Howard Dean - Page 2

Anonymous · 01-29-2004, 04:34 AM

ok deathstar grow up.. second of all. Bush is a complete idiot. I think he doesnt deserve to lead the united states for a second term. He couldnt catch osama so he turned the peoples attention to saddam. there is no proof of weapons of (this is the key word) MASS destruction. no biochemical warefar. no nuclear bombs were found. the country is just to fucking poor , and saddam is greedy. so saddam probably just said "why spend billions making weapons when i can keep it and live nicely". Bush used saddam to take america's mind off the fact that they couldnt find osama. Also he invaded iraq for thier oil. americans cant defend it. 2 weeks after the war was over , the united states asked the UN if they could control the use of iraqie oil... they used some dumbshit excuse saying they will use it to rebuild iraq. so far i havent seen any rebuilding anywhere. And the economy. Before bush became president , the canadian dollar was at 70 cents to the US dollar. Now it frequently reaches 80 cents (which is A LOT). The US is falling further in debt. Bush also sent men to iraq for fuetal causes. he sacrified LIVES just for oil and to keep the people's minds off osama. so what if he caught saddam. wtf are they going to do with him? talk him to death? Now i know he was an evil man and he tortured people , stole thier money (on of my best friends family were rich iraqies... saddam stole thier fortune and they had to come to canada to escape him) and caused suffering amungst the people of iraq.. he will surely die after going through the world court, but still bush has solved nothing. He cleaned up a united states mess (the US put saddam in power) and took the minds off osama's attack on september 11, as well as gaining a bit of money (and i use the term BIT loosely) in the process.. Do not re-elect that dislexic retard who wants the whole world to be like the USA.

**Jello** · 01-29-2004, 04:35 AM

fucking piece of shit. that last post was me ... synth if you read this why does ffr sign you out automatically after a short period of time of not going through the site?

**Synthlight** · 01-29-2004, 04:42 AM

Jello, The US did not put Saddam in power. Saddam took over IRAQ many years ago with his baath party supporters. Way before the whole Iran thing went down.

Cheers,

Synthlight

Systolic0205 · 01-29-2004, 07:59 AM

Dean is going to out of the running VERY soon.. He lost over $2,000,000 advertising in New Hampshire in the Primaries... and he LOST! He's broke! Kerry is going to get the Democratic ticket, obviously, and public demand wants Bush, though he's a complete idiot who looks like Elian Gonzalez... I'm just glad that Al Sharpden is out of the running.

makaveli121212 · 01-29-2004, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anonymous

ok deathstar grow up.. second of all. Bush is a complete idiot. I think he doesnt deserve to lead the united states for a second term. He couldnt catch osama so he turned the peoples attention to saddam. there is no proof of weapons of (this is the key word) MASS destruction. no biochemical warefar. no nuclear bombs were found. the country is just to #$#ing poor , and saddam is greedy. so saddam probably just said "why spend billions making weapons when i can keep it and live nicely". Bush used saddam to take america's mind off the fact that they couldnt find osama. Also he invaded iraq for thier oil. americans cant defend it. 2 weeks after the war was over , the united states asked the UN if they could control the use of iraqie oil... they used some dumbshit excuse saying they will use it to rebuild iraq. so far i havent seen any rebuilding anywhere. And the economy. Before bush became president , the canadian dollar was at 70 cents to the US dollar. Now it frequently reaches 80 cents (which is A LOT). The US is falling further in debt. Bush also sent men to iraq for fuetal causes. he sacrified LIVES just for oil and to keep the people's minds off osama. so what if he caught saddam. wtf are they going to do with him? talk him to death? Now i know he was an evil man and he tortured people , stole thier money (on of my best friends family were rich iraqies... saddam stole thier fortune and they had to come to canada to escape him) and caused suffering amungst the people of iraq.. he will surely die after going through the world court, but still bush has solved nothing. He cleaned up a united states mess (the US put saddam in power) and took the minds off osama's attack on september 11, as well as gaining a bit of money (and i use the term BIT loosely) in the process.. Do not re-elect that dislexic retard who wants the whole world to be like the USA.

youre dumber than hell and have little clue what you are talking about...yuo think the only reason we went into iraq was because of oil...it was pretty obvious we were going there to find chemical.biological wepaons...yes it is true that we didnt find as many as expected...but is that ush's fault or maybe the weapons inspectors who predicted how many there would be...can you admit that iraq wasnt a threat to the world...can you admit that the iraqi people were not repressed...the fact is the US troops went and saved lives...who knows how many would have died before saddam, was finally taken out of power...btw if you havent seen any rebuilding being done in iraq just ask the people that live there, maybe there hasnt been done physically to rebuild the state, but they have definately rebuilt the peoples' spirit...the US is not falling in debt, the economy took a slight downturn in the last week after a huge couple of months...laslty we have never had or eyes off of osama...we have had troops there the whole time searching for him...now, just a few days ago our soldiers in afghanistan have cornered a number of al-quada troops, and al-quada cannot run for much longer...and if you think that anyone will ever forget about 9/11 and osama you really dont know what youre talking about

Anonymous · 02-1-2004, 09:11 AM

Synth what you speak is true. But it is also true that we supported Saddam Hussein in the Iran/Iraq war. Attached to this post I have a picture of Donald Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam Hussein. There is some merit to Jello's comment, though his exact wording was off. We also supported an organization that Osama bin Laden was part of during the 1980's in efforts to foil the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. So, in essence, we have helped many of our enemies come to power. However, I would also argue that this administration has done a lot of good in taking the threats out of power. 9/11 would have happened no matter who was President, but I believe that the liberal base that Al Gore needed to portray at all times, especially during a possible first term, would have made him act differently and not like a Hawk, which I believe was the appropriate mindset for the time. But that's besides the point, will Dean win the democratic primary, probably not, Kerry has a few advantages. These including the veteran background and his lack of extremist views. But will any of the Democratic candidates win against the incumbent, Dubya, highly unlikely. In matters of politics the incumbent always has the advantage. Bush has free press, free postage, the advantage of being in office already, and the capture of Saddam Hussein under his belt. In addition the economy is on the uprise, and the economy is the number one indicator of whether or not the incumbent will get elected again. Just a few things to keep in mind when debating.

W/R

SpecForces

**Specforces** · 02-1-2004, 09:13 AM

BTW that ^^^^ was me

jewpinthethird · 02-1-2004, 03:56 PM

I dont like bush, but I dont like the democrating candidates either.

The facts are that the world is against the United States. Anyone who does not see that is ignorant. Anyone who ignores the fact that there were millions of protesters of this "Iraqi Freedom" War around the world is just plain dumb. Anyone who ignores that fact that the Bush Administartion lied to the U.N. as well as the people of the United States is arrogant. Anyone who doesnt believe history repeats itself, is doomed to repeat it.

Anticrombie0909 · 02-1-2004, 04:02 PM

Quote:

The facts are that the world is against the United States.

Precisely. We've turned outselves into a militiant, police nation, that feels obligated to control the rest of the world. Why do you think other countries hate us? Our military is more powerful than theirs, and they know it, we have more political influcence than any other single nation, we're rich and dumb, and our country is 200 years old. Of course they hate us. Iraq was not a necessary cause. It may have been a good cause- but it was an unecessary one, especilaly with the less than warm feelings toward the US recently. If Saddam got on the news and said 'US I hate you, we're gonna nuke you' it would have been different- but look at it this way, from Saddam's standpoint. He's having fun leading his country, when Bush gets up there and starts talking about Iraq having weapons, which then turns into Iraq planning to fire them at the US, which then turns into a quest to overthrow Saddam and completely revolutionize his country! And we wonder why 9/10 of the civilized world hates us...

makaveli121212 · 02-1-2004, 04:16 PM

what does the world hating us have to do with anything...just becasue er are better than everyone else doesnt matter to me...it doesnt matter to me that they hate us...it isnt going to change unless our country goes poor...so ill take a rich prosporous country that is hated than a poor uncontrolled third world country that no one gives a damn about

jewpinthethird · 02-2-2004, 12:34 AM

HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF.

Think "Roman Empire".

**Specforces** · 02-2-2004, 06:05 AM

Jewpin, the roman empire was fatally flawed in one way that is obselete now. Its span of control. During this day and age that is no longer a huge factor in the ruling of an "empire." With the latest technology in communication and transportation, the United States can be anywhere it wants to be at any time. There was an old saying, "The sun never sets on the british empire" because of its array of colonies. Well the same holds true with the United States and most nations today that have the capabilities we do. Besides, we are not an imperialistic nation, we are a neo-imperialistic nation rather. We might control countries, but in a different type of way, a way that is not direct. We do it through economic interdependence and military threat. And though Iraq can be construed as as a "colony" now, it is in fact not. Not for long if it is a colony. But that's besides the point. Just presenting my opinion.

W/R

SPECFORCES

Systolic0205 · 02-2-2004, 09:12 AM

I can't stand it when people are blinded by the illusion that the United States Govt. puts up for its citizens... do you people realize how close we are to an economic depression again? Our national debt is near 5 trillion dollars... We are in rough shape finacnially, and Bush just wants everyone to feel happy! You wanna know why gas prices are so high? Because the govt. has taxes on that stuff that we don't even kow about! Same with cigarettes and alcohol... The govt. gets a huge chunk of that! Another thing contributing toour huge debt i, believe itor not... Savings Bonds! People are so bent on maturing their savings bonds 50 years past their set time, and there are so many of them, that the Govt, is essentially losing money! Our country is in a BIG slump, and neither Bush or Kerry or Dean or Edwards can do anything about it... Why? Because they're too scared. They don't want to take the road that Clinton took simply because of the bad name that Clinton got.. but let me tell you all something... Clinton (while being a moron) was an ingenius politician! Our national debt has lowered substantially after the Bush Administration took over. And don't forget that a drop in debt for the country shouldn't always be accredited to the current president... because if you notice, you don't see Bush DOING anything to get rid of the debt... He says "We're gonna knock out the National Debt!" But WHAT IS HE DOING? Also, what has Howard Dean said about the debt? NOTHING! He won't even remark on it. But as I posted previously.. Dean, though the first pick at the beginning at the beginning of the primaries, is about to be out of it... he's wasted a lot of money, an dthat definitely shows that he should NOT be a leader when our country is in such an economic crisis...

makaveli121212 · 02-2-2004, 02:01 PM

yeah no shit we pay the government taxes...is that really news toi anyone...we pay them to run things right...and if youre really interseted in the US paying off all its debt what would you do about it...there is only one thing you can do...cut back on all government funded programs like welfare and medicare and then raise taxes...do you think any president could get any of that legislature approved...furthermore do you think anyone would vote for the president that says that...

**Specforces** · 02-2-2004, 06:21 PM

Yeah I agree with you Systolic. Even though I am a republican, I am more of a moderate, and I liked Clinton a lot. He did a lot to bring us out of the deficit.

Dark_Mind · 02-2-2004, 08:19 PM

Clinton was a good president, and so what if he had an affair, lots of people have.

jewpinthethird · 02-3-2004, 12:34 AM

Ugh. Think back to 1933. The time the depression was at it's worst (not to mention Hoover did nothing to fix the problem except give tax cuts to the wealthy and big business..sound familiar?) Then FDR came into power. He passed some "radical" ideas to get the United States back on track. Such ideas still exist today, such as welfare. But what FDR was most respected for is that he restored hope.

When September 11th roled around, the economy was demolished. I do feel that getting rid of Al-Queda was a good move. Bush did a good job helping the US cope with the national tragedy. His cowboy attitude came in handy...however it got the best of him and he saw the opportunity to attack all the countries which he had beef with (Iraq). It is kind of like breaking your leg...and allowing it to get a tad bit better, and then doing jumping jacks. Bush didnt give enough time for the economy to recover and started a war based on distorted facts.

I totally agree that the world is better without Saddam in power...but now was not the right time. This why I dislike Bush. Dont worry about other countires when ours is suffering. If we were backed by the UN, I would not have any problem, but the fact is we (the united states) basically said "Fck you World, we are the most powerful nation, we will do as we please." Thus, causing the rest of the world to turn against us. I dont know about you, but I would rather have France, Germany, and Russia on our side instead of against us.

People seem to forget that both Germany and Russia are against us too. People only acknowledge France to be the "traitors" because if that "freedom fry" bullsh*t. Who is on our side? Britian, Canada, and Japan. I'm not to sure as to why Britian is on our side, would care to explain? But the Canadian is on our side because...well they are Canada...Americas Little Brother. Although, I think the Canadians hate us now. And Japan because they want help with N.Korea who is threatening Japan and the US so that we will help them fix their economy.

The only hope for America is in the strength of its citizens. Because the Government is damn well f*cked in my opinion. I feel we can all agree that we want the best for our nation. We just have different views on what we think is best. That is what makes this nation so great.

makaveli121212 · 02-3-2004, 05:41 AM

your sense of nationalism is part of the conservative ideolgy...i like that

**Specforces** · 02-3-2004, 06:15 AM

You have some good points jewpin. I agree that we have lost many friends, I just don't think it won't matter too much in the years to come, especially when we get a different president. The world is too economically interdependent to really not cooperate with each other. When I say the world, I really mean the west, U.S., Canada, Western Europe, and Japan. But I do think it was stupid to act without U.N. approval. But realize, we fun the largest portion of the U.N. budget, and we import and export a great majority of goods in the world. Screwing the U.S. over is not good for business. But anyway, it's good to have an intellectual conversation with someone.

W/R

SPECFORCES

**Cenright** · 02-3-2004, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Specforces

the roman empire was fatally flawed in one way that is obselete now. Its span of control. During this day and age that is no longer a huge factor in the ruling of an "empire."

(Sorry this was from so far back)
The other thing that ruined the Roman Empire more than distance was that the entire empire was based on bloodshed. That kind of empire will always fall, because there is always someone to fight back.

Distance did make it worse though.

Back on topic:
Governments will run their course, sometimes with little care to your opinion. Government appeals to the masses, because it is the masses that keep them in power. A government that sometimes goes against public opinion loses that public opinion. The masses are not the bright ones. That makes public opinion mostly based on emotion, and not rational thought.

02-1-2004, 09:13 AM	#27
Specforces Yes Join Date: Jan 2004 Age: 38 Posts: 5,028	BTW that ^^^^ was me __________________ Check Out My Music

02-2-2004, 06:05 AM	#32
Specforces Yes Join Date: Jan 2004 Age: 38 Posts: 5,028	Jewpin, the roman empire was fatally flawed in one way that is obselete now. Its span of control. During this day and age that is no longer a huge factor in the ruling of an "empire." With the latest technology in communication and transportation, the United States can be anywhere it wants to be at any time. There was an old saying, "The sun never sets on the british empire" because of its array of colonies. Well the same holds true with the United States and most nations today that have the capabilities we do. Besides, we are not an imperialistic nation, we are a neo-imperialistic nation rather. We might control countries, but in a different type of way, a way that is not direct. We do it through economic interdependence and military threat. And though Iraq can be construed as as a "colony" now, it is in fact not. Not for long if it is a colony. But that's besides the point. Just presenting my opinion. W/R SPECFORCES __________________ Check Out My Music

02-2-2004, 06:21 PM	#35
Specforces Yes Join Date: Jan 2004 Age: 38 Posts: 5,028	Yeah I agree with you Systolic. Even though I am a republican, I am more of a moderate, and I liked Clinton a lot. He did a lot to bring us out of the deficit. __________________ Check Out My Music

02-2-2004, 08:19 PM	#36
Dark_Mind FFR Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Age: 38 Posts: 163	Clinton was a good president, and so what if he had an affair, lots of people have. __________________

02-3-2004, 06:15 AM	#39
Specforces Yes Join Date: Jan 2004 Age: 38 Posts: 5,028	You have some good points jewpin. I agree that we have lost many friends, I just don't think it won't matter too much in the years to come, especially when we get a different president. The world is too economically interdependent to really not cooperate with each other. When I say the world, I really mean the west, U.S., Canada, Western Europe, and Japan. But I do think it was stupid to act without U.N. approval. But realize, we fun the largest portion of the U.N. budget, and we import and export a great majority of goods in the world. Screwing the U.S. over is not good for business. But anyway, it's good to have an intellectual conversation with someone. W/R SPECFORCES __________________ Check Out My Music

01-29-2004, 04:34 AM	#21
Anonymous FFR Player Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 1,088	ok deathstar grow up.. second of all. Bush is a complete idiot. I think he doesnt deserve to lead the united states for a second term. He couldnt catch osama so he turned the peoples attention to saddam. there is no proof of weapons of (this is the key word) MASS destruction. no biochemical warefar. no nuclear bombs were found. the country is just to fucking poor , and saddam is greedy. so saddam probably just said "why spend billions making weapons when i can keep it and live nicely". Bush used saddam to take america's mind off the fact that they couldnt find osama. Also he invaded iraq for thier oil. americans cant defend it. 2 weeks after the war was over , the united states asked the UN if they could control the use of iraqie oil... they used some dumbshit excuse saying they will use it to rebuild iraq. so far i havent seen any rebuilding anywhere. And the economy. Before bush became president , the canadian dollar was at 70 cents to the US dollar. Now it frequently reaches 80 cents (which is A LOT). The US is falling further in debt. Bush also sent men to iraq for fuetal causes. he sacrified LIVES just for oil and to keep the people's minds off osama. so what if he caught saddam. wtf are they going to do with him? talk him to death? Now i know he was an evil man and he tortured people , stole thier money (on of my best friends family were rich iraqies... saddam stole thier fortune and they had to come to canada to escape him) and caused suffering amungst the people of iraq.. he will surely die after going through the world court, but still bush has solved nothing. He cleaned up a united states mess (the US put saddam in power) and took the minds off osama's attack on september 11, as well as gaining a bit of money (and i use the term BIT loosely) in the process.. Do not re-elect that dislexic retard who wants the whole world to be like the USA.

01-29-2004, 04:35 AM	#22
Jello FFR Simfile Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 612	fucking piece of shit. that last post was me ... synth if you read this why does ffr sign you out automatically after a short period of time of not going through the site?

01-29-2004, 04:42 AM	#23
Synthlight Administrator Founder, System Administrator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: United States of America Age: 50 Posts: 3,052	Jello, The US did not put Saddam in power. Saddam took over IRAQ many years ago with his baath party supporters. Way before the whole Iran thing went down. Cheers, Synthlight

01-29-2004, 07:59 AM	#24
Systolic0205 FFR Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 20	Dean is going to out of the running VERY soon.. He lost over $2,000,000 advertising in New Hampshire in the Primaries... and he LOST! He's broke! Kerry is going to get the Democratic ticket, obviously, and public demand wants Bush, though he's a complete idiot who looks like Elian Gonzalez... I'm just glad that Al Sharpden is out of the running.

02-1-2004, 09:11 AM	#26
Anonymous FFR Player Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 1,088	Synth what you speak is true. But it is also true that we supported Saddam Hussein in the Iran/Iraq war. Attached to this post I have a picture of Donald Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam Hussein. There is some merit to Jello's comment, though his exact wording was off. We also supported an organization that Osama bin Laden was part of during the 1980's in efforts to foil the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. So, in essence, we have helped many of our enemies come to power. However, I would also argue that this administration has done a lot of good in taking the threats out of power. 9/11 would have happened no matter who was President, but I believe that the liberal base that Al Gore needed to portray at all times, especially during a possible first term, would have made him act differently and not like a Hawk, which I believe was the appropriate mindset for the time. But that's besides the point, will Dean win the democratic primary, probably not, Kerry has a few advantages. These including the veteran background and his lack of extremist views. But will any of the Democratic candidates win against the incumbent, Dubya, highly unlikely. In matters of politics the incumbent always has the advantage. Bush has free press, free postage, the advantage of being in office already, and the capture of Saddam Hussein under his belt. In addition the economy is on the uprise, and the economy is the number one indicator of whether or not the incumbent will get elected again. Just a few things to keep in mind when debating. W/R SpecForces

02-1-2004, 03:56 PM	#28
jewpinthethird (The Fat's Sabobah) Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Palm Springs, California Posts: 11,711	I dont like bush, but I dont like the democrating candidates either. The facts are that the world is against the United States. Anyone who does not see that is ignorant. Anyone who ignores the fact that there were millions of protesters of this "Iraqi Freedom" War around the world is just plain dumb. Anyone who ignores that fact that the Bush Administartion lied to the U.N. as well as the people of the United States is arrogant. Anyone who doesnt believe history repeats itself, is doomed to repeat it.

02-2-2004, 12:34 AM	#31
jewpinthethird (The Fat's Sabobah) Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Palm Springs, California Posts: 11,711	HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF. Think "Roman Empire".

02-2-2004, 09:12 AM	#33
Systolic0205 FFR Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 20	I can't stand it when people are blinded by the illusion that the United States Govt. puts up for its citizens... do you people realize how close we are to an economic depression again? Our national debt is near 5 trillion dollars... We are in rough shape finacnially, and Bush just wants everyone to feel happy! You wanna know why gas prices are so high? Because the govt. has taxes on that stuff that we don't even kow about! Same with cigarettes and alcohol... The govt. gets a huge chunk of that! Another thing contributing toour huge debt i, believe itor not... Savings Bonds! People are so bent on maturing their savings bonds 50 years past their set time, and there are so many of them, that the Govt, is essentially losing money! Our country is in a BIG slump, and neither Bush or Kerry or Dean or Edwards can do anything about it... Why? Because they're too scared. They don't want to take the road that Clinton took simply because of the bad name that Clinton got.. but let me tell you all something... Clinton (while being a moron) was an ingenius politician! Our national debt has lowered substantially after the Bush Administration took over. And don't forget that a drop in debt for the country shouldn't always be accredited to the current president... because if you notice, you don't see Bush DOING anything to get rid of the debt... He says "We're gonna knock out the National Debt!" But WHAT IS HE DOING? Also, what has Howard Dean said about the debt? NOTHING! He won't even remark on it. But as I posted previously.. Dean, though the first pick at the beginning at the beginning of the primaries, is about to be out of it... he's wasted a lot of money, an dthat definitely shows that he should NOT be a leader when our country is in such an economic crisis...

02-3-2004, 12:34 AM	#37
jewpinthethird (The Fat's Sabobah) Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Palm Springs, California Posts: 11,711	Ugh. Think back to 1933. The time the depression was at it's worst (not to mention Hoover did nothing to fix the problem except give tax cuts to the wealthy and big business..sound familiar?) Then FDR came into power. He passed some "radical" ideas to get the United States back on track. Such ideas still exist today, such as welfare. But what FDR was most respected for is that he restored hope. When September 11th roled around, the economy was demolished. I do feel that getting rid of Al-Queda was a good move. Bush did a good job helping the US cope with the national tragedy. His cowboy attitude came in handy...however it got the best of him and he saw the opportunity to attack all the countries which he had beef with (Iraq). It is kind of like breaking your leg...and allowing it to get a tad bit better, and then doing jumping jacks. Bush didnt give enough time for the economy to recover and started a war based on distorted facts. I totally agree that the world is better without Saddam in power...but now was not the right time. This why I dislike Bush. Dont worry about other countires when ours is suffering. If we were backed by the UN, I would not have any problem, but the fact is we (the united states) basically said "Fck you World, we are the most powerful nation, we will do as we please." Thus, causing the rest of the world to turn against us. I dont know about you, but I would rather have France, Germany, and Russia on our side instead of against us. People seem to forget that both Germany and Russia are against us too. People only acknowledge France to be the "traitors" because if that "freedom fry" bullsht. Who is on our side? Britian, Canada, and Japan. I'm not to sure as to why Britian is on our side, would care to explain? But the Canadian is on our side because...well they are Canada...Americas Little Brother. Although, I think the Canadians hate us now. And Japan because they want help with N.Korea who is threatening Japan and the US so that we will help them fix their economy. The only hope for America is in the strength of its citizens. Because the Government is damn well fcked in my opinion. I feel we can all agree that we want the best for our nation. We just have different views on what we think is best. That is what makes this nation so great.

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