NO... >_< SUPRNOVA.ORG TORRENTS ARE GONE FOR GOOD

[evilbutterfly]

If people kept the torrents open, of course it still works. Suprnova itself doesn't host any of the programs.

Now, I don't really condone stealing, but I see this as different. If you take a stereo from the store, not only are you getting that stereo for free, but you're taking a tangible item that another person could have bought. The store had to buy that stereo, so you're taking the store's money, so they increase prices.

Online, however, you're not costing anybody money. If you're not gonna buy the game anyways, I don't see a problem with DLing it. For instance, there's no way in HELL I'm giving Michael Moore my money, so I downloaded his stupid movie. Or like, The Sims. I'm not gonna play that game! I treated my download of it as like, borrowing it from a friend or downloading a demo. I also DLed the HL2 beta a while back, and it was so good (and it was nowhere finished) that I plan on buying it as soon as I get money.


But I must say, modern day downloading's popularity is just like the popularity of alcohol during Prohibition. It doesn't matter how many secret taverns you shut down, more will just keep coming.

[Anuj]

I accidentally downloaded the bitorrent file to my computer (the .tor file) so whenever I want to resume dling it, I Just open the .tor file and it resumes the download... like I said, you can't find likes to .tor files anymore, but if you have the .tor file already, you can dl stuff off bittorrent...

[dmleet]

Originally Posted by evilbutterfly

If people kept the torrents open, of course it still works. Suprnova itself doesn't host any of the programs.

Now, I don't really condone stealing, but I see this as different. If you take a stereo from the store, not only are you getting that stereo for free, but you're taking a tangible item that another person could have bought. The store had to buy that stereo, so you're taking the store's money, so they increase prices.

Online, however, you're not costing anybody money. If you're not gonna buy the game anyways, I don't see a problem with DLing it. For instance, there's no way in HELL I'm giving Michael Moore my money, so I downloaded his stupid movie. Or like, The Sims. I'm not gonna play that game! I treated my download of it as like, borrowing it from a friend or downloading a demo. I also DLed the HL2 beta a while back, and it was so good (and it was nowhere finished) that I plan on buying it as soon as I get money.


But I must say, modern day downloading's popularity is just like the popularity of alcohol during Prohibition. It doesn't matter how many secret taverns you shut down, more will just keep coming.

Popular economics quote: TINSTAAFL. Meaning nothing can be really free for a cost. So, Michael Moore created a movie. Production is the cost, and you pay for your internet service to get the movie for download.

And about getting the game for free... Where did Sierra get the money for paying developers? Grahics designers? Computer programmers? From every single copy they sell. Now, when you're downloading it for free, Sierra loses money, because developers made the game, which Sierra paid for. You're right about one thing however, it's free for you.

[whorlichan]

dmleet: it's TANSTAAFL. There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. Yay for Heinlein.

[dmleet]

Ain't is technically a slang.

But base on what I know it's "Is". They still mean the same so, =/...

[emccky]

english is retarded.

[Squeek]

Ok, first of all.

If you still have the BT file, you can still download stuff. Everybody should know that BT doesn't work over a network; it works through peers.

Second, yes, it's a shame that it had to take a dive, but it's not the end of the world. TR is still up and with all the same links. There's no problem here and I don't see why people are going nuts over this. Maybe it's because I never downloaded programs.

Third, there was some news concerning the banning of web trackers from certain sites, but it has no legal basis and thus can go nowhere. BT has two things that make it unique: 1) Sharing without the use of a network and 2) Never sharing the entire file. If it goes to court, those two things save the day. Kazaa won because their server was based outside of America. Well, there's no server to base BT on...

~Squeek

[evilbutterfly]

Originally Posted by dmleet

Popular economics quote: TINSTAAFL. Meaning nothing can be really free for a cost. So, Michael Moore created a movie. Production is the cost, and you pay for your internet service to get the movie for download.

And about getting the game for free... Where did Sierra get the money for paying developers? Grahics designers? Computer programmers? From every single copy they sell. Now, when you're downloading it for free, Sierra loses money, because developers made the game, which Sierra paid for. You're right about one thing however, it's free for you.

You do realize I already covered all that, don't you? Obviously not. What you said assumes that any products gotten for free would be bought if they hadn't been acquired for free. If I'm not gonna buy the Sims, I'm not gonna give them my money. If I download it, it's not taking away any actual tangible items that were produced, so they lose nothing. Yeah, they don't gain anything, but I'm not costing them a dime.

Also, if I went to the store and stole the Sims off of the rack, I still wouldn't be costing the game company a cent. The store already bought all the copies of the game from the company, so the game developers have made their share. It is, however, cutting into the store's profits, since they paid for that copy and now nobody else can get it, so they wasted their money. I don't agree with stealing tangible goods, but downloading something does not have any effect on anybody's pocketbook.

Btw, me downloading HL2 is what's making me want it the most. I've gotten to play with the gravity gun and all that jazz, so I want the full game and I'm going to buy it. Don't give me any crap about "well you have to pay for the game to support them to make more cool games!" because that's what I do. It's like downloading a demo, and if you think the game sucks you don't buy it. If I download a game and love it, I'll go get the game (mostly to continue the goodness through multiplayer). It's like if you borrowed the game from your friend and loved it, you may decide to go get your own copy.

So no, nobody is losing money when I download things. Nobody at all.

[Wayfaerer_]

Different way of viewing it, but even though you are not costing anyone anything, you are undermining a profit that could have been made.

[emccky]

they make enough money as it is.

[speedythx]

torrentspy dot com is my replacement

[Anticrombie0909]

Hey sup guys, Sierra went belly up, they didn't publish HL2, Vivendi Universal did, kthx. Thought I'd mention that.

Anyway, to all the people saying that more sites will pop up, I'm not so sure. See, remember when the RIAA went on their P2P purging? I said "oh well, it'll be gone for two months and sixteen more sites will pop up." Only that never happened. The percentage of people still using P2P networks is something like 20% of the total previously. I'm worried about this...I'm gonna have to spend money now. =/

[dmleet]

Originally Posted by evilbutterfly

You do realize I already covered all that, don't you? Obviously not. What you said assumes that any products gotten for free would be bought if they hadn't been acquired for free. If I'm not gonna buy the Sims, I'm not gonna give them my money. If I download it, it's not taking away any actual tangible items that were produced, so they lose nothing. Yeah, they don't gain anything, but I'm not costing them a dime.

Also, if I went to the store and stole the Sims off of the rack, I still wouldn't be costing the game company a cent. The store already bought all the copies of the game from the company, so the game developers have made their share. It is, however, cutting into the store's profits, since they paid for that copy and now nobody else can get it, so they wasted their money. I don't agree with stealing tangible goods, but downloading something does not have any effect on anybody's pocketbook.

Btw, me downloading HL2 is what's making me want it the most. I've gotten to play with the gravity gun and all that jazz, so I want the full game and I'm going to buy it. Don't give me any crap about "well you have to pay for the game to support them to make more cool games!" because that's what I do. It's like downloading a demo, and if you think the game sucks you don't buy it. If I download a game and love it, I'll go get the game (mostly to continue the goodness through multiplayer). It's like if you borrowed the game from your friend and loved it, you may decide to go get your own copy.

So no, nobody is losing money when I download things. Nobody at all.

Okay, so why do you think suprnova.org closed? You don't see the effect in the long run.

So, you downloaded a program that isn't free, instead of buying from a retail store. If there are more and more people not buying the real thing, which is what is happening now, then what do you think those retail stores will do? They will stop buying such software because not as much people are buying them anymore, since people are getting those programs off the net, for free. And with not much retail stores buying wholesaled products, developers lose money since they are neither taking back what they spent and they're not making any profit just like retail stores. This is where the gov't starts acting. And if what you said is true, then I'm sure the government won't mind sites such as suprnova.org to float off the net because it doesn't hurt anybody, based on how you see this, when no one is losing money when you download programs that are not supposed to be free.

And I'm not telling you to buy off the shelf. I was simply discussing how Sierra loses money.

You kind of defeated the purpose of your post. You clearly explained who is losing money: retail stores, instead of you saying nobody is losing money as your conclusion.

[SotN]

Originally Posted by MrESqueek

Ok, first of all.

If you still have the BT file, you can still download stuff. Everybody should know that BT doesn't work over a network; it works through peers.

Third, there was some news concerning the banning of web trackers from certain sites, but it has no legal basis and thus can go nowhere. BT has two things that make it unique: 1) Sharing without the use of a network and 2) Never sharing the entire file. If it goes to court, those two things save the day. Kazaa won because their server was based outside of America. Well, there's no server to base BT on...

~Squeek

Not quite correct. The health of a torrent depends on one thing, the tracker. The tracker is what tells your client which peers are connected to the torrrent. Then you connect to the peers who tell what they have and what they need. If the tracker were to go down, you still maintain those connections. If you disconnect from the torrent, most bt clients save the address of peers and can still connect to them of the tracker is down, but you cant connenct to anyone else. Why can you still connect to suprnova torrents and have a healthy tracker? There still two trackers that havent been shut down, but they only mirror the site. Meaning that as people hear the news suprnova died, the trackers die because no one's distributing torrent files.

There's currently a bittorrent client in development (made by the people of suprnova, oddly enough), that will totally circumvent the need for the tracker. Peers will share the addresses of other peers instead of relying on the tracker. It will also make the .torrent file itself invisble to the user, as peers will share it as well as the file. A torrent file is only the address of the tracker and crc32 hashes of the pieces of the file, after all.

All in all, bittorrent has two fatal weakness. Anyone can connect to the tracker and obtain the ips of all peers connected to the tracker, making the MPAA's job easy. And the health of the torrent depends solely on the tracker, giving those who feel wronged by it a single target to attack.

By the way, SuprNova was based in germany. Being outside of America rarely means anything, unless you live in a place like Russia. (where you'd be lucky to see legal software in its orignal box once in a blue moon)

VVV zildjian133, Sierra was bought by Vivendi.

[flypie743]

SotN =O!

[zildjian133]

Originally Posted by Anticrombie0909

Hey sup guys, Sierra went belly up, they didn't publish HL2, Vivendi Universal did, kthx. Thought I'd mention that.

I never heard of that, did they go bankrupt? Even if they did go bankrupt or close to bankrupt, it would most likely be caused by competition, I don't think illegal pirating of software can seriously drive a huge company like that to bankruptcy. But who knows :\

[CypherToorima]

Originally Posted by flypie743

SotN =O!

[Squeek]

I was wondering when someone would comment on those two things.

Anyone know if they are still working on the "trackerless" downloading system? Makes for some interesting downloadings.

~Squeek

[SotN]

Development is going smoothly. Much of it complete, actually. Download and publishing fucntionality is complete, though buggy.

[I-wanna-get-laid]

It's a real bummer though because that's where I always got my InuYasha episodes from...*cries*

So why is there a suprnova.ORG and a suprnova.COM?
Why is one free and why is one not?