SSBM Competitive info.

[MarisaKirisame]

You're the ones complaining about items being off in the first place. It's not like we made a thread just to say "item players are noobs" or something.

[masterhickle]

Originally Posted by ckj846

Haha. This made me realize why I never joined a tourney.

First, items are there for a reason. It balances out the game and makes it so that a lower tier character or a lower skilled player can have a chance at beating a higher tier/skilled player. Nintendo didn't want to make a game that was completely unbalanced, and so they implemented items in order to make it much more enjoyable for a BROADER AUDIENCE. You must remember it's a game and whether it ranges from a casual player to a serious player, it is completely irrelevant. Items are part of the game and they don't make it unfair, they do quite the opposite. Sometimes it's better to make things random because it makes the game more interesting and it also makes the players smarter and more skillful. If you see someone with a bomb-omb running at you, it's very easy to just put up your shield or to dodge it. A pokeball? OH NOES just get out of the area effect. All of these excuses that you guys are pulling out of your asses are completely irrelevant because they are all hypothetical situations. It's not like you are running and "Oh! A pokeball in my hand? I BETTER USE IT LAWL" It gives the game a new dimension because now you have to watch your opponent and look out for the environment with the items. And the ability to adapt to different environments is the key to a great gamer. Random? Unfair? To an extent, but a competition always has it's controlled and uncontrolled variables.

I can speak on this part because I'm an athlete. I do swimming and water polo and many things can go wrong. The starting block might be slippery so you slip when you start, your goggles are too tight or too loose so it causes mishaps during the race, the other players don't cut their nails for polo so you have to suck it up throughout the game. This is a true competitor, someone who can adapt to the situation and still come out on top. Stop your whining and get your asses outside and try a REAL competition. Video game tourneys are stupid and pointless, especially if there are limitations. Believe me, taking advantage of the physics of the game is much more "gay" then using what is purposely implemented (and you guys really need to watch your language because you never know who is reading what you're saying. I'm homosexual and the constant reference to sucking each other off and LAWL CUM is very immature and rude).

Get over yourselves. You play a GAME and bitch when something goes wrong. Get your asses outside and play a sport and then come talk to me.

O_o

Im not reading all of that, because you just suck.
First, you dont know what nintendo thinks. Second, I play hockey, and now im talking to you. What now?

[ckj846]

You don't have respect to read what I write so I have zero respect for you. It's rather simple actually.

O_o

PS: Playing casually doesn't count. I mean at extremely high levels of competition. A lot can go wrong at a sectionals or state championship. But you suck it up and do the best you can. It's the same thing as your little LAWL MLG SSBM I RZ DA HAXXORZ CUZ I KNO DA RULZ. Good for you, it doesn't mean you can put yourself on a pedestal and think you know everything.

[Chromer]

Ckj, I used to run track for four years before I graduated. Everything you said is exactly correct. So many things can go wrong it's not even funny. For example, for the Virginia Tech Invitational that I ran in 11th grade, we were running the 800 Speed Medley which requires absolute timing if you want to get a good time on your leg and push your team further up. I was the anchor I saw my man coming up behind me. I turned around and waited for the baton to hit me hand. I grabbed it and turned my ankle around the wrong way because of the position. By the random twitching of my leg to ankle, it slowed me down and we got 2nd place when we were in position for first.

As Ckj said, Nintendo put items in the game for a reason so that it balances out the over-powered high tier characters from always winning. You idorts think Nintendo didn't know that Marth's tip was over-powered? That Fox'sreflector had a 1 frame startup and can be abused? That Shiek's tilts and Airs have higher priority than most attacks in the game? That Peach's Dair can tack on up to 70% damage when done correctly?

Also about Peach, you are an idiot. Peach has the highest DI (Directional Influence) in the entire game making her the hardest character in the game to kill unless over 100% or just really good. Also, pulling out a stitch face once every 2-3 matches? That's a bull**** lie because one of my friends main Peach and he pulls out a stitch face every match. You obviously have no idea what you are talking homeslice.

Also, I stopped using items in the game when I found out that tournaments didn't use items that much except for the few tournaments that did have items on. You said that I have no idea what I'm saying anymore? I basically said that since I play with these people, I know I have skill enough to put $200 of my own money in a money match against you. Since you are probably too young to have that kind of money lying around and probably too scared to actually accept, I'll leave it at that. When you actually grow up and get the money and balls to accept, come talk to me.

Overall, your argument is just plain retarded. You come in here with you and your gay friends and try to impose upon us your idea that items make the game unbalanced? I only have one thing to say to you. Actually, you can say it to yourself.

Originally Posted by masterhickle

you dont know what nintendo thinks.

Who are you to tell us what NIntendo thinks when you have no connection to Nintendo whatsoever? So you think just because MLG says you have to have items off, then it must be true? If that's the case then you guys really need to stop playing SSBM and maybe go play Halo 2 competitively. I'm sure they would love to hear some bull**** reason why you think the Pistol should be banned as well. >_>

[masterhickle]

I can speak on this part because I'm an athlete. I do swimming and water polo and many things can go wrong.

Ya know, if you just turn items off, you won't have any problems.

Ckj, I used to run track for four years before I graduated. Everything you said is exactly correct. So many things can go wrong it's not even funny.

Congratulations, you two both agree on comparing two things that are barely similar.

You idorts think Nintendo

Ironic...

PS: Playing casually doesn't count. I mean at extremely high levels of competition.

You tell us that, basically, we suck for not using items, and yet you're telling us to go play at higher levels of play, where you can't use items. I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S REAL ANYMORE.

That's a bull**** lie because one of my friends main Peach and he pulls out a stitch face every match.

He must be on one lucky run to pull a stitch face every match, or do nothing but pull turnips.

[Squeek]

Originally Posted by masterhickle

Ya know, if you just turn items off, you won't have any problems.

Oh, but I will.

See, I've played with items the entire 300+ hours I've put into the game. They're a part of my strategy. I understand that what I get is random, that some capsules explode, and it's all part of the risk I'm willing to take.

I also understand that I have such awesome timing and accuracy when it comes to throwing them that I have a 90% chance of hitting my target with an item. Human players, computer players, whatever. Nobody can predict my throws. I bounce them off walls, off of moving obstacles, whatever. I throw them off-screen and they'll still hit you.

And what do I do when it hits you? Well, in that second that your character sprite flinches to take the damage, I have my combo ready to go to get you sailing away.

All of that is banned in your pathetic tournaments. So, I hope you understand now. If I went to your tournaments and was told "we don't allow items", they're basically telling me to my face "your game-play style is not allowed, so your 300 hours of gameplay was a total waste and you need to learn how to play the game our way lol noob"

Anyway, last I checked, the most competitive video game to date (Counter Strike) has not banned ANY practices in its tournaments. You buy anything available in the game. You exploit whatever hitboxes are there. Whatever. As long as you're not using a cheat engine, it's fair game. They're not gonna turn around and go "well the AWP is cheap, so we're gonna ban it." because that's retarded. Why would you ban what is essential to the game? It's not like poker matches suddenly go "well, in order to prevent luck from being a factor, we're going to make this deck 52 aces instead of other cards." Taking it to the extreme, it's pretty much like saying "well, you're a better player than he is, so we're going to have to smash your legs in before the match to balance you two out, ok?"

[slickskater29]

Originally Posted by Chromer

Who are you to tell us what NIntendo thinks when you have no connection to Nintendo whatsoever? So you think just because MLG says you have to have items off, then it must be true? If that's the case then you guys really need to stop playing SSBM and maybe go play Halo 2 competitively. I'm sure they would love to hear some bull**** reason why you think the Pistol should be banned as well. >_>

We didn't say what Nintendo thinks, CKJ did, asshat. And you are calling yourself a tourney ***, so you are once again hypocritical. Halo and SSBM are 2 different games. Track and SSBM are 2 different things. What the **** are you talking about anymore? Also, I'm pretty sure Jiggy has the best DI. I also garuntee that the majority of competitive smash players think they make matches unbalanced.

I play hockey, and iIve been to states. I can honestly say things that can go wrong, but I won't because its completely different from SSBM.

Also, quit mentioning this money match if you arn't going to tell me where the **** VB is? I can afford it, dont worry, but if it costs me more to get there.

@squeek and everyone else, this is about SSBM, because the rules are chaged for the better of the game, does not mean that every game does that. Stop thinking that because other games dont do it, that we should too. And yes, they'd probably say that, including the noob part. CS is not ssbm, poker is not SSBM.

[Chromer]

VB is Virginia Beach, Virginia. Scrape your change together and maybe you might make it here. You can guarantee nothing to me or this thread. You aren't the majority of smash players in the world. You are just one person who is trying to prove why he thinks taking items out of a game where it is one of the major features of the game to make it "more balanced" (less difficult to fight and less strenuous thinking involved.) is the right way, end of story.

The reason why I mentioned Track is because like ANY GAME IN EXISTENCE there will always be a variable that makes the game random and unbalanced in some way. Let's take your OMG MLG RULLZZ for example. Say I'm using Sheik and I'm fighting a Marth on Fountain of Dreams. There are no items and I'm winning. Suddenly, the platform drops down within the range of Marth's tip and he smashes me to win.

Now, did anytime during that situation was there a mention of an item being used? No right? Wasn't it a random variable that affected the game decision. Yes it was.

The fact that SSBM can make the game unbalanced even without items being turned on only serves to nullify your entire argument.

[slickskater29]

Quote me where I said that items off completely balances the game. Other things that mess people up: Phantom hits, teleport glitches. So there are occurances that happen that just suck ass. Taking out items minimizes these problems. Since im too young to have that money lying around? I'm as old as you smart ass.

OH I GET IT! UR CALLING ME POOR! GOOD ONE!

P.S. kill yourself

[masterhickle]

The fact that SSBM can make the game unbalanced even without items being turned on only serves to nullify your entire argument.

So you're saying that turning items on can even further unbalance the game. Our argument has just strengthened, yours has weakened.

[ckj846]

Originally Posted by slickskater29

Quote me where I said that items off completely balances the game.

Originally Posted by slickskater29

Random character, stage, and items? If you are playing a competative game with cash prizes, which is 95% skill 5% luck. Why would you want to change it to be 60% luck 40% skill?

On the note of luck, you must be a retard. You are comparing poker, which is 75% luck, 25% skill, to a game which is 95% skill 5% luck. Basically two different games altogether, i know, because I play a lot of poker too.


On items, see above. Pro? Please, the people who get payed to play smash are pro. Items off! People considered to be amateur? Items off! You go ahead and make your own league of SSBM with items on. When you have your considered "pros" together, let me know, ok?

Items don't work that way. If you are skilled enough to mindgame your opponent, you will hit them every time with an item. Its like you just 0-death your opponent first stock, maybe take afew hits, but still almost a whole stock lead (with fox, its probably 15-20 hits). Your opponent grabs a bobomb, you dodge, he hits you, and the game is tied in 3 hits. In this instance, luck has completely taken over the skill factor. Without that bobomb, your opponent has to step up and combo you, or get you off the edge and edge guard. So many more skillfull things than throwing somthing that fell from the sky.

Oh. Just because you don't say an exact phrase doesn't mean it wasn't implied. Luck and skill all play in to the mix of balance.

I mention sports because like any "competition" there is a sort of variance. Items are part of that variance. Turning them off is like saying "Oh, now you'll never slip when you are starting a race!" or "Now you'll never get sweat in your eyes!" Competitions are for skilled players, but it also takes a certain amount of luck like the guy next to you screwing up or making a bad pass. You don't seem to understand that items are the wildcard in SSBM and as such, they make the game REAL. Whatever man, you can say all you want on a stupid Internet forum because we all know you won't get your ass over to VB to play Chromer; hell, you won't move your asses from your comfy little seat in your home. Do I care? Nope, because I know that your ethics in terms of competition are complete bull****, you are a complete moron unable to comprehend something that is completely laid out for you, or you are a pathetic nerd trying to prove his faltering point with nothing to base his arguments off of.

Doesn't matter to me. It's just frustrating when I say something and people don't understand it, even if I lay it all out for you to read. And then you don't read it. Oh ****ing boy.

O_o

[Squeek]

Originally Posted by slickskater29

@squeek and everyone else, this is about SSBM, because the rules are chaged for the better of the game, does not mean that every game does that.

Glad you acknowledge that this game is the only one being tampered with and that no other tourney-goers for other games do this AT ALL.

I'm also really glad I will never play against you guys in Brawl. I can just see it now "zomg item whore you only one cuz of that pokeball".

Yeah... and you WOULDN'T have won because of the pokeball? If a pokeball is killing you, then wouldn't I have had to have needed some skill in order to kill you all the other times? Or to damage you at all? You don't go flying off the stage at 0% unless it's a very specific and rare encounter.

[Chromer]

Originally Posted by masterhickle

So you're saying that turning items on can even further unbalance the game. Our argument has just strengthened, yours has weakened.

Wrong. I was saying according to your logic, items off are just as bad as items on seeing how it can still be random in a match. Your argument is going nowhere now.

[Squeek]

So, do you guys open up the Gamecube and check it? Sometimes there might be a chip out of place or something, you know? It's possible!

So, do you guys check the controllers before starting? Someone can modify the controller to tilt slightly more and make you run faster. Not only is this possible, but I have one controller like this.

So, do you guys ban all of the stages where things happen that MIGHT make you screw up because you don't know how to pay attention to anything other than wavedashing to your opponent and close-range fighting? 'cuz I've heard you don't play levels like Corneria or Poke Floats.

So do you guys change the room temperature around the players to make sure there's no half-degree difference that would cause one player to sweat slightly more than the other and miss a button?

OH MY GOD HE SWEATED TOO MUCH AND LOST THE MATCH LET'S HAVE A RE-MATCH WHO THE CRAP WAS MONITORING THE THERMOSTAT.

Seriously, your argument is as watertight as a sieve. You cannot remove the random factor from a competition, and it still may be the difference between a win and a loss. Removing items just satisfies your egos.

[Hylian]

I will edit this later but for now I can point out your BS.

ChuDat, Tope, Doug, O-NO, and more

Right. So you travel all across the counrty playing? Because Tope lives on the East Coast, Chu Lives on the east coast but is on the west coast all the time and apparently is from the south. The Doug is from europe and plays with DBR in cali..I dont know where he stays now.

So who else do you play with? I find it funny that you play with people from different sides of the US all the time.

On another note, I do actually play with pros and know what I am talking about. I even have videos online of myself...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8ZErcqgcTk

See? Right there.

What proof do you have of your selfproclaimed skill? In fact I will ask Tope if he even knows who you are and if you are any good on the 12th. Because I will be playing with him then. On second thought..I will just ask him now. I doubt I will get a reply till tomorrow as he is probably asleep but I will know then at least.

[Squeek]

I don't know about Chromer, but I don't have to play against other "pros" (how you can be a professional in video games in the first place is beyond me) to prove my worth in a game.

290 Trophies. The game is 100% complete. That was when I stopped playing. The game basically told me "congratulations! Throughout your many hours of playing, you've mastered this game! Now go play other games! Believe it or not, there are better games out there than Super Smash Brothers! In fact, SSBM doesn't even rank on the top 10 video games list! What a shocker!"

Or it said I got all 290 trophies. I forget which one.

ps - SSBM is ranked 183rd on the list of top games made in the past 10 years.

[devonin]

On another note, I do actually play with pros and know what I am talking about. I even have videos online of myself...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8ZErcqgcTk

See? Right there.

What proof do you have of your selfproclaimed skill?

-You- have videos of yourself online? So you are the account GravityAB? Who just put that video of "you playing a pro" online yesterday?

Check out how good I am at SSBM:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlC0wlZ0C4w

I must be telling the truth, because I said so on the internet.

[Hylian]

Originally Posted by Squeek

I don't know about Chromer, but I don't have to play against other "pros" (how you can be a professional in video games in the first place is beyond me) to prove my worth in a game.

290 Trophies. The game is 100% complete. That was when I stopped playing. The game basically told me "congratulations! Throughout your many hours of playing, you've mastered this game! Now go play other games! Believe it or not, there are better games out there than Super Smash Brothers! In fact, SSBM doesn't even rank on the top 10 video games list! What a shocker!"

Or it said I got all 290 trophies. I forget which one.

ps - SSBM is ranked 183rd on the list of top games made in the past 10 years.

And what is "The list?"

A list your mother made? You give no resources. How am I expected to believe you with no evidence? I know two places that SSBM ranked High on.

Gamefaqs best game ever competition - 6th place I think.
MLG forums best game ever competition - 1st beating Halo on a Halo forum.
More copies of this game have been sold the almost any other consol game out there. For 6 years it has been a best seller. And I don't even see your point. I'm not telling you to like the game. If I like it thats my buisness.

Also, some halo players have MILLION dollar contracts with MLG. How is that not professional gaming? Look at Korea. They are highly centerend around competitve gaming. Especially Starcraft. They even have a starcraft channel on T.V. Just because the community you are from doesn't view gaming as something that can be done competitvly..that does not change facts.

[Hylian]

Originally Posted by devonin

-You- have videos of yourself online? So you are the account GravityAB? Who just put that video of "you playing a pro" online yesterday?

Check out how good I am at SSBM:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlC0wlZ0C4w

I must be telling the truth, because I said so on the internet.

My name is Hylian and no Im not gravity that is the person im playing idot. And he is not a pro. I never said I had videos of me playing pros. Though I do have many more videos and tournament videos if you do not believe me. You could also go on smashboards and ask there as I am pretty well known. I have proof. I live not even 30 minutes away from one of the best pros in the USA.

Edit: sorry for the double post.

And it says my name in the youtube title. The video you uploaded was KoreanDJ vs Mewtwoking. That was a pretty stupid example considering I am the only Hylian in the smash community. OTher Hylians are Hylian_Lord..and thats about it.





Edit: Chromer has no idea what he is talking about and here is proof:

Also about Peach, you are an idiot. Peach has the highest DI (Directional Influence) in the entire game making her the hardest character in the game to kill unless over 100% or just really good. Also, pulling out a stitch face once every 2-3 matches? That's a bull**** lie because one of my friends main Peach and he pulls out a stitch face every match. You obviously have no idea what you are talking homeslice.

Also, I stopped using items in the game when I found out that tournaments didn't use items that much except for the few tournaments that did have items on. You said that I have no idea what I'm saying anymore? I basically said that since I play with these people, I know I have skill enough to put $200 of my own money in a money match against you. Since you are probably too young to have that kind of money lying around and probably too scared to actually accept, I'll leave it at that. When you actually grow up and get the money and balls to accept, come talk to me.

Overall, your argument is just plain retarded. You come in here with you and your gay friends and try to impose upon us your idea that items make the game unbalanced? I only have one thing to say to you. Actually, you can say it to yourself.

First of all chromer. If I go play you I want it to be much more then $200. How about $1000. Because I am positive you suck horribly at this game from the information you have been giving.

About peach, When you say peach has the highest DI in the game you obviously don't know what you are talking about. You don't even know what DI is or how it works. DI affects all characters the same way. Depending on what direction you are holding the control stick while DIing your trajectory will be slowed down or changed. There is also dual stick DI and 3 point DI. Peach is a very easy character to kill off the top. She is one of the lightest characters and characters like fox and marth have no problem killing her easily. Peach is one of the best characters in the game but she is definitly not the hardest to kill. That would be Samus.

And I have already pointed out that you do not play with Chu or tope or doug unless you make trips between california and the upper east coast constantly.

Edit again"

Here is what DI is and if you read chromers post he has no idea what he is talking about:



DIing is basically anything you can do when you are taking a hit to affect your trajectory. (I'm not talking about Aerial Control, which has nothing to do with being hit)
DI can be divided in 3 parts : Smash DI (SDI), Automatic Smash DI (ASDI), and Regular DI (I'll keep it at DI)

Good DI will allow you to change your trajectory at high % so that you don't die, tech or wall-tech a lot of things if you're hit near a wall, and gives you means to escape from almost any sort of combo.

Smash DI :

When you take a hit, there are frames of hitlags where you're frozen and stay in place before being sent flying. The number of hitlag frames varies between 2-3 up to around 18 with Samus's Fully Charged Shot, or burner hits in BtT stages.

During those frame, you can move around using Smash DI.
If you smash the Control Stick in one direction, your character will move instantly in that direction. It doesn't go very far, but it can still save your life sometimes.

If the hit is techable, Smash DI can be used to move yourself into a wall or a ceiling and you'll be able to tech. If you miss the tech, you might bounce on the wall/ceiling
However Smash DIing into the ground can't make you tech (it would clearly be broken)

Forbidden Smash DI :

If you are on the ground and are hit by a non-techable move that sends you horizontally or downwards, you won't be able to Smash DI up.
I call this Forbidden Smash DI. It would in fact be broken because you would take the hit airborne, you would land on the ground without any stun.
The developpers saw this and prevented that from happening.
Forbidden Smash DI makes sure you stay stunned on the ground when you're hit by Fox's Aerial Down A, Fox's shine or any other relatively weak hit nailing you into the ground.
(However I've seen CPUs breaking that rule in Adventure mode )

Multiple Smash DIing :

If you are fast with the control stick you can sometimes input several Smash DIs
This is basically what you do when you use the so-called "Quarter-circle DI".

In the Perfect Control Video, there is a clip where a Mario on Jungle Japes takes a Charge Shot from the left, use Smash DI on each frame of hitlag alternating between down-left and up-left, and finally Smash DIs up into a ceiling and wall-tech-jumps there.

Regular DI :

After the hitlag, your character starts flying from the hit.

Regular DI will influence your trajectory, it has been known for more than a year now.
DIing along the same line of the defaut trajectory doesn't affect it at all. What does work and what saves your life at high % is having a DI perpendicular to the defaut trajectory.

Automatic Smash DI :

An Automatic Smash DI takes place there on the 1st frame after the hitlag.
It's automatic because you don't have to smash anything to do it, the game just reads the position of your control stick or C-stick on the last frame of hitlag.
The C-stick outprioritizes the control stick. You can hold 2 different directions, the game will use the C-stick for the ASDI : you can DI one way and ASDI another way.

The ASDI is exactly like Smash DI except that it goes less far, and you don't see it very well because you're sent flying at the same time.
On techable hits, it can make you tech on walls or ceiling just as well.
One very important thing is that you can tech on the floor as well if the ASDI makes you go down on that frame.
The instant ground techs on other moves than Fox's shine all come from this.

ASDI Down, the true Crouch Cancelling effect :

If you're grounded and take a move that sends you upwards but not very fast, ASDIing down'll make you go downwards on that frame. You'll then either bounce/tech if the hit is techable, or just land with no stun.

If you're grounded and take a move that sends you down, if it's untechable, Forbidden Smash DI applies and you'll stay stunned on the ground whatever you try to do (DI doesn't seem to work in those cases, too.)
If it's techable, you'll see a green flash on the ground at the beginning of the hitlag and you'll be sent up. You can try to ASDI down that and you may bounce/tech that hit.

For example, Fox's Aerial Down A sends you downwards and is never techable.
Falco's Aerial Down A sends you downwards and becomes techable at low/middle %
Falco's Phantasm sends you up if you're grounded but sends you down when you're in the air, and it's always techable.
Fox's shine sends you horizontally when you're grounded.

DI on throws and phantom hits :

Most throws don't have any hitlag window, so only Regular DI can be used when you're thrown.
Jigglypuff's forward throw is so far the only exception I know of, it has hitlag and can be DI'd like a regular hit (thanks Magus for this)
Phantom hits doesn't send you anywhere, but you can still use SDI or ASDI when you're taking a Phantom hit.
Phantom hits happen when your hitbox and the move's hitbox are tangent. A very bad idea is to SDI or ASDI into the hitbox of the move while it's still there, because you'll then take the hit like normal.

Crouch Cancelling :

CCing is what happens when you're crouching while taking a hit.
It tremendously reduces the knockback of the move, reduces the hitlag, and the move is weakened so you must be at higher %age to tech it (or it makes the move completely untechable, like Fox's shine)

You have to be crouching to crouch cancel, if you're not crouching you're not crouch cancelling.

Usually you're DIing down with the control stick when you're CCing, which makes you ASDI down on the weakened move, thus makes you land right after the hitlag (or bounce on the ground if you're at high %age) :
CCing weakens the move and ASDI down makes you stay grounded.

Teching :

Teching is simple : In order to tech a hit you have to press L in a 20-frame window before bouncing on a wall/floor/ceiling.
The tricky thing put in by the developpers is that pressing L during the hitlag of a move will prevent you from teching, except if it's the last frame of hitlag and you're bouncing on the next frame or if you're SDIing into the wall and pressing L on the same frame.
That's why in order to tech a hit while you're recovering or in order to ground tech you absolutely have to press L before being hit or have insane precision/reflex.

If you tech on a wall, you can perform a wall jump, with any character. You have to hold up or jump in the first few frames after the tech.

How Smash DI helps edge teching :

When you get hit near the edge, for example by Marth's f-smash, your trajectory don't send you into the wall at all.
At middle %, a simple ASDI towards the stage will make you hit the wall, as long as you aren't sent away too fast. It works just like how ASDIing down makes you stay grounded .

However, at higher %age, this won't be enough. Moreover, the more damage you get from the hit, the longer you'll stay in hitlag before you tech, which means a more difficult timing for pressing L, because those hitlag frames are removed from the 20 frames window for the tech.

Now, if you learn to press L and do a Smash DI around 15-20 frames later, the tech will be guaranteed :
Instead of waiting for hitlag to end and use ASDI to touch the wall, the hitlag will transfer into teching the moment you did the smash DI.
This is very easy : Press L, then slam the stick towards the stage. Regardless of what your opponent is doing, it'll most likely work.

As to what happens afterwards, the moment when you tech doesn't matter, everything will be as if you only teched at the end of the hitlag : you will start moving again at the end of the hitlag and you'll still have invincibility frames then.
I think that using smash DI also makes wall-jumping easier since you have more time (the remaining hitlag frames) to press up on the control stick.

Teching isn't button mashing :

In order to tech, you have to get a precise timing and not resort to button mashing.
Whenever you press L, it enables you to tech in the 20 following frames, but it also prevents you completely from using L to tech again in the following 40 frames.

It's not obvious, but it's very important when you're being comboed.
Has it ever happened to you, when you're being comboed,that you missed a tech even though you pressed L at the right time ?
This is the reason it didn't work. You had pressed L earlier and you didn't wait enough time before pressing L again to tech.
Note that if this happens, you can keep missing techs.

A guaranteed way to miss every tech is to press L too often, like twice per second.

When you're comboing, listening to your opponent's controller can be useful in some cases. Sometimes you know he won't be able to tech the following move of your combo.

Also, L-cancelling involves pressing L so you may want to learn to L-cancel without pushing the shoulder button the whole way (it's unnecesary), or to L-cancel with Z.
Just in case.

How to use DI :

To escape from a combo, use proper Smash DI, ASDI and proper DI. Know what you can do, where you want to go, and how DI affects your trajectory.

To walltech more moves when you're recovering, Smash DI and ASDI towards the wall.

To survive from a powerful move, DI to the perpendicular of your trajectory and preferably upwards, while ASDIing towards the stage with the C-stick.

To ground-tech a hit, DI to the perpendicular of your trajectory and preferably down, while ASDIing down with the C-stick.

IMO CCing should only be used to Crouch Cancel Counter. Why be sent flying when you could shield instead ?

[Chromer]

Originally Posted by Hylian

I will edit this later but for now I can point out your BS.

ChuDat, Tope, Doug, O-NO, and more

Right. So you travel all across the counrty playing? Because Tope lives on the East Coast, Chu Lives on the east coast but is on the west coast all the time and apparently is from the south. The Doug is from europe and plays with DBR in cali..I dont know where he stays now.

So who else do you play with? I find it funny that you play with people from different sides of the US all the time.

On another note, I do actually play with pros and know what I am talking about. I even have videos online of myself...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8ZErcqgcTk

See? Right there.

What proof do you have of your selfproclaimed skill? In fact I will ask Tope if he even knows who you are and if you are any good on the 12th. Because I will be playing with him then. On second thought..I will just ask him now. I doubt I will get a reply till tomorrow as he is probably asleep but I will know then at least.

LOL Ok Let me show you where you are wrong:

1. Tope lives in Richmond. He comes down to Virginia Beach to play with people like O-NO, KitsuneKing, etc. Last time he was here was for a $1000 tourney which he ended up winning with his crew. Don't believe me? Ask him yourself.

2. ChuDat does host his own get togethers which there is a video of said get-together on Youtube but due to your ignorance, 'll let you hunt it down for yourself.

3. Wow, it's called The_Doug can travel places too you know. He came to the same damn tournament Tope came to and faced him in a Sheik ditto match. The_Doug lost to Tope, said bye to everyone and left. Was he embarrassed? He shouldn't have been. Tope is a ****ing God.

4. Only reason I don't have footage of myself is because no one ever thinks to record matches when we play them. Go figure.


Anything else you want to try to dissect Mr. Know-It-All?


Now on to Hylian.

1. Nobody listens to Gamefaqs. Go to 4Chan and the mere mention of Gamefaqs will get you raped so hard, you wouldn't be able to sit down for a week. This is the site that called Metroid Prime a better FPS than Halo, Doom, and Half-Life 2. LOL WUT.

2. Hmm. MLG having a best game competition with SSBM as #1. I'm not even going to even point out that fallacy because if you missed it, you really need to learn how to discern better.

3. Best selling Gamecube game of all time? Yes. Sold over 6 million copies in the world? Yes. More copies of this game sold than any other console game? No and this is where you fail horribly. I like to bring out my friend, the GTA series. Need I say more?

4. If SSBM is so competitive and well know as you have put it, then it should have it's own TV show and everything right?

Not flaming, just pointing out the obvious.