D7 Should be split into two different groups

[One Winged Angel]

who's D6 with 60 FGOs?

[Poison-]

Originally Posted by SK8R43

I think D6 should be split too, i mean come on. Theres people in there with 60+fgo aaas and people in there with 0-2... thats WAY more of a gap than D7 imo

no

[TC_Halogen]

can I just quote everyone thinking that there should be (more) divisional splitting and tell them that FFR is literally the only game that uses more than two "divisions" with regard to skill in competition

[Untimely Friction]

D1-D4 Bracket D5-D8 Bracket. I in D5 can beat D7's occasionally, but only if it's turbo! BUT IT'S AN EXISTING FRINGE CASE! D1's vs D4's can't always be a 100% for the d4, as was the issue guest arose, and in the end you'd be handling 2 nearly automated brackets with the same population as the current structure meaning it shouldnt be significantly harder to manage? /tired thoughts on the matter

[DarkManticoreX2]

The person who wins D1 and D2 should have probably been placed in D4 or D5 anyway.

Thats usually the problem I have with the big tourneys

[One Winged Angel]

mina's post early on in this thread should've ended all discussion on divisions and we should just revert to having everyone in one big group for tourneys yes ok cool great

[___________]

^petition to have the 10th organized that way, please

[One Winged Angel]

It won't happen, especially given the cash prizes on the line this time around through user donations. Guaranteed a good handful of users wouldn't have donated if they knew the tourney was going to be structured like that, and I doubt the majority of players in any non-D7 division would want something like this to happen. Most players sign up for these tourneys with hopes of trying to win, and a massive restructuring like that after having multiple divisions all these years wouldn't go over well at all. Even though players winning any non-D7 division are winning because their skill level prior to the start of the tourney didn't exceed some arbitrary and subjective cap which would've bumped them up to the next highest division, that doesn't matter to them because they're still winning something, and winning is cooler than losing.

tl;dr it should be that way but it won't happen for a long time, if not ever...although you'd be able to gauge much more accurately where you stand in terms of ranking against all active players, plus sandbagging wouldn't be an issue

[MinaciousGrace]

i am penis

[Sorie]

One division. When there's 256 players left you do some spontaneous contest and throw prizes away and move into bracket-elimination. Everyone who participated get seeded as a rank at the end so they can try on next Official Tournament to beat it or go for the "top 256". Just a random idea with random numbers.

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by DarkManticoreX2

The person who wins D1 and D2 should have probably been placed in D4 or D5 anyway.

Thats usually the problem I have with the big tourneys

This is actually not true, though.

In fact, a great example of this was the 7th official tournament -- KrazyKitsune was in D1 and had to play many of the songs a respectable number of times; in fact, I created seven different isolation files specifically for him on the semi-final round (Gargoyle). Additionally, he has some respectably high play attempts on songs that he had to face:

- Round 8: Freak - 186 recorded plays (he took second place with 14-0-0-3)
- Round 7: Gargoyle - 147 recorded plays (barely made the cutoff for the next round at 3rd place with 28-5-0-22)
- Round 6: Need You - 192 recorded plays (made the cutoff which was AAA or die @_@)
- Round 5: Find a Pet - 547 recorded plays; presumably slightly less given that the dashboard says 2g but his level ranks indicate AAA -- this round is REALLY funny because the three finalists that made round 8 were actually the three worst passing scores to get to round 6, all with 2g

additionally - his round 2 score was 10g, despite AAAing round 3

D1 always has the highest rate of improvement out of other players because the difficulty increases -very- fast. The ones that win are the ones that play the hardest because they realize that they need to increase their skill by the end of the tournament to stand any sort of chance, which I guess is why people always assume that those players were generally misplaced. By the end of the tournament, a D1 winner is likely capable of being minimally D3 in the next tournament.

[DarkManticoreX2]

Don't get me wrong, I like the way the official tourneys run and everything.

I have problems with the lower levels because I worry that some of the players don't take the game seriously untill they get to an official tournament. If over the course of 8 weeks you can boost into D3/D4 from D1, I believe you have had the ability to succeed at those levels the entire time. The official tourney was just the kick in the pants they needed to actually try.

I feel the same way about people who AAA the last round of the tourney.

It's not cheating, and it's not misplacement at the time of measuring. It's a problem that comes from a bad levelranks sample.

[TC_Halogen]

You have a good point; better reason to change the tournament structure!

[Untimely Friction]

Originally Posted by DarkManticoreX2

It's not cheating, and it's not misplacement at the time of measuring. It's a problem that comes from a bad levelranks sample.

I'd love to see you comb over so many people, and do the work to figure out whos got alts, what the alts are, and if those alts in any way are even a valid representation of skill, plus sandbagging, it's all a bit of a mess and I don't think without exact tight guidelines for divisions, that this will ever NOT be an issue. It's just a reality I feel we need to accept.

Edit: Not sure on the game managers views, I could possibly not be looking into it enough but Unless your last post is sarcastic AJ I smell some.... untimely friction 8)

[DarkManticoreX2]

Originally Posted by Untimely Friction

I'd love to see you comb over so many people, and do the work to figure out whos got alts, what the alts are, and if those alts in any way are even a valid representation of skill, plus sandbagging, it's all a bit of a mess and I don't think without exact tight guidelines for divisions, that this will ever NOT be an issue. It's just a reality I feel we need to accept.

Edit: Not sure on the game managers views, I could possibly not be looking into it enough but Unless your last post is sarcastic AJ I smell some.... untimely friction 8)

Not sure why you're being combative. I know a lot of time and effort goes into placing people to get them into the best division for their skill level. There was no criticisim of placement.

If anything, there was criticisim of lazy players! The fact that you agree that it'll always be an issue is my point. It doesn't matter how well the placement goes if the data that's being relied on isn't a true representation of a player's current maximum potential.

[Untimely Friction]

Originally Posted by DarkManticoreX2

Not sure why you're being combative. I know a lot of time and effort goes into placing people to get them into the best division for their skill level. There was no critisizim of placement.

If anything, there was critisizim of lazy players!

It is certainly a good criticism on lazy players and I feel going soon into d6 that I'm one of those lazy people, I have like 10 AAAs in 8 years, idk how anyone ever places me. I also have alts, which are now outdated in terms of scores, but for assurance that may or may not have had to be checked, which is a nightmare for hosts. These are just (scattered) thoughts, I like thinking out loud I guess...

[TC_Halogen]

There was no sarcasm intended -- I very firmly believe that the divisional system is useless and have stated my opinion on it for a long time. However, I'm not going to change something that FFR has generally been familiar with, at least for the 10th official tournament.

People are way too complacent in a divisional system -- honestly:

Originally Posted by MinaciousGrace

since when has the meaning of tournament shifted from "let us find out who is the best" to "let us find out who is the best within an infinite and arbitrary set of population subsets the ultimate extension of which is to give everyone a trophy and a pat on the back and tell them they are a winner just by playing the game"

as harsh as that post is, I agree with this 100%.

[Coolboyrulez0]

to push it further it goes with the american school system mentality of "everyone's a winner" (also partially in sports, you just have "2nd winner" or something like this) which is utterly retarded and encourages destructive traits / patterns of thought etc


but hey its just fucking arrows tho i think my discussion is for another topic

[DarkManticoreX2]

Coolboyrulez0: villain

[lurker]

all adding divisions has ever done is created more incentive to avoid becoming visibly good at this game (not that you'd ever want to anyway)