Ingame Song Information

[foxfire667]

Originally Posted by bmah

Ever considered the ridiculous offsync of the file? That and the constant 16th jumpstreams for nearly the entire song makes this unanimously an FMO. Some people find blue-arrow files harder to read too. The file's about how long you can last without screwing up.

Doesn't really matter considering that it's 16th jumpstreams at the same BPM through pretty much the entire song, meaning you can overlook sync and just play at the same pace until the ending. Although if you have trouble doing this, turning off the speakers would ensure you the easy score if you can AAA files like southern cross and k8107.

As far as blue arrow files being harder to read...I suppose it depends on the person. Although unless the file is utter crap it really shouldn't matter what color the arrows are unless a person who has trouble looking at a certain color because it strains your eyes or something.

This song is not FMO material in my opinion, it is just way too slow to have any significant difficulty. Unless you want to add in a redundant factor, I really don't undrstand how it can be considered a 77. Maybe a higher VC, but definately not an FMO.

[Patashu]

silence is mindnumbing. if you don't get it in one go you'll get worse and worse because of how tedious it is to play

[HoneyMelonCalibrator]

Silence is definitely an FMO imo.

[OneHandNow]

when you look at Silence being a potential FMO
and..
toxiferious dystopia & october being a FMO..

:/
the difference is too big

[AlexDest]

Just compare Southern Cross and Silence to being FMOs.

Silence only has jumpstream throughout the file and it's too slow to be considered an FMO. Southern Cross is longer and a bit faster than Silence, the only different thing Southern Cross has are the short bursts.

[Patashu]

that's going to be a problem no matter how many difficulty rankings there are. there are high 77s and low 77s just as there are high fmos and low fmos.

[Vanilla Mnm]

There is no way Silence is an FMO...
Southern Cross MAYBE, but probably not.
K8107 is an FMO, comparing it to other low FMOs.

[bmah]

Silence is persistent which is why it's mainly an FMO. Patashu basically said it.

[igotrhythm]

Silence has been moved down to VC in game last I checked. It's not blazing fast, but stamina and consistency is what's needed to get the FC there.

Southern Cross's jump bursts get me every time, but the streams aren't that bad.

K8107...pfft, I managed to PFC that song to 528 once. The ending is fairly tough to hit, but it's easily readable.

[qqwref]

I find silence hard to read, but not really enough to make it FMO anymore considering all the technical bursty tough songs that have been put into the VC category.

[Niala]

Silence>75
GoSW>77? Or am I the only person who finds this file kind of tricky? Mostly just the trills on 2-3, that section is really easy to mess up on. Plus, the chorus of the file plays kind of weird, IMO. Anybody with me on this?

[Superfreak04]

Originally Posted by Niala

Silence>75
GoSW>77? Or am I the only person who finds this file kind of tricky? Mostly just the trills on 2-3, that section is really easy to mess up on. Plus, the chorus of the file plays kind of weird, IMO. Anybody with me on this?

I agree, it took me forever to AAA that file because of step patterns like that.

[Izzy]

Is there some standard evaluation of a songs difficulty that we go by? If not then it seems like we should make one so we can judge song difficult by the same factors every single time for consistancy.

Note density
Pattern difficulty
Length
Average bpm

etc...

[XCV]

I agree with Izzy, although the criteria he gives isn't completely objective without arbitrary numerical equation (pattern difficulty), and that really just makes my head spin thinking about it because there's way too much to accurately equate.

So basically, if this doesn't fall through we're after something like this:

hm(taps/second, pattern difficulty, length in seconds, bpm)

where hm() is the harmonic mean function, defined as the reciprocal of the arithmetic mean of the sum of the reciprocals of the values, which works out to:

4/(l/s + 1/d + l + b) = 4dt/(ds + t + dls + bds)

l = length in seconds
s = steps (notes)
d = pattern difficulty
b = average BPM

[Check my math, please.]

If there weren't four variables in this, it would be far less cumbersome to work with. As it is, algebraic simplification for d is beyond my immediate powers of thought and it's not worth spending time on, as it's a guess that I tossed out and very inaccurate.

I've spent a good 30 minutes typing this and/or doing math, so I'll leave off here. If anyone with better math education than me can get a better estimate of this function, then please do so.

[smartdude1212]

Or we just compare songs to each other.

Choprite is much easier than Southern Cross (a few fast bits versus jumpstream & some 32nds) yet Choprite is FMO and Southern Cross is not.

Dot Matrix Hero is easier than some of the 9s out there but it's still VC.

The list goes on and on.

[bmah]

the point was to add some objectivity into determining song difficulties

not all songs can be qualitatively evaluated and agreed upon unanimously; we've been comparing songs like that ever since, but there might be a way to make decisions more objectively by determining various parameters of a song

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by XCV

I agree with Izzy, although the criteria he gives isn't completely objective without arbitrary numerical equation (pattern difficulty), and that really just makes my head spin thinking about it because there's way too much to accurately equate.

So basically, if this doesn't fall through we're after something like this:

hm(taps/second, pattern difficulty, length in seconds, bpm)

where hm() is the harmonic mean function, defined as the reciprocal of the arithmetic mean of the sum of the reciprocals of the values, which works out to:

4/(l/s + 1/d + l + b) = 4dt/(ds + t + dls + bds)

l = length in seconds
s = steps (notes)
d = pattern difficulty
b = average BPM

[Check my math, please.]

If there weren't four variables in this, it would be far less cumbersome to work with. As it is, algebraic simplification for d is beyond my immediate powers of thought and it's not worth spending time on, as it's a guess that I tossed out and very inaccurate.

I've spent a good 30 minutes typing this and/or doing math, so I'll leave off here. If anyone with better math education than me can get a better estimate of this function, then please do so.

There's only one issue with this. Pattern difficulty is a highly subjective issue - some people are better at one thing and others are better at something else. No matter what equation you come up with, there's really no way to account for this. Pattern density isn't an effective equation either because some songs will spike to extremely high densities for short periods and it just makes mathematical equations that much harder to derive. I do like the setup you have as a foundation, though.

[bmah]

It is impossible to be 100% objective in the determination process, but there are a few things that can be accounted for objectively, such as song length. To what degree the length affects the song is another matter though. Overall, if we try to account for everything (as I've attempted to quantify before), it becomes overly complicated.

[One Winged Angel]

haha that's the first thing he mentions in his post, there's really no way to get around that subjectivity

a file that's one minute of 300 bpm random 16th stream is obviously going to be harder than a file of the same length that's 300 bpm 16th left to right rolls, but there's obviously no surefire way of determining the number that would separate the two in difficulty

bmah you ninja

[OneHandNow]

i would find the 16th left to right rolls harder actually..

subjectivity