Interesting indeed - Page 2

Anticrombie0909 · 12-9-2003, 03:30 PM

Well, here's how I interpeted the text. Yes, Cenright, you may be right, probably are, in fact, and less than 1 planet in every 10,000 supports life. However, under the assumption that the Universe is infinite, that would mean that there are an infinite amount of planets, and therefore an infinite amount of planets that support life.

QreepyBORIS · 12-9-2003, 05:31 PM

Except infinity isnt a number, and you should not treat it as one.

You cant divide by it. I mean, try it: Infinty divided by infinity IS FUCKING INFINITY STILL.

Therefore, an infinite number of wordls are inhabited, and an infinite amount of organisms exist.

Or maybe fewer.

VxDx · 12-9-2003, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QreepyBORIS

You cant divide by it. I mean, try it: Infinty divided by infinity IS #$#ing INFINITY STILL.

infinity divided by infinity is not necessarily infinity, but is rather dependant on the context from which it is derived.

scorpio1690 · 12-9-2003, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cenright

The commoness yet uniqueness of water makes it #1. It is embedded into physics itself. Let's pretend that there is another substace that works like water.

If there was, we would see it ON EARTH because of its commoness. The other galaxies still have to follow the "Universal Laws of Physics" There can be variation in the variables, but they can NOT break the rules, just as our system can NOT break the rules.

This means that although their "habitable life conditions" might be completely different, they still have to follow physics, and there must be a basic chemical of life.

That chemical for US is water. The formation of water is a basic process that is easily done by the universe itself (in habitable conditions of course).

There are only a certain amount of different atoms on the periodic table. These only make compounds a certain way. The life chemical has to be one of simplicity or it defeats its own purpose. THERE ARE NO "DIFFERENT PERIODIC TABLES FOR DIFFERENT GALAXIES".

There might be a few compounds that are used less or more, but Water is the same whether it is here or anywhere else. It is made from the same UNIVERSAL atoms. And therefore, there is no substitute

I need some powdered water where all I have to do is wadd water.... That'd be sweet...

MWGwyn · 12-9-2003, 06:09 PM

I just finished my collection an hour ago, sadly I got the trilogy of four, before relizing that there is a five set one.

makaveli121212 · 12-9-2003, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VxDx

Quote:

Originally Posted by QreepyBORIS

You cant divide by it. I mean, try it: Infinty divided by infinity IS #$#ing INFINITY STILL.

infinity divided by infinity is not necessarily infinity, but is rather dependant on the context from which it is derived.

very true thanks to our pal L'Hospital (Lopeytall...its french)...good old AP calc and the stupid things we do...dividing infinity by 0 and by infinity and 0 by 0...point is infinity divided by infinty can be any number...check L'Hospital if you donr believe me

dontcareaboutmyid · 12-9-2003, 06:54 PM

hehe you're all figments of my imagination.

**Cenright** · 12-9-2003, 07:07 PM

Correct Anticrombie. Yet if the creation of life is still on a time frame. Let me explain.

It all starts with the big bang. All the mass which later forms into galaxies and stars and planets comes from one explosion, all galaxies are flying away from each other (which has been proven by Red and Blue shift). The explosion would create a massive gravity well, so... all galaxies would eventually slow down from going away from each other, stop, and then start getting pulled back.
This is only if the BIG BANG actually started it.

If there was a big bang, It seems you would have to have a finite amount of mass in the beginning, and therefore a finite amount of planets.(see lined section for the argument flaw.)

This means that if it does in fact come back together, it starts the process all over. This means that our infinite amount of time for our "life odds" to set in and produce life is broken up by finite amount of time. This means that with our long odds, it might have taken a few cycles of the big bang just to produce us. It might only happen every few thousand big bangs. Maybe that life is produced only every few big bangs. (Big Bang might be more than a few tri/quad/pentillion years or more.)

IF there was an infinite amount of space and planets, There would be a near infinite amount of distance between life-seed planets. Since we don't have an infinite amount of time to find them, there is almost an infinitely small chance that we will find any others.

_______________________________________________________
WHAT MESSES THE AGRUMENT UP AND PATCHES A FEW THINGS UP
For the big bang explosion:
(The Problem)
The main problem with my argument is that you can fit an infinite amount of mass in an infinite amount of space. And therefore have an infinite amount of energy to fuel the infinite explosion.

The infinite explosion would have caused an infinately large gravity well which would have cause an infinitely strong pull which would have equalized the infinitely strong shove outward, meaning the mass would have stop to stop at one time soon and get pulled back in. This would take time for the "explosion push" to be counteracted. It happened before the gravity well happened, giving it a head start, but the REaction would finally pull it back, even if it was moving away.

(The Fix)
The Infinite explosion happened for a finite amount of time. The infinite gravity well is happening for a longer amount of finite time. This means that the gravity well WILL over come the explosion force. Going by equal energy amounts, the gravity well should run out just as the mass all comes back together.
____________________________________________

Then comes the bible.
(Don't worry. I'm leaving it out of this debate. This is a science debate.)

Anticrombie0909 · 12-9-2003, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Then comes the bible.
(Don't worry. I'm leaving it out of this debate. This is a science debate.)

Thank you, for the love of...uh, someone. By the time that was finished I'd be banned from FFR and have about 10,000 angry priests and rabbis beating a path to my door.

And you really explained that very well, btw. This is very interesting so far. And so far, not one flame (amazing, innit?)

makaveli121212 · 12-9-2003, 07:56 PM

Cen, life wasnt produced from the big bang...i dont see why the big bang needs a finite amount of mass...i dont believe there are a finite number of planets...it cannot be, even if space goes on forever, which cant be proven, there is no way there are an infinite number of planets...think about it...i mean cen's arguement proves mine, infinte energy, infinte mass, infinte time...infinty does not even exist, so nothing pertaining to it can

**Cenright** · 12-9-2003, 08:05 PM

Addressing the Crowd:
Sounds confusing doesn't it people? Let me put out on the table that the human mind (in its current state) can not fully even comprehend the full concept of infinity.

EXAMPLE
If time was infinite, then it would have to go back an infinite amount of time. This means that not only is time going on forever in the future, it is going on backwards through the past further and further because there is no beginning and no beginning to ever stop time from going progressing backwards further and further.

THINK ABOUT THAT FOR A WHILE.

makaveli121212 · 12-9-2003, 08:09 PM

i already did think about that, it isnt that humans cannot comprend infinty though, it is just non-existent and not possible

Lupin_the_3rd · 12-9-2003, 08:10 PM

or how about the fact that we think we know everything there is to know about the world around us... that's what was thought by scientists at the turn of the 19th century...

what we know today as fact could actually be a pile of bullshit

just look back a couple hundred years, see what they thought about our world

now imagine a couple hundred years from now...everything thought implausible could be a reality and so on...

what I'm trying to say is, as far as we know, we could all be wrong

makaveli121212 · 12-9-2003, 08:17 PM

now that is the most intelligent thing i have heard you say in a long time...kudos...it's is obvious we dont know everything, however, many things we can now prove by facts; whereas in the past only 'theories' have been proven to be wrong...are facts are not wrong, but are theories may be...good point there lupin...one theory that could change the way we think is String Theory, check that out if you guys hadnt already

Lupin_the_3rd · 12-9-2003, 08:21 PM

but could these facts be caused by a lucky string of favorable variables not known to us that affect our physics and chemistry laws and so on..(i'm not saying you're wrong)

**Cenright** · 12-9-2003, 08:26 PM

The concept of infinity does exist. If it didn't, none of Calculus would exist because of the limits you do at the very beginning (or the end of Pre-Calc). The concept of infinity is still there; it still exists. We just can't fully comprehend it.

Time keeps going. No matter what, time keeps going.

-Edit-
Then again, time is relative to each and every person. Does that mean that if no-one existed that time would not exixt?

I feel this is a relevant question:
If a tree falls in the woods and no-one is around to hear it, did it really make a sound?

Lupin_the_3rd · 12-9-2003, 08:27 PM

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS TIME, IT IS A BENCHMARK MADE BY HUMANS TO DESCRIBE THINGS

Anticrombie0909 · 12-9-2003, 08:28 PM

Yeah. Its hard to conceptualize something so broad and abstract, but think about it logically. Start with something easy, like counting. You can count to 10, to 100, to a googleplex. Theoretically, you could count to infinity, because there's no logical reason for there not to be an infinite number of 'things'.

makaveli121212 · 12-9-2003, 08:29 PM

infinty exists theoretically, like in math, but in reality, with mass, and time, and what-have-you, and infinte quanity of something cannot exist

Lupin_the_3rd · 12-9-2003, 08:34 PM

except for the CONCEPT (seeing how time doesn't exist) of time, that will continue to go on forever, you don't need somebody saying, yeah time is still going...time is infinite, yet time is not real, so yeah you're right...infinity is theoretical, not tangible

12-9-2003, 05:31 PM	#22
QreepyBORIS FFR Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: It is a mystery. Age: 33 Posts: 7,454	Except infinity isnt a number, and you should not treat it as one. You cant divide by it. I mean, try it: Infinty divided by infinity IS FUCKING INFINITY STILL. Therefore, an infinite number of wordls are inhabited, and an infinite amount of organisms exist. Or maybe fewer. __________________ Signature subject to change. THE ZERRRRRG.

12-9-2003, 06:09 PM	#25
MWGwyn FFR Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Newfoundland Posts: 55	I just finished my collection an hour ago, sadly I got the trilogy of four, before relizing that there is a five set one. __________________ It\'s not the size of the wand that counts, it\'s the magic in the stick!

12-9-2003, 06:54 PM	#27
dontcareaboutmyid FFR Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Wisconsin, Close to Canada Age: 37 Posts: 2,103	hehe you're all figments of my imagination. __________________ Theory of Quantum Fetish Mechanics

12-9-2003, 07:07 PM	#28
Cenright You thought I was a GUY?! Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Beaumont (A town with 25 times fewer people than this site) Age: 37 Posts: 3,139	Correct Anticrombie. Yet if the creation of life is still on a time frame. Let me explain. It all starts with the big bang. All the mass which later forms into galaxies and stars and planets comes from one explosion, all galaxies are flying away from each other (which has been proven by Red and Blue shift). The explosion would create a massive gravity well, so... all galaxies would eventually slow down from going away from each other, stop, and then start getting pulled back. This is only if the BIG BANG actually started it. If there was a big bang, It seems you would have to have a finite amount of mass in the beginning, and therefore a finite amount of planets.(see lined section for the argument flaw.) This means that if it does in fact come back together, it starts the process all over. This means that our infinite amount of time for our "life odds" to set in and produce life is broken up by finite amount of time. This means that with our long odds, it might have taken a few cycles of the big bang just to produce us. It might only happen every few thousand big bangs. Maybe that life is produced only every few big bangs. (Big Bang might be more than a few tri/quad/pentillion years or more.) IF there was an infinite amount of space and planets, There would be a near infinite amount of distance between life-seed planets. Since we don't have an infinite amount of time to find them, there is almost an infinitely small chance that we will find any others. _______________________________________________________ WHAT MESSES THE AGRUMENT UP AND PATCHES A FEW THINGS UP For the big bang explosion: (The Problem) The main problem with my argument is that you can fit an infinite amount of mass in an infinite amount of space. And therefore have an infinite amount of energy to fuel the infinite explosion. The infinite explosion would have caused an infinately large gravity well which would have cause an infinitely strong pull which would have equalized the infinitely strong shove outward, meaning the mass would have stop to stop at one time soon and get pulled back in. This would take time for the "explosion push" to be counteracted. It happened before the gravity well happened, giving it a head start, but the REaction would finally pull it back, even if it was moving away. (The Fix) The Infinite explosion happened for a finite amount of time. The infinite gravity well is happening for a longer amount of finite time. This means that the gravity well WILL over come the explosion force. Going by equal energy amounts, the gravity well should run out just as the mass all comes back together. ____________________________________________ Then comes the bible. (Don't worry. I'm leaving it out of this debate. This is a science debate.) __________________ http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...Cube_in_55.mpg

12-9-2003, 08:05 PM	#31
Cenright You thought I was a GUY?! Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Beaumont (A town with 25 times fewer people than this site) Age: 37 Posts: 3,139	Addressing the Crowd: Sounds confusing doesn't it people? Let me put out on the table that the human mind (in its current state) can not fully even comprehend the full concept of infinity. EXAMPLE If time was infinite, then it would have to go back an infinite amount of time. This means that not only is time going on forever in the future, it is going on backwards through the past further and further because there is no beginning and no beginning to ever stop time from going progressing backwards further and further. THINK ABOUT THAT FOR A WHILE. __________________ http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...Cube_in_55.mpg

12-9-2003, 03:30 PM	#21
Anticrombie0909 FFR Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4,683	Well, here's how I interpeted the text. Yes, Cenright, you may be right, probably are, in fact, and less than 1 planet in every 10,000 supports life. However, under the assumption that the Universe is infinite, that would mean that there are an infinite amount of planets, and therefore an infinite amount of planets that support life.

12-9-2003, 08:10 PM	#33
Lupin_the_3rd FFR Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 2,665	or how about the fact that we think we know everything there is to know about the world around us... that's what was thought by scientists at the turn of the 19th century... what we know today as fact could actually be a pile of bullshit just look back a couple hundred years, see what they thought about our world now imagine a couple hundred years from now...everything thought implausible could be a reality and so on... what I'm trying to say is, as far as we know, we could all be wrong

12-9-2003, 08:21 PM	#35
Lupin_the_3rd FFR Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 2,665	but could these facts be caused by a lucky string of favorable variables not known to us that affect our physics and chemistry laws and so on..(i'm not saying you're wrong)

12-9-2003, 08:26 PM	#36
Cenright You thought I was a GUY?! Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Beaumont (A town with 25 times fewer people than this site) Age: 37 Posts: 3,139	The concept of infinity does exist. If it didn't, none of Calculus would exist because of the limits you do at the very beginning (or the end of Pre-Calc). The concept of infinity is still there; it still exists. We just can't fully comprehend it. Time keeps going. No matter what, time keeps going. -Edit- Then again, time is relative to each and every person. Does that mean that if no-one existed that time would not exixt? I feel this is a relevant question: If a tree falls in the woods and no-one is around to hear it, did it really make a sound? __________________ http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...Cube_in_55.mpg

12-9-2003, 08:27 PM	#37
Lupin_the_3rd FFR Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 2,665	THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS TIME, IT IS A BENCHMARK MADE BY HUMANS TO DESCRIBE THINGS

12-9-2003, 08:28 PM	#38
Anticrombie0909 FFR Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4,683	Yeah. Its hard to conceptualize something so broad and abstract, but think about it logically. Start with something easy, like counting. You can count to 10, to 100, to a googleplex. Theoretically, you could count to infinity, because there's no logical reason for there not to be an infinite number of 'things'.

12-9-2003, 08:34 PM	#40
Lupin_the_3rd FFR Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 2,665	except for the CONCEPT (seeing how time doesn't exist) of time, that will continue to go on forever, you don't need somebody saying, yeah time is still going...time is infinite, yet time is not real, so yeah you're right...infinity is theoretical, not tangible

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