Interesting indeed - Page 4

**Moogy** · 12-9-2003, 09:17 PM

There is an infinite amount of nothing in the cosmos. By this logic, we can come to the fact that anything that does exist is so overwhelmed by the nothingness that there is no point in its existence, because any form of it (existence) is obviously is too small to make a difference in anything. From this we can conclude that life is meaningless, along with everything else, including time and space. Moral of the story? Everything is meaningless, don't sweat it. Just live your meaningless lives on your meaningless world in your meaningless solar system inside of your meaningless galaxy that is part of your meaningless universe that is part of the cosmos, which are meaningless.

You can tell I'm going to take philosophy, can't you?

Lupin_the_3rd · 12-9-2003, 09:23 PM

precisely, and (without breaching religious beliefs) you might as well do whatever the hell you want because (if you are not religious) when you die, you will remember nothing, you will be in a state of nothingness, though you won't be conscious (in the mind) so everything will suddenly end. For this reason I am religious...what would you rather have to be your end? seriously...

i could get more into religious stuff, but I don't want to offend anyone, but I will say this, if there is a God, how do we know for sure that our lives are meaningless, he could have set everything up so as to seem he doesn't exist. What proof have you that he does, or doesn't exist? Ok i'll stop there

jewpinthethird · 12-9-2003, 09:24 PM

Taking Philosophy is meaningless.

**Cenright** · 12-9-2003, 09:26 PM

Sounds like AP Microeconomics in perfect competition Moogy. Each firm is insignificant to the big picture. No one could ever make a change to the rest.

It is off topic, but it is neat to see that the same theory can be altered to be used for something completely different. Humans have a habit and they almost never change it do they. Then change becomes a habit somehow and then it keeps changing. People always seem to follow the norm without even knowing it.

Lupin_the_3rd · 12-9-2003, 09:31 PM

oh yeah, another thing to think about that has been on my mind:

you know what would be really funny? If Earth was an "atom" or "molecule" that made up something that belonged to a bigger world, and other galaxies were just like other "molecules" for example...It seems to make sense to me though, objects around us are built up of like 99% nothing ( i can't remember the exact percent) which would describe space and planets (99% space 1% matter) confusing I know...but maybe we just haven't had a broad enough perspective

Brainmaster07 · 12-9-2003, 09:44 PM

o_O, unless our school has been teaching us wrong, the universe is NOT infinate, so therefor practically nothing in this topic can be true...

what ever happened to that whole expanding and colapsing of the universe? the space is finite, but the amount of times it does it isn't. But then again, if the universe is finite, what's beyond it o_O?

**87x** · 12-9-2003, 09:52 PM

hm.. i mad i missed all the action on this thread.. but i would still ilke to say something... space can NOT be infinate.. think about it.. a mass explosion caused the universe to happen (the big bang), if the explosion made the universe then the whent he explosion stopped then the amount of spcae it created stopped.. unless the Big bang was still happening right now.. still exploding and making more space, then space must have an end.. Even if you traveld at 5X the speed of light for an entire life time and never found the end.. it has to have one.. and since it IS a cycle for the big bang.. that means everything gets pulled back to the center again, then that is evidence that space isn't infinate.. you cant pull an infinate amount of anything to a center point.. So space cant be infinate..

**Cenright** · 12-9-2003, 09:52 PM

There are 2 kinds of theories. Open universes and Closed universes. You are thinking of the closed one.

Anticrombie0909 · 12-9-2003, 09:57 PM

Well I learned that the Universe (this is speaking strictly theoretically, mind you) is like one giant, inverted planet where everyone lives on the inside. While the Universe itself doesn't move, everything inside it does.

jewpinthethird · 12-9-2003, 09:58 PM

Did anyone read A Wind in the Door, the second book in the A Wrinkle in Time series? It states that even the most insignificant organism can affect the whole cosmos in a crazy chain reaction. It the story, the child (who is supposedly the savior) has a disease in which his mitochandria is destroyed this making the child extremely weak. If he died, the world would die, if the world died, the solar system, if the solar system, the galaxy etc. Now, think, if we nuke the hell out of the world, and destroy, we might throw the solar system out of whack. All the planets are an exact amount from each other (except for Pluto). It is pretty crazy how it all works.

The fact that space might be finite is to great an idea to full comprehend. What is beyond that? UGGHGHGG....MY BRAIN. And the idea that the universe is infinite just seems more logical. UGH. I have so many ideas that I just cannot put into words.

There are three theories.

The universe expands, reaches a point, retracts. The process starts over.

The universe expands, runs out of matter, dissipates.

The universe expands, reaches a point, and stays as is.

**Cenright** · 12-9-2003, 10:01 PM

That is the closed form Anti.

There are a few theories to that also. Twists on the edge of the universe that would put you on the other side. It is too hard to explain in words. You need visuals and everything.

If you just believed that the universe has an end, it would be just like old sailors that felt if they went to far they would fall off the edge of the earth.

Jewpin:
I explained that sort of as a side topic, but I didn't put any tags on it. Thanks for making it WAY more clear.

jewpinthethird · 12-9-2003, 11:22 PM

I wish the human mind wasnt so primitive.

Tasuke · 12-9-2003, 11:27 PM

Even if the universe is constantly expanding, would there, could there be a exact center of the universe?

Because if the universe is ever expanding does it all go and progress at the same time in all directions?
or does it grow out at uneven spurts constantly changing the universe as we know it making new planets, and stars every second.

Cen: If a tree falls in the middle of thye forest and now bodys around, it does because all vibration causes sound. such as: vocal chords, tapping on a desk, ringing a bell. It does. I learned that kind of stuff in the first grade but never really thoiught about it that way. What if there's a video-camera in the middle of a forest and you leave it watching a tree that you know is gonna fal down. Nobody is around, but the video-camera tapin' the tree falling and causing sound.

Semi-relative question: If a tree falls on a mime in the middle of a forest and noones around to hear, does anyone really care???

**Cenright** · 12-9-2003, 11:47 PM

Yes. the center would be the Big bang (which started the expansion).

Tasuke · 12-10-2003, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cenright

Yes. the center would be the Big bang (which started the expansion).

But, that would be only if the universe expanded together and in the same direction all in the same time.

but how do we know that the universe grows out in even areas instead of giant spurts.

**Cenright** · 12-10-2003, 12:09 AM

We don't, but all the vectors of all the big bang debris vector away from THAT spot. It makes it the RELATIVE center; not the ABSOLUTE center.

jewpinthethird · 12-10-2003, 12:46 AM

To look into space is to look back in time since it takes millions of years for light to travel across the cosmos before it reaches Earth. Therefore, if you have a strong enough telescope, and you aimed it in the right position, you can see the early universe (I learned about that last year). Although it is still a theory, it makes since. But it is still way over my head.

As Earth keeps being pushed further and further in the ever expanding universe, it's speed is ever increasing while the center of the universe stays the same, does that make all that which is near the center of the universe older? As stated in another thread "as speed increases, time too increases".

And what if the universe keeped expanding to the point in which our solar system begins to travel at the speed of light. What then?

Brainmaster07 · 12-10-2003, 12:51 AM

So if we had a powerful enough microscope we could see the big bang in it's begginings...

Bah! that's so annoying, you look out at the sky, but you're not looking at 'todays' sky, you could be focusing on a spot 1,000 years ago, or a 1,000,000. So you could be looking at something, that in reality isn't there, BUT YOU STILL SEE IT! AAAAHHHHHHHH.

**Cenright** · 12-10-2003, 12:51 AM

Yes. You would see a point in time that happened a few million years ago for some galaxies. Some don't even exist any more, but the absence of light wont hit us for another few million years. We are watching the past.

Our own sun could go out and we would not know it for 8 MINUTES.

jewpinthethird · 12-10-2003, 12:55 AM

I was just about to mention the whole sun dying. Although, if the sun were to "die" you would know before those 8 mintues because of the sudden lack of gravitational pull, Earth would be send spiraling off into space like a sling shot. Not to mention the extremely large heat discharge that would scorn half the Earth.

12-9-2003, 09:17 PM	#61
Moogy 嗚呼 Join Date: Aug 2003 Age: 34 Posts: 10,303	There is an infinite amount of nothing in the cosmos. By this logic, we can come to the fact that anything that does exist is so overwhelmed by the nothingness that there is no point in its existence, because any form of it (existence) is obviously is too small to make a difference in anything. From this we can conclude that life is meaningless, along with everything else, including time and space. Moral of the story? Everything is meaningless, don't sweat it. Just live your meaningless lives on your meaningless world in your meaningless solar system inside of your meaningless galaxy that is part of your meaningless universe that is part of the cosmos, which are meaningless. You can tell I'm going to take philosophy, can't you? __________________ Plz visit my blog ^^^ vintage signature from like 2006 preserved

12-9-2003, 09:26 PM	#64
Cenright You thought I was a GUY?! Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Beaumont (A town with 25 times fewer people than this site) Age: 37 Posts: 3,139	Sounds like AP Microeconomics in perfect competition Moogy. Each firm is insignificant to the big picture. No one could ever make a change to the rest. It is off topic, but it is neat to see that the same theory can be altered to be used for something completely different. Humans have a habit and they almost never change it do they. Then change becomes a habit somehow and then it keeps changing. People always seem to follow the norm without even knowing it. __________________ http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...Cube_in_55.mpg

12-9-2003, 09:44 PM	#66
Brainmaster07 FFR Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: My house Posts: 2,891	o_O, unless our school has been teaching us wrong, the universe is NOT infinate, so therefor practically nothing in this topic can be true... what ever happened to that whole expanding and colapsing of the universe? the space is finite, but the amount of times it does it isn't. But then again, if the universe is finite, what's beyond it o_O? __________________

12-9-2003, 09:52 PM	#67
87x Retired Staff Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: VA Age: 38 Posts: 4,379	hm.. i mad i missed all the action on this thread.. but i would still ilke to say something... space can NOT be infinate.. think about it.. a mass explosion caused the universe to happen (the big bang), if the explosion made the universe then the whent he explosion stopped then the amount of spcae it created stopped.. unless the Big bang was still happening right now.. still exploding and making more space, then space must have an end.. Even if you traveld at 5X the speed of light for an entire life time and never found the end.. it has to have one.. and since it IS a cycle for the big bang.. that means everything gets pulled back to the center again, then that is evidence that space isn't infinate.. you cant pull an infinate amount of anything to a center point.. So space cant be infinate.. __________________ RAVEnHEXa: Lip ring is because I want to be a professional piercer. 87x: more like.. professional goth.

12-9-2003, 09:52 PM	#68
Cenright You thought I was a GUY?! Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Beaumont (A town with 25 times fewer people than this site) Age: 37 Posts: 3,139	There are 2 kinds of theories. Open universes and Closed universes. You are thinking of the closed one. __________________ http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...Cube_in_55.mpg

12-9-2003, 09:23 PM	#62
Lupin_the_3rd FFR Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 2,665	precisely, and (without breaching religious beliefs) you might as well do whatever the hell you want because (if you are not religious) when you die, you will remember nothing, you will be in a state of nothingness, though you won't be conscious (in the mind) so everything will suddenly end. For this reason I am religious...what would you rather have to be your end? seriously... i could get more into religious stuff, but I don't want to offend anyone, but I will say this, if there is a God, how do we know for sure that our lives are meaningless, he could have set everything up so as to seem he doesn't exist. What proof have you that he does, or doesn't exist? Ok i'll stop there

12-9-2003, 09:24 PM	#63
jewpinthethird (The Fat's Sabobah) Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Palm Springs, California Posts: 11,711	Taking Philosophy is meaningless.

12-9-2003, 09:31 PM	#65
Lupin_the_3rd FFR Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 2,665	oh yeah, another thing to think about that has been on my mind: you know what would be really funny? If Earth was an "atom" or "molecule" that made up something that belonged to a bigger world, and other galaxies were just like other "molecules" for example...It seems to make sense to me though, objects around us are built up of like 99% nothing ( i can't remember the exact percent) which would describe space and planets (99% space 1% matter) confusing I know...but maybe we just haven't had a broad enough perspective

12-9-2003, 09:57 PM	#69
Anticrombie0909 FFR Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4,683	Well I learned that the Universe (this is speaking strictly theoretically, mind you) is like one giant, inverted planet where everyone lives on the inside. While the Universe itself doesn't move, everything inside it does.

12-9-2003, 09:58 PM	#70
jewpinthethird (The Fat's Sabobah) Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Palm Springs, California Posts: 11,711	Did anyone read A Wind in the Door, the second book in the A Wrinkle in Time series? It states that even the most insignificant organism can affect the whole cosmos in a crazy chain reaction. It the story, the child (who is supposedly the savior) has a disease in which his mitochandria is destroyed this making the child extremely weak. If he died, the world would die, if the world died, the solar system, if the solar system, the galaxy etc. Now, think, if we nuke the hell out of the world, and destroy, we might throw the solar system out of whack. All the planets are an exact amount from each other (except for Pluto). It is pretty crazy how it all works. The fact that space might be finite is to great an idea to full comprehend. What is beyond that? UGGHGHGG....MY BRAIN. And the idea that the universe is infinite just seems more logical. UGH. I have so many ideas that I just cannot put into words. There are three theories. The universe expands, reaches a point, retracts. The process starts over. The universe expands, runs out of matter, dissipates. The universe expands, reaches a point, and stays as is.

12-9-2003, 10:01 PM	#71
Cenright You thought I was a GUY?! Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Beaumont (A town with 25 times fewer people than this site) Age: 37 Posts: 3,139	That is the closed form Anti. There are a few theories to that also. Twists on the edge of the universe that would put you on the other side. It is too hard to explain in words. You need visuals and everything. If you just believed that the universe has an end, it would be just like old sailors that felt if they went to far they would fall off the edge of the earth. Jewpin: I explained that sort of as a side topic, but I didn't put any tags on it. Thanks for making it WAY more clear. __________________ http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...Cube_in_55.mpg

12-9-2003, 11:22 PM	#72
jewpinthethird (The Fat's Sabobah) Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Palm Springs, California Posts: 11,711	I wish the human mind wasnt so primitive.

12-9-2003, 11:27 PM	#73
Tasuke FFR Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: where ever you aren't Age: 33 Posts: 1,671	Even if the universe is constantly expanding, would there, could there be a exact center of the universe? Because if the universe is ever expanding does it all go and progress at the same time in all directions? or does it grow out at uneven spurts constantly changing the universe as we know it making new planets, and stars every second. Cen: If a tree falls in the middle of thye forest and now bodys around, it does because all vibration causes sound. such as: vocal chords, tapping on a desk, ringing a bell. It does. I learned that kind of stuff in the first grade but never really thoiught about it that way. What if there's a video-camera in the middle of a forest and you leave it watching a tree that you know is gonna fal down. Nobody is around, but the video-camera tapin' the tree falling and causing sound. Semi-relative question: If a tree falls on a mime in the middle of a forest and noones around to hear, does anyone really care??? __________________

12-9-2003, 11:47 PM	#74
Cenright You thought I was a GUY?! Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Beaumont (A town with 25 times fewer people than this site) Age: 37 Posts: 3,139	Yes. the center would be the Big bang (which started the expansion). __________________ http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...Cube_in_55.mpg

12-10-2003, 12:09 AM	#76
Cenright You thought I was a GUY?! Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Beaumont (A town with 25 times fewer people than this site) Age: 37 Posts: 3,139	We don't, but all the vectors of all the big bang debris vector away from THAT spot. It makes it the RELATIVE center; not the ABSOLUTE center. __________________ http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...Cube_in_55.mpg

12-10-2003, 12:46 AM	#77
jewpinthethird (The Fat's Sabobah) Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Palm Springs, California Posts: 11,711	To look into space is to look back in time since it takes millions of years for light to travel across the cosmos before it reaches Earth. Therefore, if you have a strong enough telescope, and you aimed it in the right position, you can see the early universe (I learned about that last year). Although it is still a theory, it makes since. But it is still way over my head. As Earth keeps being pushed further and further in the ever expanding universe, it's speed is ever increasing while the center of the universe stays the same, does that make all that which is near the center of the universe older? As stated in another thread "as speed increases, time too increases". And what if the universe keeped expanding to the point in which our solar system begins to travel at the speed of light. What then?

12-10-2003, 12:51 AM	#78
Brainmaster07 FFR Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: My house Posts: 2,891	So if we had a powerful enough microscope we could see the big bang in it's begginings... Bah! that's so annoying, you look out at the sky, but you're not looking at 'todays' sky, you could be focusing on a spot 1,000 years ago, or a 1,000,000. So you could be looking at something, that in reality isn't there, BUT YOU STILL SEE IT! AAAAHHHHHHHH. __________________

12-10-2003, 12:55 AM	#80
jewpinthethird (The Fat's Sabobah) Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Palm Springs, California Posts: 11,711	I was just about to mention the whole sun dying. Although, if the sun were to "die" you would know before those 8 mintues because of the sudden lack of gravitational pull, Earth would be send spiraling off into space like a sling shot. Not to mention the extremely large heat discharge that would scorn half the Earth.

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