Super Smash Brothers Brawl

[Squeek]

Yo, mr. troll / flamebaiter rawr.

Keep it up and get banned. Kthx.

I find it absolutely hilarious that you claim you know so much about the game, yet you didn't even know Sonic's Final Smash.

If you know so little about that, you might not know anything about how people can be good at a game without having to play in a tournament.

[RoastedNoob]

There's a fight on YouTube where he goes Super Sonic, he flies around with a constant hitbox on him... and btw, it's going to be way more than 20-25 characters, or people are going to be UPSET. lololol There were 26 characters in Brawl, Sakurai said, if I'm not mistaken, that there will be AT MOST 50 characters.

EDIT: Your point is kinda of invalid, Squeek. =\ He talks about knowing alot about Melee, not Brawl. =X

PS: WTF is going on with FFR lately?

EDIT2: Sonic vs. Link: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Xevted1Xu-4

EDIT3: More Interesting w/ Super Sonic: Sonic vs. Ike: http://youtube.com/watch?v=D533pueDHLc

[arsonistsgetallthegirls]

50 characters?

Oh my god!
How many third party characters are there going to be?
These next two months of updates will be crazy...

[Relambrien]

Originally Posted by Squeek

Apparently not since the tourneybums in this thread continue to tell me that I suck at this game.

By their standards, yes, you do. That's simply a fact. The thing is that people have different standards that determine how good you are at the game, by your standards you're amazing, by some others' standards you're horrible. It's like this everywhere, not just in Smash, since there is -never- an objective, clear definition of "skill."

Take for example the game of chess. If you can beat everyone in your neighborhood quickly, then the people in your neighborhood will view you as amazing. However, a grandmaster will view you as horrible. This is called "relative skill"

Or, in the context of another video game, take an MMO. Players who mainly PvE and are very good at farming/grinding/doing certain dungeons or whatever will be seen as amazing by others who play that way, and perhaps horrible by people who play a different way that the person is not good at, such as PvPers. Just like that person will view the PvPers as horrible.

The second situation applies more to Smash than the first, but you get the idea. When you start accepting that you are, in fact, horrible by certain people's standards, things become a lot easier. You don't have to care about their standards, but trying to claim that you're fantastic when others don't even use the same criteria as you is completely useless.

[Squeek]

No, I've always known that I suck a lot more at close-range combat with items off. That's why I don't even bother with the people who follow tournament rules.

I believe I even said before that I prefer ranged fighting. Hyrule Temple is my favorite stage, after all.

The reason I'm annoyed is that the way tournaments are set up is just testing skill in a small portion of the game. I would gladly participate in a tournament where everyone is forced to pick a random character and a random stage with pre-determined items (beam sword, blaster rifle, etc. No healing items, no bob-oms or hammers, etc.).

Unfortunately, you'd all call that relying on "luck". I'd call that relying on "skill". Difference of opinion here. My idea of skill is being good at a game no matter what curveball is thrown at you. Your idea of skill is being able to play Marth / Fox / Peach in a one-on-one close-range combat on a flat stage with no items.

If you can only play one, two, or even five characters, that's kinda sad in my opinion. I can play all 25 equally. I can play with any item combination with any character on any stage.

That also might be why my skill against bots is lower than yours. My skill is balanced along 25 different characters where yours is focused on one or two, so you absolutely master that character.

My technique will not change when Brawl comes. I hope there are 30+ characters so I can master all of them and be able to play any one of them at the drop of a hat.

[slickskater29]

Originally Posted by Squeek

Yo, mr. troll / flamebaiter rawr.

Keep it up and get banned. Kthx.

#1. I find it absolutely hilarious that you claim you know so much about the game, yet you didn't even know Sonic's Final Smash.

#2. If you know so little about that, you might not know anything about how people can be good at a game without having to play in a tournament.

I numbered these for better reference. Let me get this strait. #1 is a fact. He did not know that small fact. Because he did not know that small fact, he doesn't know anything about how people can be good at a game without having to play in a tournament (#2). #2 has absolutely nothing to do with #1. Also, in reply to #1, he was talking about Melee, not Brawl.

Also, for 3rd part characters, we already have 2. I am expecting one more, but it won't be in the blog. He/She will be the last character you unlock, and make you go "WTF?!"

EDIT: Skill? Say I'm raping you with combos, and an exploding box spawns on me and kills me. That takes so much skill...

[RoastedNoob]

Mastering a character is just getting the feel and flow of their movements, which is easily done after a little bit of sitting and messing around with them. When you reach the point of being "decent" at tournament level, you become decent at every aspect and character of the game. When I only played Marth, and I came back from Cali. I was suddenly able to play everyone and beat anyone I could beat, with any character. People that play without items on tournament, are still really ****ing good with items. They aren't focused on the "stupid tourny rules." They are focused on the game as a whole. You are good at the game by understanding the game, not understanding the character. Understanding the characters just give you some informational advantage, which is very slight.

[Squeek]

All I meant by that is that I find it hilarious that someone who claims to know so much about this franchise wouldn't watch the video of Sonic's introduction, where it clearly shows Super Sonic. I mean, it wasn't even a question.

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/sonic.html

And my statement has everything to do with it. His lack of knowledge tells me he is solely focused on reading SmashBoards or whatever it is that MLG tourneygoers post on and nothing else. Therefore, he'd have absolutely no idea that other techniques even exist, let alone whether they are worthwhile or not.

And Roasted, as I've never seen a video with someone from MLG using items, I can't verify that statement.

[RoastedNoob]

..because they are all tournament videos. There won't be items, but it doesn't mean they never use them and suck with them. I know there are some people out there like that, like my cousin. He HATES items, I LOVE items, but I never play with them... but I'm still just as good with them as without them... and we're smashers, not tournygoers. >.> Btw, there use to be items in tournaments, but due to the randomly exploding crates/barrels/capsules, they were removed from tournament play. Now, if you have the option to turn random exploding containers off, there is a good chance of items being on in tournament play.. but random stage/character is just stupid. One of the best things about Smash is that you get to play with you favorite Nintendo character.

EDIT: You already do random stage, the counter-pick for loser. Stages are banned, because they are giving advantages/disadvantages to different characters. Banned stages aren't banned because are are different and fun. They get banned, because tournaments have to be as balanced as they can to get the most accurate result. I mean, would you REALLY want to be picking random stage/character for the last match with 1k+ on the line? I think not.

[Squeek]

Again, I understand the MLG stance on allowing luck to be a factor. It just bothers me because if I were ever to play someone from the MLG in a non-tournament fashion and they lost, they might just blame it on the fact that I had items on or that the stage killed them, not me. Then if I played by their rules, I'd obviously lose.

It's a lose/lose situation. That's what bothers me. Both of us would be able to blame the play style of the other and it would totally not rely on skill at all.

[Relambrien]

EDIT: Ninjaed by Squeek, will reply at bottom.

Originally Posted by Squeek

No, I've always known that I suck a lot more at close-range combat with items off. That's why I don't even bother with the people who follow tournament rules.

Then stop claiming to be fantastic at the game to people who use tournament rules.

Originally Posted by Squeek

The reason I'm annoyed is that the way tournaments are set up is just testing skill in a small portion of the game. I would gladly participate in a tournament where everyone is forced to pick a random character and a random stage with pre-determined items (beam sword, blaster rifle, etc. No healing items, no bob-oms or hammers, etc.).

Unfortunately, you'd all call that relying on "luck". I'd call that relying on "skill". Difference of opinion here. My idea of skill is being good at a game no matter what curveball is thrown at you. Your idea of skill is being able to play Marth / Fox / Peach in a one-on-one close-range combat on a flat stage with no items.

In another thread, SSBM Competitive Info I think it was called, didn't you say something along the lines of this?

"You could be the best Bowser player in the world, but even a moderately good Marth or Sheik will beat you."

Or am I thinking of someone else?

If you believe that, then why on EARTH would you advocate random characters? A person may be given an absolutely horrible matchup and lose when, under neutral settings, he would win easily.

And besides, once again you're trying to impose on everybody, saying that your way is the best way. Why can't you just accept that maybe people have more fun playing a way that you don't?

Oh, and I'm assuming that all the "you"s in your post were referring to me. You seem to have missed earlier where I said I'm trying to be an objective voice here, trying to get people to understand the other side's method of thinking. I would appreciate it if I wasn't labeled as part of either side...it just irks me, sorry.

Originally Posted by Squeek

Again, I understand the MLG stance on allowing luck to be a factor. It just bothers me because if I were ever to play someone from the MLG in a non-tournament fashion and they lost, they might just blame it on the fact that I had items on or that the stage killed them, not me. Then if I played by their rules, I'd obviously lose.

It's a lose/lose situation. That's what bothers me. Both of us would be able to blame the play style of the other and it would totally not rely on skill at all.

You're referring to something called "johns," basically meaning "excuses." In the competitive Smash community, johns are very much looked down upon. Most everyone tends to hate you if you john frequently, so I doubt there are any MLG players who would do what you describe.

This is why I'm trying to mediate: each side's ignorance of the other is causing a lot of misunderstandings and assumptions.

[RoastedNoob]

If they blamed their loss on items, just say, "no excuses, noob." ..and if you are equally good with each character, go Peach when they want to give it a shot with no items. Then spam your turnips... because if you beat them with items, you're most likely going to beat them without.. but Peach will give you that advantage you might need. Peach is such a fun character. x.x

[Squeek]

I can't do player-based items. Peach, Link, and Young Link. There's too much of a delay when they're bringing the items out. It's terrible.

I hate Peach. She's one of my worst players. She's too unpredictable. Her smash attack can be one of three things, she can pull weird things from the ground, etc.

[KKKEEENNN]

In my opinion, I believe that a Smasher that is good at playing matches with items AND without items is a skillful Smasher. It's ok if you skilled with one of them, but you'll be a lot more recognized if you can use both variables easily.

[RoastedNoob]

It's a shorter delay than an item spawn time. >.> You can pull and throw like 10 turnips before the first items drops. Pull one at the start of the match, throw, pull another. Keep the defense up and get a strong attack in when they guard is down. Get them near/off the edge, and start edgeguarding them.

[Buttoxin]

I'm guessing tomorrow's update will be music. I just looked at Friday's update for the first time earlier, I was a little suprised about the up-B move.

[RoastedNoob]

I was surprised by the up-b, as well.. but then I realized it totally fits. Dedede is going to be amaazzziing. He'll probably suck in the game, but it'll be so amazing playing as him!! lol Dedede and Sonic are the most interesting newcomers to me, so far. I was a little excited about Diddy, but Dedede replaced him quickly. I've been hoping for Dedede for a while. =X I had a dream Bowser Jr. was in Brawl, and that's my last hopeful character that I can think of. I'm going to cry with joy WHEN I see his confirmation.

[tsugomaru]

Are you kidding? When I play Link, I always try to have my bomb out just in case I might need it. There are a lot of times when you'll be able to pull it out. The only times I don't use it is when there are items to throw nearby which are just faster to pick up.

~Tsugomaru

[l2awr]

Originally Posted by tsugomaru

Are you kidding? When I play Link, I always try to have my bomb out just in case I might need it. There are a lot of times when you'll be able to pull it out. The only times I don't use it is when there are items to throw nearby which are just faster to pick up.

~Tsugomaru

Just give up...I did.

Originally Posted by RoastedNoob

There's a fight on YouTube where he goes Super Sonic, he flies around with a constant hitbox on him... and btw, it's going to be way more than 20-25 characters, or people are going to be UPSET. lololol There were 26 characters in Brawl, Sakurai said, if I'm not mistaken, that there will be AT MOST 50 characters.

EDIT: Your point is kinda of invalid, Squeek. =\ He talks about knowing alot about Melee, not Brawl. =X

PS: WTF is going on with FFR lately?

EDIT2: Sonic vs. Link: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Xevted1Xu-4

EDIT3: More Interesting w/ Super Sonic: Sonic vs. Ike: http://youtube.com/watch?v=D533pueDHLc

lol omg. The game looks awsome. Sonic looks like a weak tier imo. The game play looked really slow. Maybe because they dont know the characters well

[SuperSonicX]

That was kinda of a slow battle. Not to mention that there were a lot of annoying people who wouldn't just shut up and let the music and sound effects be heard from the game. But overall it was pretty good though. I just wish that I could've saw Link's final smash in action.