind of like how you get credits in the game. The harder you work at the song, the more credits rewarded.

This. Enough said.

[Gun92]

Originally Posted by XUioX

Higher devisions deserve higher amounts of credits then lower devisions. Higher devisions work harder in the tournament to get them. they DO work harder. And there hard work and experience should be recognized and rewarded. Its kind of why we have "difficulties" and wouldn't fit if we had all same credit prizes. Lower difficulties don't have to go through much, they haven't put as much effort into the game as long as others have, therefore they should receive a lower amount of credits. Im saying this even though I'M in intermediate lol.

This is kind of like how you get credits in the game. The harder you work at the song, the more credits rewarded.

Skill = Credits

EDIT: Is there going to be any re-adjusting to the credit prizes though? especially with 4th and 5th place which is easy to achieve. 14k prize for 5th place beginner? =O

Thats dumb. Who are you to say how much effort someone who just started playing actually puts into something like this? Why can't someone from beginner try just as hard as someone in Masters and get rewarded equally? Every winner usually goes through the same rigors of their skill level as someone else, so why is their efforts not as rewarded as someone else's? But what ever, it doesn't really matter, because its the complainers that get things changed to what they want, kinda like what Hammy said earlier. What ever, good luck to everyone in every division.

[HammyMcSquirrel]

I'm going to be repeating what Gun said, but I still want to address this.

Originally Posted by XUioX

Higher devisions deserve higher amounts of credits then lower devisions. Higher devisions work harder in the tournament to get them. they DO work harder. And there hard work and experience should be recognized and rewarded.

Just because the masters are playing songs with a higher difficult rating, it doesn't mean they necessarily work harder. The challenge presented to them could be just as much of a challenge presented to the beginners with their song.

Its kind of why we have "difficulties" and wouldn't fit if we had all same credit prizes. Lower difficulties don't have to go through much, they haven't put as much effort into the game as long as others have, therefore they should receive a lower amount of credits.

Basically what I said before. Effort is relative to skill. They could be putting in just as much effort in their song as the masters do in the master division's song.

This is kind of like how you get credits in the game. The harder you work at the song, the more credits rewarded.

"Hard work" is relative to the person's skill/abilities. "Hard work" makes up effort. See the connections?

Skill = Credits

Effort = credits, as well. The effort the beginners put in could be just as great as the effort the masters put in while in this tournament. Remember, I'm talking about here and now, not the past. The prizes for this tournament are rewarding what's going on now, and not what people went through in the past to get here. I know I'm repeating myself, but it seems to be necessary.

EDIT: Is there going to be any re-adjusting to the credit prizes though? especially with 4th and 5th place which is easy to achieve. 14k prize for 5th place beginner? =O

Probably not. *shrugs*
"Easy to achieve" is subjective. The person who pulls off 4th/5th may be someone who really worked his/her ass off to even get to that point. I may move around a couple thousand here and there.

[Sprite-]

Okay well I can elaborate on that statement. "The better you do on a song, the more credits you get." Therefore, if you're better, you'll get more credits.

[XUioX]

Originally Posted by Gun92

Thats dumb. Who are you to say how much effort someone who just started playing actually puts into something like this? Why can't someone from beginner try just as hard as someone in Masters and get rewarded equally? Every winner usually goes through the same rigors of their skill level as someone else, so why is their efforts not as rewarded as someone else's? But what ever, it doesn't really matter, because its the complainers that get things changed to what they want, kinda like what Hammy said earlier. What ever, good luck to everyone in every division.

Actually if you think its how much effort you put into the tournament to get such nice prizes, then your wrong, then where did your experience come from? You spend time getting better at the game so you can apply yourself in a tournament. When you apply your experience, sometimes you are rewarded for it. Its not just how much effort one put into a tournament. Dont exclude the outside experience in the game from the tournament. Its based off your experience you played in the game. Obviously it requires more effort to get better.

to sum it up: Effort your willing to put in the game-> Gaining experience from the game-> better job in a tournament-> Higher credit prizes BECAUSE of your effort.


EDIT:

Effort = credits, as well. The effort the beginners put in could be just as great as the effort the masters put in while in this tournament. Remember, I'm talking about here and now, not the past. The prizes for this tournament are rewarding what's going on now, and not what people went through in the past to get here. I know I'm repeating myself, but it seems to be necessary.

Youve' repeated "The effort the beginners put in could be just as great as the effort the masters" alot of times.

Ill have to correct you and say that effort is used to gain experience. experience gained (from effort) is used during the tournament.

Good players-put in alot of effort to obtain there experience
newbies-didnt put in as much as the good players to gain experience (but are atleast working on it)

If you say both master and noob put in the same amount of effort, they would have the same amount of experience. (impossible) so the master has more experience (from the effort) then the noob, therefore, more credits are given to the master for his experience (from his effort). Experience has a value.

Would it make more sense to have a noob receive more credit prizes then the master? Where has the masters work gone then?

[xplayfan]

[Nu0n]

This song is really annoying.

[funmonkey54]

This at least gets me past to the next round. I will improve if absolutely necessary.

[MystictheHedgehog]

Originally Posted by XUioX

Actually if you think its how much effort you put into the tournament to get such nice prizes, then your wrong, then where did your experience come from? You spend time getting better at the game so you can apply yourself in a tournament. When you apply your experience, sometimes you are rewarded for it. Its not just how much effort one put into a tournament. Dont exclude the outside experience in the game from the tournament. Its based off your experience you played in the game. Obviously it requires more effort to get better.

to sum it up: Effort your willing to put in the game-> Gaining experience from the game-> better job in a tournament-> Higher credit prizes BECAUSE of your effort.

Let me sum up what you are saying.

Hey, masters deserve more credits because they have spent probably more time in the game overall. Hey, too bad if you are new, and you haven't had the time to get as good as others. Or hey if this is your first tourny, too bad. It's your own fault for not being part of the game sooner, or finding the site sooner. It doesn't matter you actually have to put forth several hours more effort just to get a decent score just to get you into contention for a prize, your prize will be less because Advanced play harder songs that some of them have to put forth barely any effort to AAA their song.

Makes perfect sense. Sorry, sticking with Hammy on this one. Just because they are in beginner doesn't mean they spend any less effort on getting a good score than any other division.

Originally Posted by XUioX

Would it make more sense to have a noob receive more credit prizes then the master? Where has the masters work gone then?

It was already stated that they are aiming to reward based on the EFFORT IN THIS TOURNAMENT. Think about it. Who puts in more effort? A beginner who spends 3 hours just to get an 11 good run, or a master who AAA's their song in one shot. I'm not taking anything away from what the masters are able to accomplish, don't get me wrong. I could never hope to accomplish what they can do. But how can you fault someone who spends so long just trying to get a good score in the game? Effort is evenly divided in this tournament. There is always someone working just as hard in one division as the other. Therefore, prizes should be evenly dispersed. Masters have spent more time overall, yes. No one is disagreeing with that statement. Beginner's are just getting started, and some haven't had the time or been part of the site long enough to be equal with a master. Stop trying to fault them for that.

[[HectoGtzMX]]

This sucks, I can't play FGO's without lagging, so I might be out this round. Thanks for moving me up -__-;