04-28-2009, 04:23 PM | #61 | |
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Re: What's with the hostility towards Christians?
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And here's a beautiful example of what I was saying about lowering IQ. You're saying that when presented with knowledge, with facts - facts are NOT SUBJECTIVE, as you are making them out to be - you shrug them off as beliefs and say that your beliefs are different. When you are rejecting truth in favour of an opinion, you are being unintelligent, and your thinking needs to be repaired.
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04-28-2009, 04:24 PM | #62 | |
The Chill Keeper
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Re: What's with the hostility towards Christians?
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04-28-2009, 04:27 PM | #63 |
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Re: What's with the hostility towards Christians?
It isn't so much a threat of eternal torture that gets you to into Christianity. At least it shouldn't be. Really, if you think about it, what is there to lose anyway? If we as Christians are wrong, then there is nothing more, and we all just pass off. But if we are right, seriously, that means eternity for lots of people in Hell. And people can say 'eh, my friends will all be there', but the truth of the matter is that Hell is not a fun place. There will be no friends. It is ETERNAL torture and condemnation. Not cool stuff.
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04-28-2009, 04:31 PM | #64 |
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Re: What's with the hostility towards Christians?
conditioning your mind to believe in a christian god as an insurance policy against an undesirable afterlife is a pretty cool idea.
more like if you are wrong and any one of dozens of other religions (and infinite noninstitutionalized possibilities) is correct you will suffer whatever fate theirs has in store for you. in essence you are taking pride in your 'educated guess' in selecting a deity to worship
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04-28-2009, 04:33 PM | #65 | |
The Chill Keeper
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Re: What's with the hostility towards Christians?
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I can appreciate this point of view, although I disagree with it. This goes along with the idea that people who do good things get into heaven. While, in all actuality, Christianity based on the bible is more about a relationship with the lord than doing good things. Notice, his chosen people were those that took the time to develop a relationship with him, and through that wanted to please him. Thus, they did "good" things in order to please him. At the time, there were millions of people doing good things but did not believe what he claimed and thus went to hell. |
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04-28-2009, 04:38 PM | #66 | |||
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Re: What's with the hostility towards Christians?
@EVERYONE: LEAVE THE VALIDITY OF EVOLUTION OUT OF THIS THREAD
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Take #2 for example. For all we know, all the records of social ills, murder, and general bad people could have come entirely from the non-Christian population of those "Christian heavy" areas. The information you have given us just doesn't point, in any way, to the claim that Christians have a higher tendency of being a bad person. Using #1 is closer, but would still be a stretch to draw that conclusion. Quote:
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I'm not trying to argue any particular point here; I'm just trying to keep you intellectually honest. --Guido http://andy.mikee385.com |
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04-28-2009, 04:58 PM | #67 | ||
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Re: What's with the hostility towards Christians?
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http://www.holysmoke.org/icr-pri.htm While only 78% of the US population is Christian, 83% of inmates in prison are Christian. Also, despite the US being approximately 8-16% atheist, they only make up 0.21% of all US inmates! And the non-religious are supposedly the ones in need of moral guidance?
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04-28-2009, 05:13 PM | #68 |
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Re: What's with the hostility towards Christians?
from which you can draw myriad correlations and absolutely zero concrete evidence indicating belief in christianity to be a causative factor in crime nor refuting the postulation that christian exposure and/or upbringing has the potential to be a powerful mean of instilling strong morals
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04-28-2009, 05:15 PM | #69 | ||
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Re: What's with the hostility towards Christians?
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That link (while better evidence than before, so thank you) shows that mere affiliation with a religion may not instill strongly enough the morals to stay out of jail. EDIT: ninja'd by gnr. Also well said there. --Guido http://andy.mikee385.com |
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04-28-2009, 05:32 PM | #70 |
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Re: What's with the hostility towards Christians?
People don't like christianity because in the eyes of the rational populace it's frankly retarded. Plus it's the driving force behind a lot of bigotry and the conservative right christian movement which practically anyone with a brain hates.
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04-28-2009, 06:09 PM | #71 | |||
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Re: What's with the hostility towards Christians?
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What kind of idiot doesn't know murder is wrong? We as a society knew murder was wrong long before religion, especially long before Christianity. But these same people get this piece of paper in front of them asking for their vote on a piece of scientific research that will save billions of lives, and they say 'nay' because their religion says it's wrong. Quote:
Scientists don't have to believe in something we know to be true. We've tested it. We know it's true. This is not a faith-based initiative. Someone posited a hypothesis, a bunch of people tested it, and now we know it's the truth. The old Pope (JP2) even said it was credible! Religion must believe in something, because there's no proof in religion whatsoever. Trying to prove anything from the Bible as truthful is just meaningless. There was no science in those days. Modern science began so long after Christianity got underway. So, you're literally forced to take everything the Bible says as truth based on faith. You have no hope of proving any of it to be true. Here's the problem you and many other Christians have with science: you simply don't understand science. There is no debate among scientists as to whether evolution happened or not. IT DID. WE KNOW IT DID. It's called a theory because that's what scientists call things that are known to be true but are not 100% testable. We know gravity is true, but it's still a theory. We know the Earth revolves around the Sun, but it's still a theory. Science is about creating a model so that anyone can test your hypothesis and confirm it for themselves to be true. When we did this and thousands of scientists confirmed it to be true, it became more than a hypothesis. It became scientific theory--one step short of fact because it is not a fully testable series of events. Compare this rigorous testing and multiple recorded sources of confirmation to "god did it", and you'll see why I'm a little peeved that you try to discredit science. To tie this in to the OP so guido doesn't get mad at me: this is one of the reasons I have hostility toward christians. Attempting to overthrow science. I know you don't, guido, and I'm not about to say that religion's goal is to overthrow science, but these people who discredit science have a way of getting the attention of governors, senators, and congresspeople, and swaying their opinions away from allowing scientific research to be done. Hell, look at Cobb County! The religious right convinced the school board that religion was a teachable science! That's just preposterous. Quote:
Do you follow people in New York who claim they can hear God? I wasn't talking about the 12 disciples either. I'm talking about everyone in the Bible. They all hear God. God never teleports himself down to them to talk face to face. God talks through burning shubbery and things like that. My point is simple. People today claiming to hear God? They're insane. That mother who stoned her two children to death because God told her to? We filed her as clinically insane. But two thousand years ago, those people are PROPHETS! They're doing God's work! Last edited by Squeek; 04-28-2009 at 06:59 PM.. |
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04-28-2009, 07:23 PM | #72 |
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Re: What's with the hostility towards Christians?
Not true. It's almost always incorrect to say that a particular group of people all have a particular characteristic, but it is always possible to perform a statistical analysis on different groups to find out which group has a higher *prevalence* of a particular characteristic.
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04-28-2009, 08:02 PM | #73 |
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Re: What's with the hostility towards Christians?
Why do people concentrate on religion anyway? Christianity is all about what happened 2000 years ago when a zombie actually existed. The only reason Christians love him so much is cause they didn't have shotguns back in that era. (joking)
In all seriousness Christians don't pay attention to their current life or the present. The thing they mainly care about is God, Jesus, and their own after life. They wish, hope, and "pray" that they don't get sent to Hell when, if you think about it, was never proven. For those who care, I'm not trying to hate on anybody, that's just my own opinion. |
04-28-2009, 08:28 PM | #74 | |
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Re: What's with the hostility towards Christians?
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What I do want to say in response to your comment about Hell not being proven is that while this is true, not a whole lot in the Bible or the Christian faith can be proven, outside of historical sites and other things, the Christian faith is just that, Faith. Faith that one day God will return and renew this earth and that there is a heaven and hell. Which is also the reason why I think a lot of people can't deal with being in a religion that requires you to rely so much on the unproven when we have everyone around us like at school telling us to base our opinions on FACTS.
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04-28-2009, 08:54 PM | #75 | |||||||||||
The Chill Keeper
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Re: What's with the hostility towards Christians?
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My point is this. We only "know" and say things are fact based on the limited knowledge we have. Christianity was presented and MILLIONS of people tested it and found it to be true. So can we also say we know that is the truth? Quote:
"evidence sufficient to establish a thing as true, or to produce belief in its truth." So, enough evidence has obviously been provided to produce belief in its truth over and over and over again. So how can you go about saying we have no hope of proving any of it to be true when it has already been proved true to millions according to the definition of proof itself? Quote:
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And my point was more in this respect anyway. If some random suicidal Joe Shmoe says he is a Christian, then kills himself, he gets added as a suicidal Christian. A simple title can be claimed and associated with him, but any sane Christian would tell you he most likely was not an actual Christian, just claimed the title. Last edited by funmonkey54; 04-28-2009 at 08:59 PM.. |
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04-28-2009, 09:22 PM | #76 |
FFR Veteran
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Re: What's with the hostility towards Christians?
People are hostile towards Christians because people, deep down inside, hate diversity. They cannot handle an opposing opinion, and therefore go on a needless defense. That is how this world has been functioning for the past 500 or so years.
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04-28-2009, 09:41 PM | #77 | |
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Re: What's with the hostility towards Christians?
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what you are doing is committing the fallacy of equating (using scientific diction far outside its realm of meaningful application) the rational legitimacy of an opinion supported by consensus within the realm of its own group of followers to that of one substantiated by hard physical evidence that is entirely devoid of subjectivity or bias. when a scientist attempts to answer a question he employs the scientific method to best reach a conclusion not founded on his own predisposition toward one set of beliefs, but on a desire to obtain scientific truth. such is the case with a theory like evolution; you can go with your gut feeling that it just certainly must be wrong (i mean c'mon....surely we didn't come from monkeys!!), but don't try to pass that off as a legitimate counterargument in intelligent debate
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04-28-2009, 10:32 PM | #78 | |||||
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Re: What's with the hostility towards Christians?
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Ok, so the Great Flood happened, despite zero archeological evidence of it. There was a big flood somewhere in the world at that time, but nobody named Noah is recorded in history. The man who commandeered a ship to transport some goods downriver during this flood did not bring two of every species of the millions of species of animals on the planet and then accurately redistribute them to every country on the planet. There's no archeological evidence of people wandering the desert for 40 years. There's no historical evidence that the Pharaoh lost to Moses's reasoning and that there was a mass exodus of Jews from Egypt. These events DID NOT HAPPEN. There is little to no scientific or historical accuracy in the Bible. Stop trying to prove it. It's not there. Just because you and several millions of people believe it, YOU AREN'T SCIENTISTS! What you believe is irrelevant in the face of facts! I have the feeling you're going to reply to this with resentment and claim that I put too much "faith" in scientists, but that's because historians and scientists have a system that allows EVERYBODY to discredit them! Want to prove that water is not H20? You can! You won't, but you can try! Likewise, you CAN try to disprove Evolution. You won't be able to, but you can try! Thousands of other Christians have tried, and they've all failed. Quote:
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04-28-2009, 11:03 PM | #79 |
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Re: What's with the hostility towards Christians?
The only reason I look down upon them is because they
1. Believe in someone that never existed 2. Some (not all are like this) base their life off of christianity, once again, something that is not real, it did not happen, etc. 3. Think less of others because they are not christian i.e. my ex's father disowned his own daughter because she married into a different religion... that's just going too far.
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04-28-2009, 11:33 PM | #80 |
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Re: What's with the hostility towards Christians?
The problem is that many theists adhere too piously to sacred writ, resulting in beliefs that are incompatible with scientific findings. The presence of evolution is quite apparent (and again, I say that as a theist); we have more than enough evidence to support such a conclusion. Thus, rather than trying to deny (probable) fact established by empirical method, a devoted believer should acknowledge evolution and make the appropriate accommodations by reassessing his/her central ideologies. This aspect of adaptability should be applied universally to the entire extent of a person's religious belief. However, here a conflict stems from an absence of religious autonomy. In other words, because theological introspection entails questioning and possibly altering belief, religious establishments often perceive it as a threat to their institutionalized dogmas, and they denounce it accordingly. For them, religious belief is absolute, and concession to other possibilities is not an option. This principle is in turn communicated to followers. As a result, many theists are largely unversed in the historical reasoning that forms the foundation of theology. If you were to ask such people to defend their belief in a deity by utilizing rational thought, most of them would probably fall back upon circular logic, rather than employing legitimate devices such as Aquinas' cosmological argument or Paley's teleological analogy. The implication is clear - "irrational" theists aren't necessarily uneducated - instead, they are simply uninformed.
P.S. - I know I don't represent the majority of theists, but I respect all beliefs, so long as they are supported by sound reasoning and grounded by personal investment. In fact, one of my very good friends is the president of an atheist/agnostic student organization. We get along just fine. 8) |
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