The Current Path of FFR

[DossarLX ODI]

In the drop down menu when you hover over the "FFR the Game" tab on the main site you can just include another website page that lists all the important sticky FAQ threads in the forum rather than just "FFR Standalone Guide". This is really simple and it should already have been done a long time ago.

Also qqwref has amazing ideas and has done so much on Indeed. He really does deserve an admin position here.

Originally Posted by Netjet!

I think having a full-length, available tutorial that covers everything a user needs to know about FFR in its entirety would be really useful. And I do agree that making FFR more appealing to new users would definitely help the game's viability in the future rhythm gaming market and redefining FFR as an independent imitation of DDR/SM.

I actually have FFR Special Mix v2 in the works. It's a tutorial similar to the ancient one but will be better in its explanations.

[Hazelle]

Originally Posted by DossarLX ODI

In the drop down menu when you hover over the "FFR the Game" tab on the main site you can just include another website page that lists all the important sticky FAQ threads in the forum rather than just "FFR Standalone Guide". This is really simple and it should already have been done a long time ago.

Also qqwref has amazing ideas and has done so much on Indeed. He really does deserve an admin position here.

There has to be some incentive to at least reading the FAQ - like 100 credits or something. Otherwise, the newbies are gonna not want to read through.
Even if they skim over the FAQ to get the credits, at least they know where it will be when they actually find themselves needing it.

[justin_ator]

I'll just go ahead and dump my thoughts on what's been said as well~
Not numbered this way for any particular reason, just basically to keep my post organized.

1) I don't feel we need to flood the game with more easy files, nor should we cut beginners off from harder, more challenging files - I think the amount of files that gets added here and there is pretty decent for keeping all the skill levels included. I don't feel we should stop adding easy files, just don't think we need to increase the amount. Also, some people are intrigued by the obstacle harder files provide, and removing access to those for beginners would definitely ruin keeping those people around.

2) Administration/staff needs to be reworked just a tad - I'm not going to rag on our current staff. They do what they can with what they have. The mods work pretty hard to keep things neat and under control. There's just a few things that in my opinion need to change.. we need to have more of a power check in place for administration, because the only admins on the site that haven't abused their power are jimerax (with the exception of his cool stars thingermajig) and bmah, and it can/has lead to several community arguments and problems. I also feel like there should be another SECTION of staff. Hear me out on this. There should be a coder title. They'd be below admins (and maybe even mods still) in power, but would have access to staff chat and other necessary things, ONLY in order to help get shit done that the staff had approved and was talking through with them. It'd SERIOUSLY help move things along, in my opinion. Obvious example of someone that would EASILY go in this category is qqwref. Not going to jump on the qq for admin bandwagon, but I definitely feel that he could do some cool shit to help develop/fix the site/game more. Next thing is by far the biggest one, staff communication. You guys have done a much better job in general of discussing things and keeping in touch, and you have my appreciation for that. In terms of coding projects, and things like that though, a team of developers/coders that are actually ACTIVE and TALKED all the time, could do some amazing stuff for this game. The biggest issues now for changing things on the site is the code being a HUGE mess, and anyone with access to the back end knows I'm not making that up. I've heard it from too many staff already.

3) Use these fuccing amazing profile badges! - Hell, even if they don't unlock anything, make use of them! I made a post in the FFR Suggestions thread with this same info, but I'll say it again: If all the Synthlight songs were removed from levelranks, those that still want to brag about having knocked the AAA's out could do that with a sexy new Legacy songs AAA'd badge. This is just one example, but there are a TON that could be done. It's like the token system without the rewards aside from bragging rights. I don't see any reason not to use it, tbh.

4) Site Organization and accessibility to new-comers - This category is relatively short, because I do believe new members and visitors still see the welcome banner on the home page. Perhaps we could add a few more banners or in-window-pop-ups explaining things, etc for each page. Click the forum button? Loads the forums, and if it's your first time, bam, thing pops up providing links to things like the Introduction thread, Standalone thread, picture dictionary, etc. Click the game button? Loads the game, and if it's your first time, bam, thing pops up providing info on what does what (takes two seconds to make a picture image, and hell I'd be willing to do that even) and how to work the game/remap keys, etc, as well as some links to other stuff.

If I think of more, I'll post another post later.

edit: I agree with another FFR tutorial level, as well as some kind of incentive to reading the FAQ and acknowledging where it's at.

[ryuyasha]

Originally Posted by Poison-

There is a way to search by difficulty on the Velocity engine, you know.

Yes, but is not nearly- >_>

When did that get implemented? Last time I looked there was either no option to sort by difficulty or it was not working so I ignored it. You can sort by lots of things now. How convenient...
You sir have just made my day.

Originally Posted by Pseudo Enigma

For instance, a new person doesn't know where to look for things like the picture dictionary, or the standalone, or even the song list. These things should all be in one place, and yet they are all scattered around the site. Picture Dictionary is in the confusing bowels of the forums, the standalone link is off poking the FFR Radio somewhere in the hidden corners of the site, and the Song List is a letter "S" that I at first assumed was some sort of sound feature.

Maybe below the engine on the actual site we can include some sort of FAQ for newbies?

These things should all be in one place. At least there is a link to the standalone thread on the navbar now, but that is not good enough. Everything relevant should be easily accessible. What engine still has S for the songlist instead of saying 'songs'. I thought that was fixed everywhere. It used to bother me too.

Originally Posted by Netjet!

I think having a full-length, available tutorial that covers everything a user needs to know about FFR in its entirety would be really useful. And I do agree that making FFR more appealing to new users would definitely help the game's viability in the future rhythm gaming market and redefining FFR as an independent imitation of DDR/SM.

Yes, that! There could be a tutorial link in the navbar (edit: Ninja'd by Dossar. Glad you agree), from which people could find the relevant pages such as the picture dictionary.

As for FFR being an imitation of DDR/SM I used to think that, but I have definitely come to think of it as a unique rhythm game. It was only after I fully accepted this that I could play spread instead of index and do not mind hands and quads as much, because I finally got over the notion of comparing the keyboard to a dance pad.

[00Razor00]

lol i dont recall bmah ever abusing powers but ooooooooooooook

[justin_ator]

Eh forgot he was admin, my apologies bmah. glad that's all you decided to complain about from my post I guess

[Frank Munoz]

maybe we can have a "Newbie Mod"
where they just help out nubs and answer questions that need answering by telling them how, what, and directing them to a link that would help them get the answers they need.

Kinda like, noob control so they don't get all confused and start making threads about things that can be found with slight effort.

They can also have an auto msg similar to synth's~ Where they'll be like..

"Hey yo', 2nd to post on yo' noob ass wall haha jkjk roflolmao
If you have any question just comment on my wall or send me a private msg k pce` "

as much work as it is, some people actually need to be treated likea bby before they grow and become stronger

[Emanresu13]

i hate having to unlock anything. i actually like having everything thrown at me and figuring it out on my own. am i a freak?

[Ohaider]

Originally Posted by justin_ator

qqwref

Yes please

Originally Posted by Pseudo Enigma

60c.

You mean 40 haha

[Pseudo Enigma]

Originally Posted by ryuyasha

These things should all be in one place. At least there is a link to the standalone thread on the navbar now, but that is not good enough. Everything relevant should be easily accessible. What engine still has S for the songlist instead of saying 'songs'. I thought that was fixed everywhere. It used to bother me too.

well now that you mention it I think it did get fixed to "songs" I think I have to refresh my brain before bullshitting in another post again.

Even if that Navbar is technically "easy access" it's still a hassle to navigate through the millions of links on it. Face it. There is way too many, and it's overwhelming for newbies, and often times it's overwhelming for my poor little brain.

Back to the FAQ idea, I'm saying on the same page as the game for a reason. If you go to Siglemic's feed on TwitchTV (or whatever the hell it is) there is a convenient FAQ right below it that lists off all the terminology, and all the questions. You don't have to click any links, you don't need to open a tab, all you need to do is scroll down. This is really important, because NO one can miss it this way. It's impossible to miss.

edit: emanresu: the reason we're trying to get some sort of unlock system going (an improved one anyway) is so that the new people have some sort of sense of direction. In essence, linear gameplay.

and yes
I mean 40
suuuuuure, I knew that.

[andy-o24]

I've just opened up the front page, home page, whatever you want to call it, for FFR. Let's take a look at my eye flow. Granted this will vary based on who you are. Monitor is 1920x1080, so prepare screen stretch.

It is not until the 6th item that I find the row where I can access FFR The Game, Forums and the all important FAQ. I'm not trying to suggest rearranging these items, I'm very used to where they all are, I'm just pointing out that it isn't the most intuitive way of accessing the game itself.

Now let's take a look at the forum main page.

This alone is a fairly overwhelming site to behold, especially if a new user has never experienced a forum display. Scroll down, and you may find yourself lost in a sea of text and colored names. Logically, the first subforum a new user would open would be the Newbie Forum. They should recognize that they are in fact new to the site, and it is the first subforum in order.
Inside, they find this:

A pretty nice resource for introductions and getting some of the basics of FFR down assuming they read the stickies. The FAQ only sticks out in the announcement section due to Nois-or-e's green text. This may be the only green on the page, but it is still easy to overlook. And besides, what newbie knows what a "SponCon" is?

Arguably some of the best and most important information regarding the game itself is found in FFR General Talk. I've scrolled down enough so that some of the best resources can be seen, The Official FFR Picture Dictionary, Ingame Song Information, and FFR Multiplayer: Complete Guide and Rules

Assuming newbies know to use these resources to improve their knowledge of FFR, this is a very important forum. Otherwise, without a base knowledge of FFR terminology and mechanics, much of this forum will be lost on them and many concepts in the game itself.

One way to help make this site more newbie friendly would be to make the FAQs a little more noticeable. Have the FAQs full of links to other useful threads, some of which I've mentioned and others that I haven't that are also great resources. I don't know if it is possible to make them mandatory reads, but if the staff made an FAQ pop up like Terms of Use when installing games (what we all just scroll to the bottom, check off we've read, click accept and move on) you have at least exposed new members to these resources whether they use them or not.

As for the game itself, it is constantly expanding. The flow of new songs into the game is always churning along and there has been a fair balance of easier songs tailored to new players and harder songs for the top tier players as well. I agree that more fun, upbeat songs with less notes, and less technical mumbojumbo would be a great addition for the newer members trying to work their way up the leaderboards and around the learning curve. But new players also need a challenge and a slow introduction into the technical patterns that FFR offers to higher level players.

With, I don't know, ~1100+ songs in the game now, there is no need to restrict a player's freedom to play what songs they want. Sometimes just mashing to walls of arrows helps a player refresh their brain of mindblocks and in the case of newer players, helps them see patterns. They can slowly begin to discern and comprehend the masses of arrows and then play lower level songs and not be frustrated by their inability to recognize patterns.

I've heard that this game is more about experience than it is skill, and I have to agree with whoever it was that said that. The longer you stay, generally the better you become, slowly but surely. And that is what we need to accomplish for FFR to continue expanding and tailoring to its new members. We need lower level songs that provide steady difficulty progression but likewise they have to be songs and files players want to play. If we can achieve that balance, I think FFR is on the right track to another 10 years.

-o24

[Pseudo Enigma]

IMO the Picture Dictionary should be moved to FFR Newbies or duplicated there, and a link on the page with the engine.

[i will pwn u]

what about making some files that show patterns for begininers, like the picture dictionary but files instead.. this is very broad maybe making one file that has like 10-15 seconds (maybe the name of the pattern could show up in the background or something) of different types of patterns or like 10 beginer files that have each pattern differently, but just short files that can kinda help the person who has never played.. maybe they would be advised (or required lol) to play them to start playing other files..

*and i know this is kinda off topic of the op but jus an idea aimed at the newbie so they can learn without looking to hard

[Hazelle]

Originally Posted by i will pwn u

what about making some files that show patterns for begininers, like the picture dictionary but just with certain types of patterns???

Mmmmmm i like that....

[TC_Halogen]

There's so many things that can be done, but I can't help but feel like arguments will be started at some point if I start being bluntly honest. But whatever, when I give criticism, I always mean for it to be constructive.

1. More staff activity on the forum: there is a respectable amount of staff on FFR, but not too many of them make an active contribution on the forum. Being a moderator doesn't mean you have to -only- moderate the forums; part of the reason that I feel some of the staff are treated so harshly revolves around the fact that very few of them make appearances on the forums when they don't -have- to. That is troubling to me. Issues between staff and users would probably be less heated if they made an attempt to socialize with the userbase in addition to doing their job as unbiased as possible. I also feel like administrators should make it clear about what's going on in the future, and not just hide things within private eyes. It's completely understandable to spring ideas in a private area so that they're adequately developed, but it's a bit ridiculous for users to attempt to run events only for them to be shut down because there was intent to run the same thing by staff later. Also, if you want users to notice that things are going on, it might be a good idea to update the site's changelog (did staff forget/think that all users forgot?).

2. Site rules update: the rules themselves are fine, but the fact that the ban times were removed leave moderators/administrators to use their own discretion in entirety rather than having some guidelines, which is nothing short of ridiculous. Users can't see the times for the punishments they are given, and there will undoubtedly be discrepancies between the way different staff members handle things. In order to even begin to change the way any sort of community works, both sides (users/staff) should be on the same page with how the site works and operates. There would be a lot less conflict between users and staff if users were adhering to publicly viewable rules and their respective discipline times on a list that staff had to follow.

3. Site Progression: overall, site progression has been somewhat constant. Things have been getting added -- the anti-cheat has proven invaluable for the site and actually stopped someone in the official tournament from cheating the way to the top. A new engine is being worked on by Velocity, who has busted out a pretty respectable engine in a short time, and the reception is overall positive. However, there's something apparent to users that have been on here for the past three or four years: the site hasn't changed on an aesthetic level. There were screenshots leaked in the past of a completely redone site, with a lot of awesome new features, but nothing about it has been mentioned in quite some time. I think a site revamp like that will grab a TON of attention.

4. More publicity for events: You might be wondering what I'm talking about here. Events are posted on the front page all of the time and there's usually a fair amount of response to them. The official tournament racked up a ton of users, including a lot of users that have been somewhat dormant/had little presence that will inevitably socialize within the community because of their progress. There's no reason that regular user-run events can't do the same thing. I had an idea about giving users a hidden title as an accredited tournament host. See the spoiler below.

A tournament host can become an accredited by their experience and quality of their tournaments, and can request to have their tournaments become displayed on the front page. An application should be sent to someone who has a LOT of experience running tournaments and is a respectable staff member. The unfortunate thing about this is that the only person that is on staff that has shown to be active and consistent in running successful tournaments is psychoangel691 (and if I recommend her, it'll make me look like I'm biased). I'd recommend Jae, but right off the bat, there were a huge amount of issues that popped up right off the bat. An alternative to this is having a tournament committee - that is, a group of users that have run/helped run "x" amount of successful tournaments.

Things that would fall in line under successful tournaments are:
- timely round changes
- sufficient updating
- good treatment to users following rules, etc.
- if issues arose for any reason, they were due to extenuating/uncontrollable circumstances

...basically, a lot of common sense things. The tournament committee themselves would have to prove to staff that they are capable of choosing hosts that will consistently provide a high-quality tournament experience for users that haven't immersed themselves in the community yet.

5. Return of essential site elements: essentially, restore video chat, fix FFR radio, fix widgets for more exposure; it doesn't have to be a business deal to use widgets, you can gain exposure from smaller artists too and the trade-off is beneficial both ways, as listeners who haven't played the game might at least try, and the artist gains exposure for their music through FFR.

6. Site usability: newer users will probably struggle with using FFR. How do I make cool profiles like these people? How do I see how close I am to veteran status? Things like this can be introduced into a separate site F.A.Q. that new users can be linked to through their introductory private messages. How-to videos are a great way to give newer players a hands-on experience on how to do certain things on the site and honestly, I'd be more than willing to create voice-over guides on how to do things from basic game operation to making your own custom profiles and everything in between. I might not be the most proficient graphic artist or simfile artist or FFR user, but I know enough to be useful to someone who doesn't understand anything.

...eh, that's all I have for now. If I keep going, I'm probably going to get privately called out for being a know-it-all/kiss-ass/etc.

[Pseudo Enigma]

On the song wheel there could be a new genre for it too, "Practice" or something

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by Pseudo Enigma

On the song wheel there could be a new genre for it too, "Practice" or something

Are you referring to isolation files?

Unfortunately, it's not very practical since users have unique trouble spots and the engine doesn't allow for individual portions of the file to be accessed because of the way the game is written.

That could change with the new engine being rewritten in AS3, though.

[Rebirth0]

I absolutely agree to restructuring FFR in some way. Honestly, if anything, this game is getting too LARGE. I think we need to cut 300 - 500 of the weaker simfiles. That certainly doesn't mean all of the retarded rock songs, but I can't be the only one that feels this game is severely bloated. Of course that will probably never happen because hurr synthlight likes history and preservation

Having thousands of files works for stepmania with no ranking system, but with FFR it is an enormous chore to play through everything.

I'd be all for creating some sort of story for FFR and have it be structured a bit like Guitar Hero. And this could certainly be a REAL story of real events that happened, related to this community and its simfile artists. That is something that I could see hold 20 or so files in each "setlist" with MANY more lists than Guitar Hero ever had. This new game could also be split up into 3 difficulties to account for the 1500 or so songs we have, so we wouldn't have to use EVERY song for one giant game. I'd work on that as much as I made simfiles back in 2006 - 2007

We could have the current game remain as is, and just be the "free play" game for people to play all of the simfiles whenever they wanted, while also creating a completely new FFR game with the story or whatever, and progress, and new stats to go along with that game.

[Netjet!]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

There's so many things that can be done, but I can't help but feel like arguments will be started at some point if I start being bluntly honest. But whatever, when I give criticism, I always mean for it to be constructive.

1. More staff activity on the forum: there is a respectable amount of staff on FFR, but not too many of them make an active contribution on the forum. Being a moderator doesn't mean you have to -only- moderate the forums; part of the reason that I feel some of the staff are treated so harshly revolves around the fact that very few of them make appearances on the forums when they don't -have- to. That is troubling to me. Issues between staff and users would probably be less heated if they made an attempt to socialize with the userbase in addition to doing their job as unbiased as possible. I also feel like administrators should make it clear about what's going on in the future, and not just hide things within private eyes. It's completely understandable to spring ideas in a private area so that they're adequately developed, but it's a bit ridiculous for users to attempt to run events only for them to be shut down because there was intent to run the same thing by staff later. Also, if you want users to notice that things are going on, it might be a good idea to update the site's changelog (did staff forget/think that all users forgot?).

Using the changelog would be good to update everyone on what's up actually, good idea. Cant really comment on the rest of it; what you're saying makes sense and is what should be happening if not already.

2. Site rules update: the rules themselves are fine, but the fact that the ban times were removed leave moderators/administrators to use their own discretion in entirety rather than having some guidelines, which is nothing short of ridiculous. Users can't see the times for the punishments they are given, and there will undoubtedly be discrepancies between the way different staff members handle things. In order to even begin to change the way any sort of community works, both sides (users/staff) should be on the same page with how the site works and operates. There would be a lot less conflict between users and staff if users were adhering to publicly viewable rules and their respective discipline times on a list that staff had to follow.

Well I'm pretty sure the old ban lengths in the rules announcement were removed for the same reason - people arguing. I can't 100% remember why, but I remember all the staff agreed that it was getting way too strict for the rest of the users, and that all thats really needed is a relaxed set of guidelines warning users not to break the rules (where the rules are still listed, just not ban lengths). However I know that recently there's been drama about ban and ban lengths, so bringing it up again wouldn't be a bad idea...

3. Site Progression: overall, site progression has been somewhat constant. Things have been getting added -- the anti-cheat has proven invaluable for the site and actually stopped someone in the official tournament from cheating the way to the top. A new engine is being worked on by Velocity, who has busted out a pretty respectable engine in a short time, and the reception is overall positive. However, there's something apparent to users that have been on here for the past three or four years: the site hasn't changed on an aesthetic level. There were screenshots leaked in the past of a completely redone site, with a lot of awesome new features, but nothing about it has been mentioned in quite some time. I think a site revamp like that will grab a TON of attention.

I agree 100%, and I'm just going to say this - all the staff does too. And as I've seen attention hasn't been drawn away from progression of the site, so don't think its always going to be the same.

4. More publicity for events: You might be wondering what I'm talking about here. Events are posted on the front page all of the time and there's usually a fair amount of response to them. The official tournament racked up a ton of users, including a lot of users that have been somewhat dormant/had little presence that will inevitably socialize within the community because of their progress. There's no reason that regular user-run events can't do the same thing. I had an idea about giving users a hidden title as an accredited tournament host. See the spoiler below.

A tournament host can become an accredited by their experience and quality of their tournaments, and can request to have their tournaments become displayed on the front page. An application should be sent to someone who has a LOT of experience running tournaments and is a respectable staff member. The unfortunate thing about this is that the only person that is on staff that has shown to be active and consistent in running successful tournaments is psychoangel691 (and if I recommend her, it'll make me look like I'm biased). I'd recommend Jae, but right off the bat, there were a huge amount of issues that popped up right off the bat. An alternative to this is having a tournament committee - that is, a group of users that have run/helped run "x" amount of successful tournaments.

Things that would fall in line under successful tournaments are:
- timely round changes
- sufficient updating
- good treatment to users following rules, etc.
- if issues arose for any reason, they were due to extenuating/uncontrollable circumstances

...basically, a lot of common sense things. The tournament committee themselves would have to prove to staff that they are capable of choosing hosts that will consistently provide a high-quality tournament experience for users that haven't immersed themselves in the community yet.

I think I've seen that tournament idea somewhere... it's a good idea but it'd have to be developed further and the process for choosing people for the role, like you said will need to be checked and re-checked to make sure it would be viable.

5. Return of essential site elements: essentially, restore video chat, fix FFR radio, fix widgets for more exposure; it doesn't have to be a business deal to use widgets, you can gain exposure from smaller artists too and the trade-off is beneficial both ways, as listeners who haven't played the game might at least try, and the artist gains exposure for their music through FFR.

100% agree.

6. Site usability: newer users will probably struggle with using FFR. How do I make cool profiles like these people? How do I see how close I am to veteran status? Things like this can be introduced into a separate site F.A.Q. that new users can be linked to through their introductory private messages. How-to videos are a great way to give newer players a hands-on experience on how to do certain things on the site and honestly, I'd be more than willing to create voice-over guides on how to do things from basic game operation to making your own custom profiles and everything in between. I might not be the most proficient graphic artist or simfile artist or FFR user, but I know enough to be useful to someone who doesn't understand anything.

This kind of goes with the whole site progression point a bit too, but aside from that (as I commented a bit ago) having more FAQs and an organized welcoming system that's easy to navigate/see and use for new users would be extremely beneficial.

[Netjet!]

Originally Posted by Rebirth0

I absolutely agree to restructuring FFR in some way. Honestly, if anything, this game is getting too LARGE. I think we need to cut 300 - 500 of the weaker simfiles. That certainly doesn't mean all of the retarded rock songs, but I can't be the only one that feels this game is severely bloated. Of course that will probably never happen because hurr synthlight likes history and preservation

Not necessarily, but I think it'd be kind of difficult to organize phasing out a large portion of the songs, even if it is needed. Going to take quite a bit of effort to determine which to phase out.