TWG CXX: Villains United

[TWG Jafar]

Originally Posted by TWG Cruella De Vil

The reality is Hans did a piss poor job defending himself and his play was very wolfy. Some people noted his continued votes throughout the phase indicated wolves on the train but they did so mid phase and there was more than a decent enough push elsewhere to nullify that argument for those who stayed on the train. I checked in, saw those things, and was satisfied with him dying. I had moments of reservation about it but I thought his death was the optimal choice.

I think if someone is pressing you ignoring part of their arguments, some of their questions, and generally acting disinterested in their reasoning on the basis that you are villa is bad play because they don't know that you are villa. It is not wolfy to defend yourself and to articulate why you are doing what you are doing and to attempt to answer all questions asked of you. People complain about white noise but to the one asking your anwsers are certainly not white noise. Had he given a shit enough to respond to me he probably would have survived as I would have moved to someone else.

I take full responsibility for this failed lynch but also put some onus on Hans for posting a lot but not trying to play. Obviously as we go forward analyzing the lynch is important (and I am not going to do that right now) but I just don't want a narrow minded shit-show off a day one lynch that made sense to me until the flip.

I hate hate hate hate hate this post.

This feels like V's wolf apology post from last game.

Blaming Hans for not defending himself - Hans did defend himself, and rather well for D1. He split his time between defense and he did his hero searching research and he added to general conversation. All of that was pro Villian.

Cruella, you take full responsibility for that lynch? Just you? what about the 8-9 other people on the wagon? they didn't have anything to do with it?

Like this post actually enraged me when it was posted.

[TWG Hades]

Originally Posted by TWG Syndrome

No

1) How could Auto switching to Hans if Hook flips Hero possibly mean that Auto could be villain? That would mean it's an obvious attempt at a hero save. Auto would not be either in this case. He would be a hero.

A misguided Villain choosing poorly in a KITB situation could result in the same thing. You are only looking at correlation, not causation. Yes, if Hook flips Hero, we need to keep considering Auto (and it definitely makes him look more Heroic) but it is not as conclusive.

2) Hook flipping villain does certainly not clear Auto. What are you thinking a hero would have to gain anyway? All they do is kill villains and they knew who the villains are. Auto could be hero and thinks Hans could be more of a threat. "Sure, let's kill Hans first, and then we can do Hook later since he's pretty much set to be a lynch target today."

If Hook does flip Villain, why would a Hero get in the way of a KITB between two Villains. Any idiot can see that it brings a lot of day two attention at literally zero gain. Why would a Hero bother? Why would a Hero think that a Villain in a KITB situation would even be a threat? If Hook is a Villain, why wouldn't a Hero just let it go to KITB and then take up the "We can do ____ later" stance anyways?

IF Hook is also a Villain, the only thing that happens to a Hero that breaks the KITB is more attention. That is bad for Heroes, which is why a Villain Hook almost completely clears Auto. What Hero purposefully draws that kind of attention on Day Two?

In both quoted cases, Auto is more likely to be a hero, and you are pretty much clearing him no matter what the Hook flip would be. At this point in time, I'm fine with either Hades, Hook, or Auto.

No, if hook flips Hero, it is still likely that Auto could be a Hero, but Hook being a Hero does not automatically confirm it. Hook being a Villain would confirm Auto Villain in my mind.

Again, you need to look at the difference between correlation and causation.

[TWG Syndrome]

Originally Posted by TWG Hades

IF Hook is also a Villain, the only thing that happens to a Hero that breaks the KITB is more attention. That is bad for Heroes, which is why a Villain Hook almost completely clears Auto.

No, because he didn't break the KITB by himself. Hans was practically telling Auto to vote for him, sort of like Charles Claythorne giving up and telling everybody to vote for him when he was actually the doctor. Hook was actually making some sort of posts (rather late though) while Hans still seemed otherwise. Hans was more suspicious near the end and paired with Hans telling Auto to switch...yeah.

Originally Posted by TWG Hades

No, if hook flips Hero, it is still likely that Auto could be a Hero, but Hook being a Hero does not automatically confirm it. Hook being a Villain would confirm Auto Villain in my mind.

Auto and Hook hero is more confirmed in that case than hook and auto villain. You can't honestly tell me otherwise.

Originally Posted by TWG Hades

Again, you need to look at the difference between correlation and causation.

This bullshit lmao

[TWG Hades]

Originally Posted by TWG Syndrome

No, because he didn't break the KITB by himself. Hans was practically telling Auto to vote for him, sort of like Charles Claythorne giving up and telling everybody to vote for him when he was actually the doctor. Hook was actually making some sort of posts (rather late though) while Hans still seemed otherwise. Hans was more suspicious near the end and paired with Hans telling Auto to switch...yeah.

This would be a valid point if Auto hadn't come in at the last minute and said "I'd rather Hans goes." when the game was already at KITB. If Hook is Villain and Auto is Hero why doesn't Auto just sit back at this point, after having voted a page or two earlier and disappeared? Why reappear and post at the last minute when without him it is almost certainly going to KITB?

You are looking at actions and not mindsets. What Hero would interrupt a KITB between two Villains? The fact that Auto interrupted it first with a post that basically stated his intention of switching to Hans, and switched after Hans goaded him is immaterial. If Hook is Villain and Auto is Hero, why wouldn't Auto just let it go to KITB?

Auto and Hook hero is more confirmed in that case than hook and auto villain. You can't honestly tell me otherwise.

The only way you can make this argument is if you believe that it is impossible for a Villain to break a KITB mistakenly, or if you believe that it is a smart move for a Hero to break a KITB between two Villains.

This bullshit lmao

If you only had a brain. Well at least we know what kind of Syndrome your name refers to now.

[TWG Yzma]

Not sure why you felt the need to apologize Cruella
Coupled with the fact that you pushed on Hans and then let the others take the wheel for the lynch... not sure what to think about that

[TWG The Queen]

hey guys, decent kill from wolves, shan looked way villa. kill was away from the hans/hook wagons, lets see what we got here

[TWG The Queen]

Originally Posted by TWG Hades

If you only had a brain. Well at least we know what kind of Syndrome your name refers to now.

[TWG The Queen]

Facilier voted Hades
Gaston voted Jafar
Ursela voted Gaston
Shan Yu voted Yzma
tigger aka Shere Khan didnt vote

heroes dont want to be on the same wagon right? so theres prob a hero here in this group of facilier/gaston/ursela/tigger. ursela is it u

[TWG Cruella De Vil]

Originally Posted by TWG Jafar

Cruella, you take full responsibility for that lynch? Just you? what about the 8-9 other people on the wagon? they didn't have anything to do with it?

I take responsibility for getting him killed because I pushed hard and provided the logic others used.

When that many people are on the lynch and there are only 3 wolves the reality is that he both acted wolfy and someone made a good case.

Hans did defend himself, and rather well for D1. He split his time between defense and he did his hero searching research and he added to general conversation. All of that was pro Villian.

yeah and that's revising history, if you geniunely had that perspective then why didn't you act on it? not acting on that perspective (if it was your belief) is wolfy. the best you said in his defense was that suspicious people were on hans, not that you believed hans was inherently human and why you believed that he was. when you pretend your beliefs and preferences were different in the past after new information is revealed is revising history. keep your head lucid. think clearly.

[TWG Cruella De Vil]

Originally Posted by TWG Yzma

Not sure why you felt the need to apologize Cruella
Coupled with the fact that you pushed on Hans and then let the others take the wheel for the lynch... not sure what to think about that

i didn't apologize i owned what happened because i was genuine in my belief that hans should die until he flipped. i don't want us to turns hans' death into a shitshow.

[TWG The Queen]

there was 0 support for a Darla wagon last time maybe thats a good sign to start there

[TWG Cruella De Vil]

Originally Posted by TWG The Queen

Facilier voted Hades
Gaston voted Jafar
Ursela voted Gaston
Shan Yu voted Yzma
tigger aka Shere Khan didnt vote

heroes dont want to be on the same wagon right? so theres prob a hero here in this group of facilier/gaston/ursela/tigger. ursela is it u

i think this is the best thing brought up today

[TWG Yzma]

The Ursula Gaston vote made sense in context I think, out of all of those maybe Facilier and Gaston would be good to look into if we're going by that theory

Gaston

[TWG Cruella De Vil]

Originally Posted by TWG Hades

This would be a valid point if Auto hadn't come in at the last minute and said "I'd rather Hans goes." when the game was already at KITB. If Hook is Villain and Auto is Hero why doesn't Auto just sit back at this point, after having voted a page or two earlier and disappeared? Why reappear and post at the last minute when without him it is almost certainly going to KITB?

a hero might vote on a villa/villa kitb because they believe one or the other might be blue, or to cast suspicion on someone they want to kill the next day

there's a much broader range of possibilities than narrow little game theory diamonds of decision-making; the more important questions are about Auto's behaviors in context of what he said in the past and what he says in the future and whether or not that decision fits with what his intentions appear to be elsewhere

[TWG Jafar]

Originally Posted by TWG Cruella De Vil

yeah and that's revising history, if you geniunely had that perspective then why didn't you act on it? not acting on that perspective (if it was your belief) is wolfy. the best you said in his defense was that suspicious people were on hans, not that you believed hans was inherently human and why you believed that he was. when you pretend your beliefs and preferences were different in the past after new information is revealed is revising history. keep your head lucid. think clearly.

You should probably go back to the end of the day and re-read my stance and play. You know, during that time you sat in the back and did nothing.

I explained several times why I thought Hans was human, and I was heavily trying to get Hook lynched over Hans. There was no "pretending" that my motives or beliefs were different.

By taking such a stance you make it pretty clear you haven't done anything more then skim over the end of Day 1.

[TWG Yzma]

actually regards to Queen, I think that's a pretty solid lead

normally I'd play the Reverse Psychology card, but considering that's Day 1 and the heroes couldn't have collaborated on such a plan it would be too risky for them to all vote on one of the wagons


Shere Khan, you can't join the CatCrew if you only post gifs btw

[TWG Cruella De Vil]

Originally Posted by TWG Jafar

Like this post actually enraged me when it was posted.

Let's talk about why you got so mad?? Are you in touch with your emotions and can you explain why you got so angry??

I'm genuinely confused by how much you "hate" that post and why it "enraged" you?????

(?????)

(??????????????????????????????????????????????)

[TWG Yzma]

don't edit your posts jafar

[TWG Cruella De Vil]

Originally Posted by TWG Jafar

You should probably go back to the end of the day and re-read my stance and play. You know, during that time you sat in the back and did nothing.

I explained several times why I thought Hans was human, and I was heavily trying to get Hook lynched over Hans. There was no "pretending" that my motives or beliefs were different.

By taking such a stance you make it pretty clear you haven't done anything more then skim over the end of Day 1.

Hi I read through your post history and didn't see anything please quote your defenses of hans TIA

[TWG Cruella De Vil]

and yes i skimmed

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