10-16-2019, 10:34 PM | #21 |
Washed and Irrelevant D7
Join Date: May 2012
Age: 27
Posts: 1,804
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Re: Difficulty Consultant Applications
coming from someone that isn't naturally good at rhythm games, i'd say that i agree with the statement that a lot of high level players overlook some of the patterns that would be considered difficult to a D3/4. it took me years to go from barely being able to get under 50g FC on sound of my dream rmx (a 17 on the current scale) to where i am now. and now that i've made it, i can honestly say that D7's tend to rank files through a very biased lens that reflect their own skillsets.
like, i can't AAA for shit. i legit still have an issue trying to consistently AAA some D4 songs because the patterns are pretty wonky, while others files will be ez pz lemon squeezy but ranked higher just cuz they are faster. now this is just completely my opinion and DOES NOT apply to all D7/8 players, but a lot of us tend to skip over the fact that these weird ass patterns in lower ranked songs took a long time to learn and didn't just come naturally to us either. edit: i just want to make clear that my statement is not a personal attack on anyone. k thx
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Last edited by PhantomPuppy; 10-16-2019 at 10:37 PM.. |
10-16-2019, 10:35 PM | #22 | |
Very Grave Indeed
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Re: Difficulty Consultant Applications
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10-16-2019, 10:41 PM | #23 | |
✘ Forever OP✘
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Canada,Quebec
Age: 29
Posts: 4,171
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Re: Difficulty Consultant Applications
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10-16-2019, 10:45 PM | #24 | |
✘ Forever OP✘
Join Date: Dec 2008
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Age: 29
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Re: Difficulty Consultant Applications
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I'm not saying we should absolutely have a high lvl player do it, I'm arguing that high lvl players are usually better suited for the job. |
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10-16-2019, 11:33 PM | #25 | |
✘ Forever OP✘
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Canada,Quebec
Age: 29
Posts: 4,171
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Re: Difficulty Consultant Applications
Many people use the typical "difficulty is subjective" line when they can't or don't want to argue further on difficulty. Yes difficulty is subjective, however that doesn't mean it shouldn't have structure. The most common points I see lately are about bpms + patterns (and occasionally stamina/length). This combination has its subjectivity (just like any other basis of difficulty) but it's debatable in terms of what's harder than what. Lower end files are no different: some combinations are harder than others. Fun fact, Etterna uses pretty much that kind of structure, split into categories.
Lets debate this example of yours: Quote:
Also, difficulty is relative to other files in a specific range. That being said, I'm pretty confident that it's more likely for a lower level player to get lost in the ratings if they dont set a minimal structure because, as it's been pointed out, the lower end is messy af. One could easily fall in the trap of X feels harder than Y so it seems like it should be bumped up, but the fact is that Y is an outlier of its range and should Also be changed. All in all, if any DC explains to me their decisions without any attempted objectivity in their comparisions, especially if on the basis that "difficulty is subjective", then I'll just lol and chances are people will complain. Last edited by xXOpkillerXx; 10-16-2019 at 11:39 PM.. |
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10-17-2019, 12:00 AM | #26 |
Retired Staff
All the things
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Re: Difficulty Consultant Applications
I promise I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just not in the mental state of reading the big posts at the moment but ultimately the fact is the way it's been approached hasn't been working out.
I want a diverse team, I've made this clear and I'm not the only one who thinks it should be so. Yes, they may not know every little detail but that's why us seasoned people are there, to help them learn and understand what they may not while being able to give us insight that we may no longer have being in the upper area. This site has always had an elitist problem, for many many many years. You can say no it's not true but I see it regularly. It's a shame how some of the upper level people even talk to some of the lower end when they try to bring up some of this stuff. Anyway, this is going to be a long project and not something that's gonna happen straight away so if for some reason it's not looking like it's working out we'll re-evaluate and go from there. |
10-17-2019, 12:20 AM | #27 | |
✘ Forever OP✘
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Canada,Quebec
Age: 29
Posts: 4,171
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Re: Difficulty Consultant Applications
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10-17-2019, 12:24 AM | #28 | |
Retired Staff
All the things
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Re: Difficulty Consultant Applications
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I honestly wish you all would just hold up and wait till we get this settled more formally and present our idea rather than it keep being this huge thing. |
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10-17-2019, 07:51 AM | #29 |
Simfile Judge
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 476
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Re: Difficulty Consultant Applications
If a file is too easy to judge for a higher-skilled player, isn't it a possibility to just up the rate? From my personal entirely subjective experience what makes a file hard for a beginner that's playing index usually isn't that different from what makes a file hard for a more advanced player. It's usually just the speed and frequency at which the patterns come up.
Even if you have a level 3 file where arrows come in lets say every 0.5 seconds a [1,2,2,1] pattern is still going to be harder to hit for most players than a [1,2,3,4] pattern. Last edited by M0nkeyz; 10-17-2019 at 07:56 AM.. |
10-17-2019, 08:16 AM | #30 |
D7 Elite Keymasher
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: In My Room, 10101
Age: 33
Posts: 4,678
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Re: Difficulty Consultant Applications
Being a pretty low D6 player whose ass at aaaing shit and pretty bad at dense patterns i definitely feel like we need lower level difficulty people. Having mostly higher end doesnt really make much sense since you dont really have trouble with most patterns. Over the past 2 days ive played a bunch of newer songs and i feel like a bunch of them are a bit off still. I'm level 87 and still have trouble with songs in the 60s and 70s range. We might not necessarily need a D2 OR D3 player but i think having maybe a D4,5, and/or D6 would be good since they can see harder patterning better than someone who plays 100s and aaas them with ease.
You really do need to think like a newer player. Starting out jacks and rolls/bursts are pretty hard. I feel like compared to older lower level files the newer ones are getting much more difficult in terms of actual patterning and layering. Like, hands were pretty rare back in the day and now ALOT of lower level songs have them. For a new player thats just learning they wont be able to comprehend them all that fast so something with hands might be harder in terms of difficulty but a high level player wont see that.
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Thee Burstinator [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Last edited by SK8R43; 10-17-2019 at 08:18 AM.. |
10-17-2019, 10:13 AM | #31 | |
The Doctor
Join Date: Apr 2006
Age: 35
Posts: 6,145
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Re: Difficulty Consultant Applications
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For example: Queue up "Atlast" (11) on a rate equal to your division, then queue up "Morning Glory" (11). Last edited by TheSaxRunner05; 10-17-2019 at 10:15 AM.. Reason: Edit:// Clarity |
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10-17-2019, 10:39 AM | #32 |
Snivy! Dohoho!
Join Date: Mar 2006
Age: 33
Posts: 6,161
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Re: Difficulty Consultant Applications
Y'know, when it comes to easier difficulties, I think the first thing to take note of is the NPS and place the difficulty number based on that for the super low numbers since at that point the patterns shouldn't even be considered unless there's suddenly a burst of 16ths in the middle of a file. If there is, I'd rate the song solely on that one section.
It's only when NPS on average get higher at 4 or so where you'd have to consider if note patterning is flow friendly. That's when you start basing difficulties strictly on note structure and patterning. If there's a sudden extra note in the middle of a bunch of 8ths, I'd raise the difficulty up based on that alone. If there's more than one instance where it happens, bump it up again. Repeat until that one instance happens throughout the file and then rate the difficulty based on pattern choices. Rinse and repeat as things get faster and faster. ... It's how I would approach it anyways, lol. |
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