Need some opinions

[Nullifidian]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

Because FFR has no intentions on allowing files to be released/copied/etc., once a file is converted, a user should have no rights to that particular content, as it belongs to FFR. You forfeit the right to it explicitly belonging to you when you voluntarily submit it to FFR.

This is an assumption, and that's not how things work. If you do not explicitly mention that the content becomes property of FFR once it's submitted/released and the submitter agreed to it, you have no ground to stand on. Legally you can't act on an assumptions, because that causes confusion. This is why contracts and agreements are made. You don't forfeit any rights unless explicitly mentioned and agreed to.

Now, again, I remember reading some rules about submitting content to FFR but unless this is dug up, the step artist is in their full right to remove any files at their wish regardless of any other opinions.

[Zageron]

Except for the fact that we're talking about a completely un-monetary based system, built with no copyright in mind. By submitting the file, FFR was not being 'granted' permission to use it. More like FFR waits for file submissions so that files are more original, step artists want their files to be on FFR so they make them for FFR.

If FFR was making money off of files, this would be an entirely different story, but it's not. (Which is why the previous rule regarding forfeit of rites existed.)

This isn't a 'breach of legal' situation. At all. There are no legal grounds here.

[Wayward Vagabond]

iirc it actually used to be in the rules and i cant seem to find it but i know it was there and tass mentioned it on several occasions as well. this isnt like it would be hard to fix though. just add it to the rules in the queue batch discussion thread and there will no longer be any question.

[Crazyjayde]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

Now, again, I remember reading some rules about submitting content to FFR but unless this is dug up, the step artist is in their full right to remove any files at their wish regardless of any other opinions.

Then again, all content prior the this date, and the date of a future rights transfer agreement will be eligible to be removed, which is the entirety of the site. I agree we could remove the mentioned stepartist content for this case if he insists, but I believe it always have been implied that when you submit files to the site, you agree on such terms.

But seriously, it's going to be hard to agree on this if we can't find proper info in our logs. If psychoangel is reading this, I'd like to know what's the update on the discussion, as he agreed to anything or is he maintaining his position? If his position still doesn't sway, I support removing the content he asked for, but not the entirety. I mean, he's basically asking for us to improve his files.

[trumaestro]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

- once the file is submitted, it gets converted to a format playable by FFR. FFR operates on a completely different platform than SM. In order for it to work properly, it needs to be ported from a 60-FPS/ms-based timing to a 30-FPS/frame-based timing. Because FFR has no intentions on allowing files to be released/copied/etc., once a file is converted, a user should have no rights to that particular content, as it belongs to FFR. You forfeit the right to it explicitly belonging to you when you voluntarily submit it to FFR.

By extension, would you then argue that music artists have no right to remove their songs when they voluntarily give permission for FFR? I'm not solid on all the technical stuff, but the music still needs to be edited and stored on the site. Does that music now belong to FFR? And if not, then why should we treat simfiles any differently from music? Both are creative works that FFR benefits from.

One can consider FFR as more of a museum. It's a host for creative content, but does not necessarily create any on its own (aside from game engines and the site itself). If an artist no longer wants his work on display, then take it down and move on. Until there is something set in stone saying otherwise, that's what needs to be done.

[SK8R43]

Originally Posted by trumaestro

By extension, would you then argue that music artists have no right to remove their songs when they voluntarily give permission for FFR? I'm not solid on all the technical stuff, but the music still needs to be edited and stored on the site. Does that music now belong to FFR? And if not, then why should we treat simfiles any differently from music? Both are creative works that FFR benefits from.

One can consider FFR as more of a museum. It's a host for creative content, but does not necessarily create any on its own (aside from game engines and the site itself). If an artist no longer wants his work on display, then take it down and move on. Until there is something set in stone saying otherwise, that's what needs to be done.

Yeah not really, technically it is no longer theirs anyways so it doesnt HAVE to be taken down.

[psychoangel691]

If a music artist gave us the right to use their music I'm fairly certain we can hold that right to keep it in (Unless we breach the agreement such as starting to make money on the site or allowing people to download). They may be able to revoke for newer stuff that comes out, but I think once the permission is granted and the content is in it's in. If there's something in game we don't have permission for that's a different story, which has happened.

@crazy I haven't talked to him since last night.

[trumaestro]

Originally Posted by SK8R43

Yeah not really, technically it is no longer theirs anyways so it doesnt HAVE to be taken down.

But where does it say that? So far there is no policy.

Originally Posted by psychoangel691

If a music artist gave us the right to use their music I'm fairly certain we can hold that right to keep it in (Unless we breach the agreement such as starting to make money on the site or allowing people to download). They may be able to revoke for newer stuff that comes out, but I think once the permission is granted and the content is in it's in. If there's something in game we don't have permission for that's a different story, which has happened.

Suppose a music artist who gave permission wants songs removed. What happens? I don't think there are any grounds to deny removing songs. Because there is/was no known policy about stepfiles either, then there are no grounds to deny removing them.

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by trumaestro

But where does it say that? So far there is no policy.




Suppose a music artist who gave permission wants songs removed. What happens? I don't think there are any grounds to deny removing songs. Because there is/was no known policy about stepfiles either, then there are no grounds to deny removing them.

I'm fairly certain we're not obligated to remove that song because they did in fact give us permission. They can revoke further permissions for future songs but I don't think they can make us remove something permission was given for.

[trumaestro]

Originally Posted by psychoangel691

I'm fairly certain we're not obligated to remove that song because they did in fact give us permission. They can revoke further permissions for future songs but I don't think they can make us remove something permission was given for.

We may not be obligated, but is that the right thing to do? Simply removing it would harvest a better relationship with that artist and others, as well as avoid any drama that not removing it could create.

Whatever is ultimately decided, the rules for adding and removing either stepfiles or music should be similar if not the same.

[hi19hi19]

Hey guys remove all my files plz

They are bad and people hate them










jk no thats a selfish dick thing to ask for

[Wayward Vagabond]

permission to use =/= take ownership

[justin_ator]

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

Hey guys remove all my files plz

They are bad and people hate them










jk no thats a selfish dick thing to ask for

I haven't seen you post in a while, is it bad that I thought maybe the person wanting them removed was you? Kinda realized it wasn't once I heard how many files and the timeframe they were released.

[Pseudo Enigma]

imho I say let them get ripped out, it's for quality over all. As long as one is asking for their older files to get taken out anyway. This goes for everyone.

We need to do an overhaul of all the old files anyway.

*this is my opinion without reading the tl;dr 6 pages*
sorry if it's been said before.

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by Pseudo Enigma

imho I say let them get ripped out, it's for quality over all. As long as one is asking for their older files to get taken out anyway. This goes for everyone.

We need to do an overhaul of all the old files anyway.

*this is my opinion without reading the tl;dr 6 pages*
sorry if it's been said before.

This has nothing to do with quality, this has to do with the person just not liking them nor really liking ffr anymore basically. If one person is allowed to that means ALL simartists would have to be allowed to. So lets make the scenario files that are recent and of "high quality" that is requested.

A lot of people have been trying to make the argument of quality or liked/disliked files but that's really not what this is about. It's either yes any simfile author should be able to remove any or all of their files if they wish, or no they shouldn't be able to just take their files out.

[Pseudo Enigma]

I think you misunderstand, I was saying only IF it's a Legacy file or similar. Maybe the simartist should have a panel vote?

edit Otherwise the artist shouldn't have any right to remove it imo

[dAnceguy117]

Originally Posted by Zageron

Except for the fact that we're talking about a completely un-monetary based system, built with no copyright in mind.

I don't think that's how copyright works, though...

Originally Posted by _.Spitfire._

Now, again, I remember reading some rules about submitting content to FFR but unless this is dug up, the step artist is in their full right to remove any files at their wish regardless of any other opinions.

+1. I agree that requesting mass removal is selfish, but retroactively applying a newly created rule would be wrong in my opinion.

[justin_ator]

I say we wipe FFR and start new

R^4

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by Pseudo Enigma

I think you misunderstand, I was saying only IF it's a Legacy file or similar. Maybe the simartist should have a panel vote?

edit Otherwise the artist shouldn't have any right to remove it imo

We can't just be like okay this person can do it because the file is old but this person can't. It has to be either they can or can't. Either files are esentially property of the FFR game once sent in or they're not. I also don't know why people keep going back to legacy files, this had nothing to do with legacy nor does the person have any legacy files x.x

Originally Posted by dAnceguy117

+1. I agree that requesting mass removal is selfish, but retroactively applying a newly created rule would be wrong in my opinion.

Most of the users that have been here a while are pretty sure that there was in fact a rule previously that may have been left out of the new thread. Once the site returned a lot of things were a bit screwy in a lot of ways.

[Pseudo Enigma]

Originally Posted by justin_ator

I say we wipe FFR and start new

R^4

lol +1

Originally Posted by psychoangel691

We can't just be like okay this person can do it because the file is old but this person can't. It has to be either they can or can't. Either files are esentially property of the FFR game once sent in or they're not. I also don't know why people keep going back to legacy files, this had nothing to do with legacy nor does the person have any legacy files x.x

This is just an opinion. Also the Legacy files are horribad and need to be removed, that's why everyone says so. Quality>Nostalgia

Also based on my opinion, then no, this guy shouldn't have any right to remove his files.

edit: again, an opinion.