TWG CLXXXV: C9+++++++++ Game Thread

[ShadoWolfe]

so my free relaxing weekend turned into a work weekend. thought I'd be able to phonepost a little at work but that didn't turn out too well. being on a strict salary also means I don't get paid extra for weekend work or overtime, so it's super lovely.

anyway, I'ma take this chance to spend some time on game.

not sure if anyone will be up at this hour but please ping me if you are. skimming thread showed me that people unsurprisingly want a little more from me. I know I haven't been up to par this game with the absences and all, but I'm hoping the plus side to that is that I may have drawn an opportunistic wolf or two to pin their hopes on lynching me this phase. Looking forward to checking that.

ok, nuff said lol let's do this shit

[Hakulyte]

I'm around. I don't work this sunday as well.

My main issue with you has been to understand how you make your own reads during this game.

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

I'm around. I don't work this sunday as well.

My main issue with you has been to understand how you make your own reads during this game.

Quote me a read and I'll explain where I'm at now and how I got to where I was when I posted whatever it was

In general, I read different people differently. I also think I learned a lot during the trailer park game both in private conversations and voice chats. A lot meaning both about people's personalities and their playstyles. Some stuff seems obvious in retrospect but I think it took a year of not playing with you all for it to sink in once we did play again.

Before the trailer park game, I would've answered a "how do you make your reads?" question with "I try and analyze intention in posts and compare the possibilities of each alignment making that post"

NOW, after that game and subsequent lTWGs, I think it's more "for each personality, I try and picture that person sitting there and typing that post as each alignment and try to feel which voice sounds/flows more genuine(ly)."

Sounds like there isn't much difference, but I think the nuance is HUGE

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

NOW, after that game and subsequent lTWGs, I think it's more "for each personality, I try and picture that person sitting there and typing that post as each alignment and try to feel which voice sounds/flows more genuine(ly)."

Sounds like there isn't much difference, but I think the nuance is HUGE

last thing on this. some people dismiss metareads as trash because meta is constantly changing. they aren't wrong that meta constantly changes, but it's super helpful to know someone and be able to analyze them based on what you know of them.

Reason there goes back to people playing differently. Take FFA and myself, for instance. Wholly different playstyles. Wholly different posting styles. Wholly different reading styles. But when it's all said and done, it's our knowledge of how each other operates that's enabling me to read him through all the nonsense and flippant posts. Whereas, before the hours of conversations we'd had, I was asking for help reading him because he was so unlike anyone else that I had to keep drawing a blank when trying to figure out where his posts were coming form

[Hakulyte]

I'm like really curious because it's my first game with him.

[Hakulyte]

I guess that makes you consistent overall. The rest of your posts have been about looking up a few random players (star, xel, etc.) and asking things in general.

I feel like finding wolfy stuff is frustratingly hard this game.

I see what I consider sub optimal plays, but I don't really see slips or mistakes.

It's like everyone is sitting back waiting for something to happen.

I think I'm just going to wait for Antori/Raeko to address the above. Maybe that'll make things move forward somehow.

[Antori]

if I'm cop i got Green check on Xelnya

[mellon_collie]

also I'm gonna be kinda busy today, sorry, I'll be around later tonight

[MixMasterLar]

Originally Posted by roundbox

time to move on

I would very much like you to still signalboost the post of Raeko' s that illustrate the praise you where giving her for that time.

Misreading my intentions and being a dick, while waiting forever to log in and have it clarified is no excuse for you to just decide it's time to not answer the question. Either show me that wasn't fluff or just admit you like defending Raeko every single game you two play together.

Originally Posted by inDheart

when you say "countervoting" which vote of mine are you talking about here

I took your vote on Wayward as a protest vote so Antori wouldn't get wagoned. Is this not so?

Originally Posted by Antori

i was expecting to die there not sure why everyone decided to go for the safe kill but i still have wolf reads on Gradiant

I'm not making any more reads lists btw I'll just say what i think

I'm not voting Gradiant this phase
Especially if you have no reasons for that read.

Making a readslist didn't make you suspected, it's you not paying attention to your own realists

Originally Posted by Antori

i played with star-crossed, inDheart, FFA, Xelnya, Raeko and that's it i think correct me if wrong

You've played twice with me at least.

You've even got me lynched in FFA's OOTC game

[inDheart]

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

I took your vote on Wayward as a protest vote so Antori wouldn't get wagoned. Is this not so?

no i had wayward reasons for voting wayward. he wasn't playing the game and the post where he read an mml post and called haku town from it just. wasn't a thing after he contradicted it

[roundbox]

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

I would very much like you to still signalboost the post of Raeko' s that illustrate the praise you where giving her for that time.

Misreading my intentions and being a dick, while waiting forever to log in and have it clarified is no excuse for you to just decide it's time to not answer the question. Either show me that wasn't fluff or just admit you like defending Raeko every single game you two play together.

I said it was an accident and acknowledged it? I think you are misreading the tone of my post, especially the "time to move on" part. That was a thought to myself, not telling you to move on, lmao.

I'll grab the posts later. Also, I would have no problem throwing raeko under the bus if she was posting wolfy fmpov, don't get me wrong. For what it's worth, take a look at the games that we've played with each other. The last game that we were on opposite alignments was TWGood End, and raeko was hard reading me wolf. All of the other games we've played together we've happened to be the same alignment (both wolf and town). I've yet to have a game where I'm town and raeko is wolf. Based off of how she read me in TWGood end, I've been scared of going into the same game as her and rolling wolf while she's town. I think I'd be fucked, frankly. See how many people have asked her about her read on me this game. I don't understand the double standard of people being able to ask her about her read on me, but not me about the read on her. Frankly, I find it insulting that people would insinuate such a bias for a game that's all about figuring out if people are lying. If I was town and I had indications that she was a wolf, I would not hesitate to hold that back. It's ridiculous to assume otherwise. I think I know her enough that I would be able to spot any wolfiness if it was the case this game or any other game. You can believe that I will arbitrarily defend her every game, or you can hear me out and tell you why it seems like this.

I was planning on chilling and playing video games a bit until playing some more TWG for the day, but I guess if you're going to patronize me, I have no choice but to bend to your whims.

WHY I TOWNREAD RAEKO THIS GAME (SO FAR)
1. POST VOLUME
-one of raeko's struggles with being a wolf (since I've been her wolf partner at least 2 games) is generating posts and sticking with the game. Taking a quick look at the post count, raeko has more posts than Antori, Hakulyte, and is pretty much tied with Xel.
-if raeko was wolfing, I would expect her post count to be firmly on the bottom, rather than just above.

2. POSTING READS
-another struggle area with raeko's wolf is EOD as well as posting reads in general.
-looking at EOD, raeko consistently made posts within the last hour. not just any kinds of posts, but posts that weren't as vague as something like THIS post from a previous wolf game of hers

Originally Posted by mellon_collie

nah I read them I've read the entire thread I'm pretty sure. I just don't have anything to say really. First of all we've said it all before, and if I defend myself I get accused of only coming in to defend myself. I meant to prove you wrong with actions but you can see how well that went.

-look at how vague it is. "I've read the entire thread and I'm pretty sure. I just don't anything to say really. First of all we've all said it before"
-This is her struggling to come up with any novel idea about any sort of read. She insists that she has nothing really new to say, and that anything she says will just be a repeat of what's already been said in the thread. Let's compare that to some posts from EOD she made this game:

Originally Posted by mellon_collie

but why

Originally Posted by mellon_collie

Kinda? I think the things he says/does are weird in general, but I've had that problem in previous games where he turned out to be town. So that "weirdly" just means he's being himself and it's hard to read I guess

Originally Posted by mellon_collie

feeling offended that Ind left me out of his reads </3

I'm not sure about flash flash, he hasn't screamed town to me so I'd be ok with lynching him but he's not my top choice

how are you

here, she's developing some reads and contributing to discussion. She provides a response to inD about her read on Antori (which is a NEW, NOVEL READ)
she provides a read on flashflash, even though it's a bit paper-thin. she also responds to flashflash calling for indheart's lynch, so she's actively engaged in game solving rather than doing the alternative of "nothing new to say"

3. POST TIMING
-wolf raeko will wait until the last minute to start posting instead of trying to keep a consistent dialogue throughout the days. If you just look at this game, she's made posts at pretty regular intervals.
-if you were to look back at the same wolf game of hers that I quoted earlier and look at her posting frequency, you'll find this:

Originally Posted by mellon_collie

hi it's me Raeko I have arrived on the scene

POSTED AT 2:26 PM, eod was at 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by mellonxcollie

This is a bit of a weird thing to say but I mostly bring it up because I’m not really clear on how this cleared things up for you. You thought ind/sunfan/star were all on the same team, and now you still do? and so that cleared things up for you to think the others are town? Or am I misunderstanding? This is also based on posts I read afterward and I was reading them all out of order so idk if I'm just confusing myself here

I feel you a lot on this. It’s been hard for me to get into forum games lately, and this one has been especially difficult for some reason

posted at 4:25 PM, two whole hours later for this ONE post. she does provide a townread on lar later in this post, but let's look at these first two points
-she's unsure and confused about her read on t-force. read the last line of this section. It's not taking an extremely firm stance.
-this right here is probably her biggest scumtell: "It's been hard for me to get into forum games lately" or "I just can't get my head in the game". I've seen her use this multiple times as a defense for being unable to come up with authentic reads, and I have yet to see it this game

Originally Posted by mellon_collie

sounds like someone's breathing salty

posted at 8:25 PM.
and also this is not providing any sort of fundamental read. she's just making a joke about modest mouse. no reads furthered, no large posts. just wavering and not coming up with any new ideas.


---

If this doesn't convince you that my read is authentic and that I'm basing it off of my understanding of her gameplay, I don't know what will.

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by roundbox

Also, I would have no problem throwing raeko under the bus if she was posting wolfy fmpov, don't get me wrong.

. - .

Good, I wasn't misremembering it.

More importantly though is how he established a rubric for what he was basing his read on and why she was town, and then changed his criteria when it was pointed out that she was a wolf under that rubric.

that'd still be believable though if he really believed in a read, but his justification there was that he could sum up raeko's wolfgame to being exactly the lowest poster and have infrequently timed posts. I refuse to believe roundbox sincerely looks at raeko's game with the mindset that she can't be wolf on such a flimsy basis

[MixMasterLar]

Originally Posted by inDheart

hey would wolf raeko follow me when i tried to move attention to shado if she's varying amounts of fine with each lynch and posts about wanting to vote wayward

open q

in specifically her w, shado v the choice doesn't matter but it could rule out a w/w

I think she is less likely to do it as wolf because as wolf she wouldn't be second guessing her lynch after she's made her case.

Originally Posted by inDheart

new meta: ffa's partners bus him and everyone's ok with this because it takes up so much space in the game state that it just wrecks reading anything

Yeah absolutely no one gains cred if he flips wolf in a lynch because I don't see how even his partners would want to save this trainwreck.

Although I'm waiting for one of them to say "this feels too easy lets not vote him" because that is legit the only way to save him in that scenario.

Originally Posted by roundbox

I don't really see what Lar is trying to say with this post. Is he scum leaning YoshL for his response, or is he making a concession on the point? Lar is the first one to mention the word padding, and he just says "d0 thoughts are d0 thoughts". This is a bit contradictory as he uses it as a defense of haku's post, but also as a weapon against YoshL. If they're just d0 thoughts, why is yoshl padding but haku isn't? It doesn't make sense.

This gets covered more and more as you read and I'm sure I have explained it different ways to express the thought clearer, but padding from Person A =/= Padding from Person B

Another way to look at it: I expect better from Yosh

A different way to look at it: I have low expectations for Haku

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

. - .

Good, I wasn't misremembering it.

Jesus Christ, that would be one hell of a slip wouldn't it?

The FMPOV really makes that look worse somehow

[Antori]

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

I'm not voting Gradiant this phase
Especially if you have no reasons for that read.

his "to lynch on d0" list only had me, shado and wayward which removing wayward only leaves the two people that pressured him that day. that sounds like a defensive play as if someone is opting to kill people that suspect him at all, he does have suspicion on daikyi because he has similair train of that which i dong know why you'd wanna lynch someone if they're thinking how you think, is he claiming that he's evil role? this is the vibe i got from the reads list it sounded wolfy to me.

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

Making a readslist didn't make you suspected, it's you not paying attention to your own realists

good think i'm still making it in my notepad but just so i catch up to what my thoughts are when i hop back in

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

You've played twice with me at least.

You've even got me lynched in FFA's OOTC game

this is second time actually sorry i was sure i was forgetting someone

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by Antori

his "to lynch on d0" list only had me, shado and wayward which removing wayward only leaves the two people that pressured him that day. that sounds like a defensive play as if someone is opting to kill people that suspect him at all

Ehh. I didn't pressure Gradiant last phase so much as irritate him ATTRACT HIS WRATH by misunderstanding his read and make him maddo with my over the top neverending arrogance and flawless self-image

[flashflash account]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Ehh. I didn't pressure Gradiant last phase so much as irritate him ATTRACT HIS WRATH by misunderstanding his read and make him maddo with my over the top neverending arrogance and flawless self-image

I'm getting a divorce

[Gradiant]

Originally Posted by Antori

his "to lynch on d0" list only had me, shado and wayward which removing wayward only leaves the two people that pressured him that day. that sounds like a defensive play as if someone is opting to kill people that suspect him at all, he does have suspicion on daikyi because he has similair train of that which i dong know why you'd wanna lynch someone if they're thinking how you think, is he claiming that he's evil role? this is the vibe i got from the reads list it sounded wolfy to me.

I've already gone over this. the only person that was even close to pressuring me was you and it was with a vote because I was at work. You also never had me as scum, you had me as wanted to lynch because you couldn't read me. I also never said daikyi was suspicious or scummy, I said I was weary of him, just cautious. This is the first time you said I was wolfy at all so far this game.

[MixMasterLar]

Shado posting and reading d0 = good
Shado making a case against Antori before he can post today after we've already decided that those reasons were not good enough for lynch last phase = kinda bad

I'm glad that wasn't his only output because that part of his wall just looked like picking on the easy target who wasn't there

That said, I'll undercut myself and say that I'm expecting a lot more from Antori this phase

[MixMasterLar]

With family I'll reread Antori's recent posts later and comment on them then

[inDheart]

shadowolfe notice my toxicity uwu