The Fitness Thread

[Jerry DB]

apparently nobody has the fighting experience I do lol

let me just throw out a decent heavyweight who isn't even super huge, pat berry. He would destroy ANY professional body builder and he isn't even the biggest. I would bet 1,000,000 dollars and I would win. Sure if there is a way bigger guy who is on roids who trains for fighting that might be a different story. I mean c'mon though if you think big and stronger is the best just because they could possibly overpower with zero technique, you probably haven't been paying attention to the last 20 years of mma.

[Reach]

Originally Posted by ssbmchamp

Maybe it was just the wording you used, or the visual I had in my head or even both but I literally burst out laughing when you said "if they do, you lose" lol! I completely agree though, like you said only real way is nuts or face because I don't think world class fighters could ever over power a professional body builder in terms of just brute strength.

Well yeah, I think Ronnie Coleman was what, 330-340 pounds offseason and could bench 600 pounds for reps "lightweight baby!"? Anyone who underestimates how strong that man is simply hasn't had the experience of trying to fight someone of that size.

JerryDB, I'm not an MMA fighter, but I was a national level competitor in Taekwondo for years. Having fought some really big dudes, I think you underestimate the size of someone like Ronnie. We're talking about 100 pounds or more of pure muscle advantage, and in an MMA ring where you can't kick someone in the nuts, there's not going to be too much you could do other than run and potentially get him by the hips and pray to the lord that he goes down before he gets a good grip on you.


And I watch MMA fairly regularly. I don't think there's anyone in even remotely the same class as Ronnie that fights in MMA lol

Obviously top MMA fighters could take down your average bodybuilder though. I'm talking about Ronnie specifically.

The reason I went to 2000 instead of 1500 is because I feared the carbs were too low. When using a 1500 benchmark:

Protein: 150 g
Fats: 75 g
Carbs: 56 g

It might be OK, but I wasn't sure. Didn't want to compensate by putting fats too low as to interfere with organ function or something.\

BTW, the machines in my gym (are any of these better/worth adding to the exercise routine I detailed above?):

shoulder incline bench
bicep curl, tricep pushdown
low row, lat pulldown
leg extension, leg curl

You don't need to worry about organ function. Assuming you are getting your daily micronutrients, and you do not have preexisting health conditions such as diabetes, you are perfectly fine on even less than 1500 calories actually.

I wouldn't try to go lower than 1500 though, because you're going to be so hungry that it's unlikely you could sustain it.

As for those machines: Shoulder incline bench sounds like it could be great, you could swap that for dumbbell press sometimes if you want to try something new. Bicep curls/pushdowns can be traded for dumbbell curls and tricep extensions. Lat pull down machine can trade for dumbbell rows. Leg extension and leg curl are great too.

So basically those are some half decent machines. If you want to switch and try them sometime, feel free.

[Jerry DB]

Originally Posted by Reach

Well yeah, I think Ronnie Coleman was what, 330-340 pounds offseason and could bench 600 pounds for reps "lightweight baby!"? Anyone who underestimates how strong that man is simply hasn't had the experience of trying to fight someone of that size.

JerryDB, I'm not an MMA fighter, but I was a national level competitor in Taekwondo for years. Having fought some really big dudes, I think you underestimate the size of someone like Ronnie. We're talking about 100 pounds or more of pure muscle advantage, and in an MMA ring where you can't kick someone in the nuts, there's not going to be too much you could do other than run and potentially get him by the hips and pray to the lord that he goes down before he gets a good grip on you.

I actually do have experience in fighting guys way stronger then me, and I actually won both times. There was the guy who weighed only 15 more pounds then me but had a 340 bench when I had a 200 bench, and then there was a varsity football player who ****ed with me for like 2 weeks untill I got sick of it. He was 230 and at the time I weighed 150. The idiot didn't know what he was doing, honestly I was scared but I just stayed calm and out boxed him. Even if it did go to the ground I'm confident the amount I know in jiu jitsu would be enough to guard until his retard ass gassed out hella quickly trying to hulk smash my brains out. I'm not even close to a professional either(although I hope someday I can ) I do understand what your saying though and I'm definitely not underestimating ronnie, I'm a huge fan of his actually. It's just two way different spectrum's it's not really fair for ronnie to fight someone who does mma their whole life. I mean this is just common knowledge in the mma world. Sorry to be rude if I am haha definitely not trying to start anything. I just feel very strongly about this. I used to think the same thing as you. I mean you take alister overeem and he was way more brutal on roids, but that's because he already is a great fighter and has been doing it his whole life. I stand by what I said with complete confidence that I would be right 9 out of 10 times.

[Reach]

Originally Posted by Jerry DB

I actually do have experience in fighting guys way stronger then me, and I actually won both times. There was the guy who weighed only 15 more pounds then me but had a 340 bench when I had a 200 bench, and then there was a varsity football player who ****ed with me for like 2 weeks untill I got sick of it. He was 230 and at the time I weighed 150. The idiot didn't know what he was doing, honestly I was scared but I just stayed calm and out boxed him. Even if it did go to the ground I'm confident the amount I know in jiu jitsu would be enough to guard until his retard ass gassed out hella quickly trying to hulk smash my brains out. I'm not even close to a professional either(although I hope someday I can ) I do understand what your saying though and I'm definitely not underestimating ronnie, I'm a huge fan of his actually. It's just two way different spectrum's it's not really fair for ronnie to fight someone who does mma their whole life. I mean this is just common knowledge in the mma world. Sorry to be rude if I am haha definitely not trying to start anything. I just feel very strongly about this. I used to think the same thing as you. I mean you take alister overeem and he was way more brutal on roids, but that's because he already is a great fighter and has been doing it his whole life. I stand by what I said with complete confidence that I would be right 9 out of 10 times.

Hey man, I've beaten plenty of guys that are in the 200s too, but having sparred with a 240 pound bodybuilder, it's just my opinion that I would never in a million years want to try to fight someone that's 340 pounds of steroid induced muscle. They can just crush you man and hitting them is like running into a brick wall.

I'm not really getting into anything here, it's just hypothetical and you guys were talking about it earlier so I felt like chiming in with my opinion.

Some of the biggest MMA fighters could probably beat Ronnie, but smaller guys? No way.

But sadly, it's never going to happen so

[Jerry DB]

Originally Posted by Reach

Hey man, I've beaten plenty of guys that are in the 200s too, but having sparred with a 240 pound bodybuilder, it's just my opinion that I would never in a million years want to try to fight someone that's 340 pounds of steroid induced muscle. They can just crush you man and hitting them is like running into a brick wall.

I'm not really getting into anything here, it's just hypothetical and you guys were talking about it earlier so I felt like chiming in with my opinion.

Some of the biggest MMA fighters could probably beat Ronnie, but smaller guys? No way.

But sadly, it's never going to happen so

yea power like that is really absurd, it's just the fact that ufc fighters would know what they are doing so much that they would take advantage of his conditioning especially, besides all the lunges and punches they would see coming a mile away. I'm sure they would dance around him throwing leg kicks and quickly get out, ronnie would gas VERY quickly in a fight. Like I said earlier too the thing that would most likely take him down would be a low single. If ronnie could wrestle like even half of what brock lesnar can do, he would RAPE, but the fact is he never wrestled, boxed, did jiu jitsu or any other form of martial arts. Although he has huge power, his range of motion would be such a downfall, and like I said earlier, his punches wouldn't be as powerful as you think. My guess is he could punch around 1500 pounds of force where as cain velasquez could punch at 2200, with 4 times the speed(although that also plays into the power as well, but there is also the speed aspect of it) and he can go for at least 30 times longer then ronnie, literally. I really wish they would do sports science on that actually, that would be a great idea. Get ronnie or maybe cutler or phil heath or whoever really in that category, get them to throw some punches and kicks and measure it. They already have this data on cain velasquez so you would only need to get ronnie or someone in there.

[Reincarnate]

Inertia/momentum/force is hardcore shit. I'd rather get hit by a minivan going 30 MPH than a semi going at 30 MPH.

The martial artist here beat the heavier bodybuilder, sure, but the point is that the bodybuilder (who was untrained, here) wasn't exactly useless at taking on a top-notch fighter of a lower weight class.

Taking on someone like Ronnie without being a juggernaut yourself? Hellllllssss no

[Jerry DB]

hey, that's why I said 9/10. Also ronnie is way bigger in the difference that we are speaking of so more credit would go to ronnie in that aspect, but at the same time the person fighting in that video isn't well rounded like ufc fighters today and would be destroyed, bringing the mma fighter of today up quite a few notches as well. When I'm talking about people fighting ronnie I'm talking about the best, just as ronnie is the best at his sport. Therefore if you alter with the amount of experience any of these people have the results could be drastically different. Also here's this video
this guy would beat ronnie EVERY time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fcy1DTr5KDI

but yea if you don't know what your doing and haven't been fighting damn near your whole life and are 100 pounds less, ronnie would KILL you. However even 100 pounds in muscle difference isn't enough to take away all the rounded aspects of a perfect mma fighter

[Reach]

Originally Posted by Jerry DB

yea power like that is really absurd, it's just the fact that ufc fighters would know what they are doing so much that they would take advantage of his conditioning especially, besides all the lunges and punches they would see coming a mile away. I'm sure they would dance around him throwing leg kicks and quickly get out, ronnie would gas VERY quickly in a fight. Like I said earlier too the thing that would most likely take him down would be a low single. If ronnie could wrestle like even half of what brock lesnar can do, he would RAPE, but the fact is he never wrestled, boxed, did jiu jitsu or any other form of martial arts. Although he has huge power, his range of motion would be such a downfall, and like I said earlier, his punches wouldn't be as powerful as you think. My guess is he could punch around 1500 pounds of force where as cain velasquez could punch at 2200, with 4 times the speed(although that also plays into the power as well, but there is also the speed aspect of it) and he can go for at least 30 times longer then ronnie, literally. I really wish they would do sports science on that actually, that would be a great idea. Get ronnie or maybe cutler or phil heath or whoever really in that category, get them to throw some punches and kicks and measure it. They already have this data on cain velasquez so you would only need to get ronnie or someone in there.

Lots of good points.

My major issue is simple; He was a trained cop. I'm operating under the assumption that he has training in taking people down, since most cops do.


You could certainly take the easy route and simply score some points, wait the match out and win by gassing him.

Otherwise though he has to go down in a good position. In a compromised position you would be seriously screwed, since it's not going to take much for him to crush you.

I'd bet on heavy weight take down specialists being able to beat him for sure. It's well established that lighter guys can take down heavy guys and control them once they're in a good position, but ...I can't say I've ever fought someone bigger than 240 on juice (I took Judo for a year or so). 100 pounds of muscle on that seems pretty difficult to deal with.

As for Ronnie's range of motion, he seems pretty flexible, at least he was back in the day. He's old now so that wouldn't work so well. lol.


I know that taking a big guy that can't fight isn't a ticket to success. Look at that huge black dude they took off the streets a few years ago. Kimbo Slice. However, it's kind of shocking when you think about the fact that that guy is actually pretty tiny compared to Ronnie lol


Would be entertaining to say the least.

[Reincarnate]

Ronnie vs. Unicron

[Jerry DB]

Originally Posted by Reach

Lots of good points.

My major issue is simple; how would you fight him? He was a trained cop. I'm operating under the assumption that he has training in taking people down, since most cops do.


You could certainly take the easy route and simply score some points, wait the match out and win by gassing him.

Otherwise though he has to go down in a good position. In a compromised position you would be seriously screwed, since it's not going to take much for him to crush you.

I'd bet on heavy weight take down specialists being able to beat him for sure. It's well established that lighter guys can take down heavy guys and control them once they're in a good position, but ...I can't say I've ever fought someone bigger than 240 on juice (I took Judo for a year or so). 100 pounds of muscle on that seems pretty difficult to deal with.

As for Ronnie's range of motion, he seems pretty flexible, at least he was back in the day. He's old now so that wouldn't work so well. lol.


I know that taking a big guy that can't fight isn't a ticket to success. Look at that huge black dude they took off the streets a few years ago. Can't remember his name. However, it's kind of shocking when you think about the fact that that guy is actually pretty tiny compared to Ronnie lol


Would be entertaining to say the least.

I think your talking about kimbo slice, good name to bring up too haha it kind of helps show how important it is not to be only 1 aspect in a sport that requires everything.
any heavyweight wrestler would take him down and ground n pound his ass with superior positioning and cardio. Any heavyweight striking specialist would leg kick, jab, jab, more jabs, and more leg kicks until ronnie got aggressive(unless the striker just was smart and took him down at an opportunity) and then he would play into his aggression with beautiful counters that would make a very entertaining fight. Sure one good hit from ronnie and you could be out, but ronnie would be the same. He doesn't have the microfractures and rock hard skulls that ufc fighters have built up. Sure his body would be pretty indestructible, but face shots would overwhelm the big guy. As for jiu jitsu you take a guy like frank mir and he would tap him for sure, big people who don't know how to fight tend to be a jiu jitsu practitioners best asset when it comes to obvious locks and showing off their speed and technique. Sure ronnie would smash, but the defence of a ufc fighter far outweighs the amount of offense that ronnie could pull off in the short amount of time before ronnie gased and be half his true power.
In the scenario where they let 330 pounders fight 230 pounders, we could go back 15 years and give ronnie some youth, teach him how to fight for just 2 or 3 years, build up his defense and he would probably win every time. But the untrained ronnie is nothing in the mma world in my opinion, plus you have to factor in if ronnie worked on his conditioning, he would undoubtedly be a bit smaller and weaker
p.s. this is an awesome debate haha

this is a cool video too http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPrTDsBCM10 this too http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xWVCSHymgE Although bob sapp sucked mostly, he did have some experience

[Reincarnate]

Can anyone offer any experience to multivitamins/fish oil products (including those senip mentioned)?

[Bahamut-X]

Multivitamins seem to be quite controversial.

From my own personal experience taking multivitamins, I've never really felt all that different from when I wasn't taking them. I'm guessing that's either because my diet was already sufficiently well balanced to provide everything I needed, or the multivitamin itself wasn't doing shit.

Fish oil seems to be more conclusive though. Supposedly it supports cardiovascular health and joint strength and durability, plus helps deliver vitamin D (which can be difficult to get enough of since it requires exposure to sunlight, and is only found in a very select few type of foods). I myself do take fish oil on a regular basis (in pill form though, I think liquid might be more beneficial. Not too sure on that). I started using this brand after doing some research and finding that their multivitamin is rated as one of the best. http://www.xtend-life.com/product/Om..._Fish_Oil.aspx.

I don't know if I would order from them again though since like I said I don't feel any tangible difference taking either their multi or fish oil. However I am no scientist. I'm sure Reach can shed much more light on the subject.

[SCWolf]

Originally Posted by Bahamut-X

Multivitamins seem to be quite controversial.

From my own personal experience taking multivitamins, I've never really felt all that different from when I wasn't taking them. I'm guessing that's either because my diet was already sufficiently well balanced to provide everything I needed, or the multivitamin itself wasn't doing shit.

Fish oil seems to be more conclusive though. Supposedly it supports cardiovascular health and joint strength and durability, plus helps deliver vitamin D (which can be difficult to get enough of since it requires exposure to sunlight, and is only found in a very select few type of foods). I myself do take fish oil on a regular basis (in pill form though, I think liquid might be more beneficial. Not too sure on that). I started using this brand after doing some research and finding that their multivitamin is rated as one of the best. http://www.xtend-life.com/product/Om..._Fish_Oil.aspx.

I don't know if I would order from them again though since like I said I don't feel any tangible difference taking either their multi or fish oil. However I am no scientist. I'm sure Reach can shed much more light on the subject.

You're right about the multivitamins. If you have a good diet already, you're just going to piss the multivitamin out, really. Your body can only synthesize so much naturally.

[Reach]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

Can anyone offer any experience to multivitamins/fish oil products (including those senip mentioned)?

I'm going to say something controversial, but hey, it's just advice.

Multivitamins are a waste of money.

Unless you exclude major food groups and have absolutely no variation in your diet (e.g you are vegan or are anorexic and consuming low amounts of exclusively junk food), you're not going to be vitamin deficient. Most studies on the matter show multivits to be completely useless other than in specific situations where people are chronically vitamin deficient. The vitamin market is basically just expensive piss.

Fish oil; you only need to supplement Omega 3, so don't bother going with 3-6-9.

[Reincarnate]

That is indeed part of my concern though. My diet, despite hitting macros, is not super diverse or anything (I pretty much only like broccoli/carrots/corn/lettuce when it comes to veggies, and I don't eat fruit often). I am wondering if it's worth investing in a multi just to compensate for my pickiness.


EDIT: And yeah, the fish oil I have is pretty much just Omega-3 (2 pills contains 360 mg EPA, 240 mg DPA, etc -- 2400 mg fish oil concentrate)

[Reach]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

That is indeed part of my concern though. My diet, despite hitting macros, is not super diverse or anything (I pretty much only like broccoli/carrots/corn/lettuce when it comes to veggies, and I don't eat fruit often). I am wondering if it's worth investing in a multi just to compensate for my pickiness.


EDIT: And yeah, the fish oil I have is pretty much just Omega-3 (2 pills contains 360 mg EPA, 240 mg DPA, etc -- 2400 mg fish oil concentrate)

Fish oil supp sounds perfectly fine. Most people aren't deficient in 6 and 9.

Broccoli and carrots are incredibly rich in nutrients. If you're honestly worried, just invest the money in it because being in the right state of mind matters. However, I have absolutely no advice on recommended brands, so someone else will have to fill in there.

Personally, I like vector cereal in the morning because it's tasty and has like half of your RDA for most micronutrients. I ate that stuff my entire cut. Sadly it's kind of expensive though ;(

[Reincarnate]

And only sold in Canada as far as I could tell XD

I really wanted Vector, too (massive cereal fiend)

[Bahamut-X]

You could always hop on the oatmeal bandwagon.

Very, very cheap and absurdly filling. Seriously every time I make oatmeal I NEVER finish the whole bowl. Even if I try and make less than the previous time. Gets you plenty of fiber as well. That or a spinach and egg white omelette are my favorite breakfasts.

Too bad about Vector only being sold in Canada. I would definitely buy that as well if it was available here.

[SCWolf]

Originally Posted by Bahamut-X

You could always hop on the oatmeal bandwagon.

Very, very cheap and absurdly filling. Seriously every time I make oatmeal I NEVER finish the whole bowl. Even if I try and make less than the previous time. Gets you plenty of fiber as well. That or a spinach and egg white omelette are my favorite breakfasts.

Too bad about Vector only being sold in Canada. I would definitely buy that as well if it was available here.

I eat so much Vector. So much Vector.

[Reincarnate]

Originally Posted by Bahamut-X

You could always hop on the oatmeal bandwagon.

Very, very cheap and absurdly filling. Seriously every time I make oatmeal I NEVER finish the whole bowl. Even if I try and make less than the previous time. Gets you plenty of fiber as well. That or a spinach and egg white omelette are my favorite breakfasts.

Too bad about Vector only being sold in Canada. I would definitely buy that as well if it was available here.

A while back in this thread I had that problem too

I couldn't finish the bowl and my cat started to take notice:

http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...&postcount=278