TWG XLIV: RQU Dimensional Disruption!

[DarkManticoreX2]

Re: TWG XLIV: RQU Dimensional Disruption!

I understand how getting rid of wolves helps all of us human/humans. I do think we should at least wait for some type of comformation from DBP thats it is ok to lynch stoic tonight. We don't want to be lynching the X2 guard if thats the dimension we're focusing on.

[talisman]

Re: TWG XLIV: RQU Dimensional Disruption!

well you've put him in a bit of a spot there by saying that... it's not like he's going to come out and say "oh don't lynch stoic he's the x2 guard". And other than that, his opinion is likely to be a bit biased, unless he's x1 guard.

speaking of stoic, I think now would be a fine to time to post convos you might have had with him. This is the only one I had with him... it degrades into a debate about whether or not we need twc for about the majority of it, but the beginning is relevant.

StoicRoivaS (10:53:41 PM): so who are your fantasy picks thus far
stressreliefball (10:54:01 PM): thunder and manticore for x2 thus far
stressreliefball (10:54:12 PM): but that depends on the content in their convos
stressreliefball (10:54:39 PM): thunder more than manticore
StoicRoivaS (10:54:51 PM): yeah, it could be jtwg aquaintence talk
StoicRoivaS (10:55:04 PM): yeah, i'm not sure what set me off on thunder first, but he's pretty much my top
StoicRoivaS (10:55:19 PM): (for x2)
stressreliefball (10:55:35 PM): what set me off was him not being a vet
StoicRoivaS (10:55:40 PM): i think the DBP attack gives us fairly solid ground to construct a newb team for x2
stressreliefball (10:55:41 PM): and playing reactionarily
StoicRoivaS (10:55:53 PM): when so
stressreliefball (10:56:08 PM): you pointed it out yourself I think
stressreliefball (10:56:18 PM): he was in my list day one
stressreliefball (10:56:23 PM): (naturally, everyone was)
StoicRoivaS (10:56:25 PM): oh, yeah, when he only spoke up after you lumped him with zero
stressreliefball (10:56:28 PM): and responded to it rather harshly
StoicRoivaS (10:56:40 PM): and took a bit of offense to it
stressreliefball (10:57:01 PM): yeah just a bit
stressreliefball (10:57:17 PM): pntballa is a wildcard here as well
StoicRoivaS (10:57:35 PM): then he later drops a complete bandwagon vote on FJ when it wasn't really needed at all
StoicRoivaS (10:57:41 PM): (like i think i noted in my post)
stressreliefball (10:57:45 PM): yeah that was a bit odd
stressreliefball (10:57:54 PM): but he did mention that he was suspicious of fiction earlier
stressreliefball (10:58:00 PM): so not completely out of the blue
StoicRoivaS (10:58:24 PM): yeah, but it also had that feeling of "here's to add to the suspicion of him, and i may vote him later if you guys help"
stressreliefball (10:58:38 PM): very true
StoicRoivaS (10:58:52 PM): not sure if someone like him can play that subtly yet, but if he were more of a regular, i certainly would have taken it that way
StoicRoivaS (11:00:14 PM): i'm still a bit peeved that pnt is even around
StoicRoivaS (11:00:33 PM): i honestly don't recall what happened that got him here, and his display last games makes me wonder if he should stay
StoicRoivaS (11:00:57 PM): i think he died in a jTWG and came in as a replacement because it was convenient
stressreliefball (11:01:00 PM): he replaced hans
StoicRoivaS (11:01:38 PM): not this game
StoicRoivaS (11:01:50 PM): in general, when was he exactly ok'ed as a TWGer
stressreliefball (11:01:53 PM): oh
stressreliefball (11:01:57 PM): dunno
StoicRoivaS (11:02:00 PM): precisely
stressreliefball (11:02:03 PM): it's all up to the host anyway now
StoicRoivaS (11:02:13 PM): we're working on that, iggy and i
stressreliefball (11:02:15 PM): the 2 jtwg rule isn't exactly enforced much
StoicRoivaS (11:02:20 PM): not sure if he mentioned it to you or not
stressreliefball (11:02:24 PM): and really isn't needed
StoicRoivaS (11:02:54 PM): the plan is to go with TWC nominations, requiring seconding by another player, then have a vote from all nominated persons, i think
stressreliefball (11:03:21 PM): I don't really think a twc is necessary
stressreliefball (11:03:47 PM): not like it ever really did anything that a host couldn't do
StoicRoivaS (11:03:56 PM): but in the cost/benefit analysis, it would certainly help things along
StoicRoivaS (11:04:19 PM): well, fish kinda had a mess on his hands over signups because certain things weren't cleared up in the best way
stressreliefball (11:04:39 PM): that's because iggy had some idea that he could just arbitrarily ban people
stressreliefball (11:05:21 PM): as opposed to just nominating/suggesting that someone not be allowed in the next game or whatever
StoicRoivaS (11:05:22 PM): chromer?
stressreliefball (11:05:31 PM): and observer and someone else I think
StoicRoivaS (11:05:54 PM): it seems to me his opinion on that was completel warranted though
stressreliefball (11:06:02 PM): it was
StoicRoivaS (11:06:05 PM): which puts fish in the awkward position of upholding it or not
stressreliefball (11:06:14 PM): not that awkward
stressreliefball (11:06:22 PM): fish decides who he wants to play in his game
StoicRoivaS (11:06:33 PM): well, he didn't post saying chromer was not allowed to play until i mentioned it to him
StoicRoivaS (11:06:46 PM): at which pointed he made the edit post saying such
stressreliefball (11:07:00 PM): and really, it wouldn't have been necessary either
stressreliefball (11:07:05 PM): given how he did run signups
stressreliefball (11:07:10 PM): which I thought was great
StoicRoivaS (11:07:35 PM): great until you consider the people that made the effort to be here on time and still didn't get to play
stressreliefball (11:07:46 PM): potential for abuse there of course
StoicRoivaS (11:07:57 PM): it's great to you and i, because we're nearly guarenteed to be let in
StoicRoivaS (11:08:05 PM): but that's not fair to the other people
StoicRoivaS (11:08:21 PM): i believe mamimi was quite unhappy that she didn't get to play
StoicRoivaS (11:08:42 PM): there are other circumstances floating with that, but those are kind of beside the point
StoicRoivaS (11:09:30 PM): if we had a small group to merely 'ok' things in a more official manner, nothing would be ambiguous, and these things wouldn't be so difficult
stressreliefball (11:09:52 PM): this is still only the first time it's happened
StoicRoivaS (11:09:59 PM): ah, but it isn't
stressreliefball (11:10:07 PM): and that was largely due to iggy
StoicRoivaS (11:10:29 PM): it's happened a few times since, and it always gets resolved in some clunky unofficial way like it did now
stressreliefball (11:10:35 PM): when?
StoicRoivaS (11:11:10 PM): there have been a few instances of people deserving bans for performance, but nothing exactly coming out of it
StoicRoivaS (11:11:43 PM): including but not limited to hans' legendary ability to sign up for what, three games now and post maybe 4 times between then
stressreliefball (11:12:11 PM): I still say it's up to the host
StoicRoivaS (11:12:26 PM): the host of the next game, or current game
stressreliefball (11:12:40 PM): hosts decided who gets in their game
StoicRoivaS (11:12:41 PM): what if iggy wants chromer banned and fish doesn't, who wins?
stressreliefball (11:12:53 PM): fish
stressreliefball (11:13:03 PM): bans don't exist
StoicRoivaS (11:13:18 PM): why is htat
StoicRoivaS (11:13:22 PM): that, even
stressreliefball (11:13:32 PM): so iggy can be like "yo, I don't think chromer should be allowed to play, he sucked and someone else could be better"
StoicRoivaS (11:13:43 PM): but he didn't 'suck'
stressreliefball (11:13:44 PM): and fish could be like "ok" or "no I'll give him a second chance"
StoicRoivaS (11:13:46 PM): he didn't play
stressreliefball (11:13:58 PM): same drift
StoicRoivaS (11:14:40 PM): so where's the negative side to having a group of rational people agreeing with/ok'ing these decisions, so that everyone would have a central place to look to
stressreliefball (11:14:45 PM): I think phantom based bans might still be in effect in the posted rules actually
StoicRoivaS (11:15:15 PM): well, no offense, but if you give every power to the host, those rules don't mean squat
stressreliefball (11:15:17 PM): the negative side is that it's got some elitism attached to it and it's unnecessary
StoicRoivaS (11:15:36 PM): unnecessary, yes, but helpful if implemented
stressreliefball (11:15:46 PM): to be fair, the power does truely belong to the players
StoicRoivaS (11:16:08 PM): and the cost of implementing is nearly nothing, aside from the aforementined elitism
stressreliefball (11:16:09 PM): if the players decide that the game sucks and the host blows and is being unfair or whatever, they can stop playing if they want
StoicRoivaS (11:16:34 PM): so what if the players don't want to play with someone like hans
StoicRoivaS (11:16:40 PM): (i.e. this game)
stressreliefball (11:16:44 PM): or
StoicRoivaS (11:16:44 PM): but fish lets it happen
stressreliefball (11:16:50 PM): to bring up a famous example
stressreliefball (11:16:55 PM): if hans doesn't want to play with tass
stressreliefball (11:17:07 PM): because tass was being an ass
stressreliefball (11:17:26 PM): this was a rather interesting story from way back
StoicRoivaS (11:17:44 PM): see, but that's being subjective, i'm talking about concrete situations in which people's actions deserve consequences
stressreliefball (11:17:48 PM): tass was actually banned for a game because the players forced it
StoicRoivaS (11:18:32 PM): tass being egotistical and overbearing isn't exactly the same as a player who repeatedly signups for games and does not play them
stressreliefball (11:18:33 PM): I'm just saying I think that hosts will generally agree with enforcing those consequences
stressreliefball (11:18:53 PM): they will go along with the majority opinion, and that way, the majority of players are happy
stressreliefball (11:19:19 PM): (tass being banned for being egotistical is actually even more extreme than what we're talking about)
StoicRoivaS (11:20:33 PM): i just think we should have a central decision making place in which players and host's can refernce
stressreliefball (11:20:42 PM): well
stressreliefball (11:20:50 PM): if the majority of players agree that a twc is needed
StoicRoivaS (11:20:54 PM): no offense meant to fish, but he had no clue who half of these people were, and he had to go to iggy to see who got to play
stressreliefball (11:20:55 PM): then we can have it
stressreliefball (11:21:14 PM): so first, you ought to first propose whether or not we need it
stressreliefball (11:21:17 PM): then we vote on that
StoicRoivaS (11:21:20 PM): that's all fine and dandy for me and you, but not for mamimi and the others
stressreliefball (11:21:27 PM): what
stressreliefball (11:21:30 PM): they'd get to vote too
stressreliefball (11:21:42 PM): anyone in the usergroup can vote
StoicRoivaS (11:21:43 PM): the fact that fish didn't know half of the players and had to go to iggy to see who got in
StoicRoivaS (11:21:55 PM): i'm talking about fish's game and the signups
stressreliefball (11:21:58 PM): we're having two differnet conversations right now
StoicRoivaS (11:22:01 PM): yes
stressreliefball (11:22:09 PM): I'm just saying that if you want to have twc again
stressreliefball (11:22:17 PM): first have people vote on that
stressreliefball (11:22:24 PM): then do the nominations
stressreliefball (11:22:35 PM): don't just say "ok there's going to be a twc now nominate people"
StoicRoivaS (11:22:37 PM): yes, i saw that, i'm mid-venting still, sorry
StoicRoivaS (11:23:00 PM): well, the only people that ever had seemed to even slightly oppose it were you and afro
stressreliefball (11:23:10 PM): well you never know
StoicRoivaS (11:23:13 PM): but that was before the influx of new players
stressreliefball (11:23:18 PM): always best to put it up for a vote
stressreliefball (11:23:23 PM): then you can say you did it right
StoicRoivaS (11:23:52 PM): i see your logic, i just look at it as cost vs benefit, and yes, it isn't needed, but the benefits outweigh the costs
stressreliefball (11:24:01 PM): well go ahead and propose it
stressreliefball (11:24:13 PM): then everyone can debate it and vote for it and whatnot
StoicRoivaS (11:24:13 PM): if $5 were free, 99% of people would take it
StoicRoivaS (11:24:38 PM): i may do that
StoicRoivaS (11:25:06 PM): and feel free to paraphrase this conversation there as i'm sure you will, the point is more than valid
stressreliefball (11:25:17 PM): oh I will don't worry
StoicRoivaS (11:25:30 PM): we can always count on you
StoicRoivaS (11:25:45 PM): would you object to being in it, should you be nominated?
StoicRoivaS (11:26:07 PM): because your name will no doubt come up should people agree
stressreliefball (11:26:07 PM): dunno I'd have to think about it
stressreliefball (11:26:10 PM): probably not
stressreliefball (11:26:18 PM): but let's take it one step at a time
StoicRoivaS (11:26:19 PM): not object or not join
stressreliefball (11:26:22 PM): not object
stressreliefball (11:26:43 PM): you and iggy aren't the only powerthirsty ones out there
StoicRoivaS (11:26:56 PM): i could care less if i'm on it, really
StoicRoivaS (11:27:04 PM): i'm more of the justice-hungry type
StoicRoivaS (11:27:23 PM): and i can't stand for people to ruin the fun for everyone by signing up and doing nothing
StoicRoivaS (11:28:03 PM): to be honest it baffles me how hans checks the thread just often enough to hit nearly every game signup on time, yet never plays the game
StoicRoivaS (11:29:07 PM): and given the choice he'd be gone from the user group a few games ago, but we have no one else who cares enough to make these choices, it's just the same few people complaining in post game that XYZ didn't do squat and the humans/wolves lost/almost lost because of it
StoicRoivaS (11:30:52 PM): my personal suggestion was the restricted signup list, like i recommended to DBP a few games back when he hosted, have a black-balled list of players that are only allowed to signup a few hours after the second sign-up slot opens, if the game isn't full and if they care enough to check, they're in, otherwise, they aren't, somewhat like a ban, but gives the people the choice to improve
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[talisman]

Re: TWG XLIV: RQU Dimensional Disruption!

btw, for those who just scrolled past that, the only relevant info you can get from it is that thunder is likely NOT an x1 wolf.

[X3R0H0UR]

Re: TWG XLIV: RQU Dimensional Disruption!

i have a distinct feeling thunder and manticore are tied together, not just from jTWG but this game

[DarkManticoreX2]

Re: TWG XLIV: RQU Dimensional Disruption!

i have a distinct feeling thunder and manticore are tied together, not just from jTWG but this game

Hmmmm. Would that be from the 7th time I said "Yeah, me and thunder have been working together for most of this game" or the 8th?

[rioting]

Re: TWG XLIV: RQU Dimensional Disruption!

First off stoic. Haven't talked to him this game but based on his activity, his being a wolf is certainly within the realm of possibilty.

I know a couple people have mentioned manti and thunder as X2 wolves. I was actually talking with flaw (or DBP...or both?) recently about just that. I didn't really see them being connected too strongly however I did come to the conclusion that they each look like wolves. I'll discuss this more when X2 rolls around again.

[flawofhumanity]

Re: TWG XLIV: RQU Dimensional Disruption!

Stoic, Because I agree with the idea that a confirmed X1 wolf is better than a possible X2 wolf.

[talisman]

Re: TWG XLIV: RQU Dimensional Disruption!

hell rioting, discuss it now. What does it matter when it's discussed?

the convo that manticore provided to dbp (per what he said in the chat) between manticore and thunder will prove whether or not they are connected, although not necessarily if one or both are wolves. I think it would be educational for us to possibly see that at some time.

Also, if anyone else talked with stoic, now would be grand time to see what might be in those convos. Same goes for pntballa.

[DarkManticoreX2]

Re: TWG XLIV: RQU Dimensional Disruption!

hell rioting, discuss it now. What does it matter when it's discussed?

the convo that manticore provided to dbp (per what he said in the chat) between manticore and thunder will prove whether or not they are connected, although not necessarily if one or both are wolves. I think it would be educational for us to possibly see that at some time.

Also, if anyone else talked with stoic, now would be grand time to see what might be in those convos. Same goes for pntballa.

I provided every convo I had had with thunder to that point in time. I would be glad to share that with others to proove me and thunder aren't wolves. hit me up with an IM sometime later on tommorow. I have work till 5:30 on saturday, and Im hitting the sack now.

[talisman]

Re: TWG XLIV: RQU Dimensional Disruption!

for the record, I will be gone until sunday afternoon (water polo tourney). don't do anything crazy.

[Kilgamayan]

Re: TWG XLIV: RQU Dimensional Disruption!

o

Stoic

2 away from insta by my count.

[Stella!]

Re: TWG XLIV: RQU Dimensional Disruption!

Stoic. I just knew it. >=(

[DiscoBobbyPARANOiA]

Re: TWG XLIV: RQU Dimensional Disruption!

StoicRoivaS is not the X2 guard, and I suppose there's no reason for me not to help you guys. (The lynch won't turn around in favor of my x2 suspicions now anyways, so no point in trying)

[DiscoBobbyPARANOiA]

Re: TWG XLIV: RQU Dimensional Disruption!

o so hey didn't realize tps is playing this game. That's fun, one post for 17 pages. If he doesn't get replaced I'm cracking some skulls.

[rioting]

Re: TWG XLIV: RQU Dimensional Disruption!

Looks like insta @ 7 on stoic.

I don't have much time now, but a few words on DarkManticoreX2. You know he's got some kind of vested interest in X2 -- just look at his name! No way he's not a wolf.

Seriously though, he really stood out to me as a wolf with his vote on pntballa. Sure it was the thing to do and everybody was doing it, but he was a little late to the bandwagon. His post in which he voted was very wolfy. The other stuff I saw before that, I'll address when I've got some more time.