02-8-2013, 01:11 AM | #81 | |
Rhythm game specialist.
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Re: Need some opinions
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Also, didn't realize that I was that close to being backpaged, so I'll put what I posted last page in a spoiler: Last edited by TC_Halogen; 02-8-2013 at 01:14 AM.. |
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02-8-2013, 01:26 AM | #82 |
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Re: Need some opinions
Yes, they should be allowed. I mean makes perfect sense. We should also have rappers and song artist that their music played in movies do the same damn thing.
-.- people annoy me |
02-8-2013, 01:33 AM | #83 |
the Haku
Join Date: Jul 2005
Age: 35
Posts: 4,527
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Re: Need some opinions
I still don't get how someone can do something for free and lose their ability to have a say on their own material that made it into the game. Music artists gives permission for using their songs, but simfiles artists don't have anything saying that they give permission to FFR to lose property of their simfiles ignoring the distribution part.
If a music artist request removal of a song no one will say anything and it will be removed. (see FF7 last battle, Chrono Trigger etc.) Why when the simfile artist request removal for X reason, it doesn't work out? (In fact, DrugstoreCowboy got Let Me Be Your Pirate removed, but since he's the one who made the music on top of stepping it, he had no issues with removal.. I know there's 22 files in the line this time, but the same logic should apply regardless.) It doesn't matter if one person, ten people or one million people die in an accident. It sucks in every case. Everyone should have an equal value when it comes to songs. Stepping is a voluntary process and should be treated with respect even if it means losing that amazing song everyone loved and played 500+ times in hope to achieve a good score. As an example, It's like my parents bought me a Nintendo 64 for Christmas and decided to take it away after 2-3 months because I was playing 18 hours per day on it and now I got mad because they removed my N64 and I want to play video games. I mean cmon they're the ones who bought it, they got the right. It's not because I'm the main user that it matters. The only difference is that in FFR's case we got plenty of other songs left and more to come with batches etc. there's nothing wrong with these changes. Hopefully that makes some sense. /opinion Last edited by Hakulyte; 02-8-2013 at 01:39 AM.. |
02-8-2013, 01:34 AM | #84 |
behanjc & me are <3'ers
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,051
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Re: Need some opinions
terrible song, suuuuperrr boorrrriiinnggg chart
the main reason I submitted it was actually to make a point that the judges back then had subpar standards and overall not very good judgments and reasoning behind their decisions
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02-8-2013, 01:36 AM | #85 |
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Re: Need some opinions
We didn't have permission for FF7 or Chrono.. Only reason there was no discussion on that is because lawsuits. Permission is instantly given when you submit your stepchart.
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02-8-2013, 01:36 AM | #86 |
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: Need some opinions
from a legal standpoint, FFR can't do anything about it unless stated explicitly that they own the rights. Rights don't get transferred without notifying both parties involved.
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02-8-2013, 01:38 AM | #87 | |
Rhythm game specialist.
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Re: Need some opinions
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This topic is an arguable one that really doesn't have a viable solution on both sides (which is why I didn't bother quoting/responding to the rest) -- it all comes down to the fact that the removal is unnecessary, as permission was granted in the past by voluntary submission in the past but is being rescinded without a real discernible reason. |
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02-8-2013, 01:41 AM | #88 | |
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Re: Need some opinions
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But i get exactly what you are saying Some people might think differently on this, but in reality its really the way it should be regardless if they bought it or not. lol
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02-8-2013, 01:49 AM | #89 | |
Rhythm game specialist.
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Re: Need some opinions
Gonna quote myself to address one more thing:
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In terms of legalities, anyone who submits a simfile completely loses their rights the moment the file is converted, because it becomes a file -for FFR-, which again, is something that isn't intended to be "openly downloadable". |
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02-8-2013, 01:52 AM | #90 | |
the Haku
Join Date: Jul 2005
Age: 35
Posts: 4,527
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Re: Need some opinions
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Last edited by Hakulyte; 02-8-2013 at 01:56 AM.. |
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02-8-2013, 01:57 AM | #91 |
Rhythm game specialist.
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Re: Need some opinions
Yeah, definitely. Guidelines need to be set in stone after some deliberation about which decision is the right one, so situations like this don't happen anymore.
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02-8-2013, 02:05 AM | #92 |
🥓<strong><span style="col
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Re: Need some opinions
If he distributes the original SM files to his songs do they get taken down anyway?
just being curious
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02-8-2013, 02:34 AM | #93 |
Rhythm game specialist.
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Re: Need some opinions
Not sure, but because it's ported, it would probably be more beneficial to punish him for releasing the files rather than punishing others who actually enjoy the files. SM isn't FFR and people struggle with the difference all of the time.
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02-8-2013, 02:37 AM | #94 | |
The FFRchiver
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: USA
Age: 30
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Re: Need some opinions
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What I would recommend (and hopefully this would close this gray area of files that were sent into FFR before the rules are clearly posted) is that there is some sort of retroactive clause for all files in game, and for authors to appeal if they don't want their files to fall under the "new" terms. You could give an appeal grace period to notify an administrator about this for a couple weeks or something, and then after that every file will be considered retroactively under the "new" policy aside from ones authors appealed for (for whatever reason). I know you say that this is a different medium and that you feel FFR would be legally protected, but unless you can pull up some laws that can prove this without a shadow of a doubt I would much rather be on the safe side of things here. Example terms for stepfile authors. Yup, I wrote all that...
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Last edited by foxfire667; 02-8-2013 at 03:31 AM.. |
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02-8-2013, 03:19 AM | #95 |
Rhythm game specialist.
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Re: Need some opinions
There's no risk of legality issues, and it can be proven through a short assessment of what exactly happens when gathering the means for making a simfile.
In terms of licensing, music gathered for FFR is typically explicit permission from the artist (or label) under these parameters, or implicit permissions that automatically give permissions (classic music due to copyright expiration, Creative Commons licenses, etc). Here's how this would work: - an artist gives permission to FFR to use for their game (blanket, or not), or has a license on their audio that would imply that it is safe for FFR. In one case, you have explicit permission -- in the other, you have implicit permission. Anything that doesn't fall in this scenario would not be considered for inclusion. - content made on StepMania is generally for use for others using StepMania, which is a free game that makes no profit, and allows for derivatives that can in fact make profit (see: Pulsen, In The Groove, PIU Pro, etc), and content made through SM can be used on SM or those derivatives safely because SM is and will continue to be open-source. Because StepMania is open-source, the files it uses to make the game function are also open-source and have no licensing attributions behind them. Therefore, SM and SSC files (on their own) have no direct licensing either. Therefore, anyone has permission to create a .sm/.ssc file at anytime without risk, either through SM, or some other means. EDIT: Because Dance With Intensity was an abandoned project and SM supports the saving of .dwi files in older versions, it is also probably correct to assume that .dwi files are an entity of SM that can be considered open-source as well, because if SM works with it, then the source to make it work a certain way probably can be modified as well. - a simfile artist uses DDreamStudio/SM to create a .sm file and voluntarily submits it to FFR for judgment and inclusion into the game. Because SM/SSC files have no direct licensing on their own, the closest you can get to a license/permission is through the simfile artist that created the content for StepMania, because they have rights to the content within it. At this point, if they submit it to FFR for inclusion, they are sending it to a completely different platform. StepMania itself does not have any rules against distributing content. - once the file is submitted, it gets converted to a format playable by FFR. FFR operates on a completely different platform than SM. In order for it to work properly, it needs to be ported from a 60-FPS/ms-based timing to a 30-FPS/frame-based timing. Because FFR has no intentions on allowing files to be released/copied/etc., once a file is converted, a user should have no rights to that particular content, as it belongs to FFR. You forfeit the right to it explicitly belonging to you when you voluntarily submit it to FFR. In any circumstance, because FFR is free/non-profit and everything associated with it is legally free/licensed, there aren't any legal issues that can possibly be resolved. It all comes down to the question of whether or not it's worthwhile to remove content, and considering it comes at the cost of losing 22 simfiles, I'm pretty sure that staff would be against it. Licensing issues are non-existent and everything is done voluntarily, and unless there is an extreme circumstance where removal is an absolute necessity, files should just be left alone. Last edited by TC_Halogen; 02-8-2013 at 03:31 AM.. |
02-8-2013, 03:48 AM | #96 | |
Spun a twirly fruitcake,
Join Date: Feb 2009
Age: 31
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Re: Need some opinions
I've only read the first two pages, then it got tl;dr.
I only wanted to know WHY he/she wants his/her files removed? It wasn't explained in the OP, nor in he succeeding two pages. --- Unrelated to the above --- The argument "it'll affect everyone's rank if it gets removed" is kind of derogatory. If this site has come to the point that files aren't appreciated for how they're made, but only for one's ranking on given file, it's getting out of hand. Competitive spirit is fine and all, but keep it real. As an example, I despise my Op.10 No.9 file. On the one hand, people say they enjoy playing the file, so I'm fine with it being in game. On the other hand, if people are only saying that because they have a good rank on it compared to other people, I'd want it removed from the game. With the latter: the stepartist doesn't feel rewarded for his efforts, rather blamed. Wow, it's easy to go tl;dr on this topic. I'm such a hypocrite
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Quote:
Last edited by SKG_Scintill; 02-8-2013 at 03:57 AM.. |
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02-8-2013, 03:56 AM | #97 | |||
The FFRchiver
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: USA
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Re: Need some opinions
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Although FFR and StepMania are two different things, an FFR file converted from StepMania doesn't fall under some sort of free use doctrine, nor does it grant FFR a pass from giving the rights of the stepped content to the original authors without some sort of consent before hand. A converted file is something that resembles the created work as closely as possible, where the only differences are the limitations of the FFR conversion software. It is similar to that of copying a creative work, and moving it somewhere else, sort of like a port from one thing to another. For example, if I were the owner of a video game, and I gave a group of people the sole permission to port my game from a platform (like platform x) to platform y, but I decided for whatever reason to revoke my permission down the road, are you saying that because it was ported from one platform to another, that I no longer have the rights to my video game? Of course something like this would be highly unorthodox, but I'm just trying to show you where I'm coming from here. The content of the stepped material is essentially unchanged from it's original form (aside from using commands from an swf instead of reading from a SM file). As you said yourself, the step author owns the creative content inside the file (not the sm / dwi / ssc itself) so all the conversion would really mean is that the fashion in which the arrows flow would be owned by the step author, but not the swf itself. This is still intellectual property, and I feel could be legally considered as infringement if permission was revoked and FFR staff refuses to comply. I mean, if the music was compiled into an swf that made it somehow impossible to convert back to it's original format, would that suddenly mean you would believe that the musician no longer holds the rights to the music any longer if they try ro revoke their permissions? EDIT: Quote:
Quote:
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Last edited by foxfire667; 02-8-2013 at 03:59 AM.. |
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02-8-2013, 04:01 AM | #98 |
Rhythm game specialist.
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Re: Need some opinions
Scintill: ranks are not the only reason why this is bad, but it certainly is a reason. Assuming that people don't care about the files for what they are is really ridiculous.
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02-8-2013, 04:13 AM | #99 | |
Spun a twirly fruitcake,
Join Date: Feb 2009
Age: 31
Posts: 3,865
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Re: Need some opinions
It was an assumption, I wasn't expecting it to be true. Though, the person in question might feel that way.
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02-8-2013, 10:53 AM | #100 |
Confirmed Heartbreaker
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Re: Need some opinions
how could i miss this thread.
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