Atheism/Theism thread

[RB_Spirit]

Originally Posted by PaperclipGames

Logical flaw right there. Being unsure of the truth means that there is nothing you truly believe in; thus, basically, you believe in none of the things (where "believing in x" means "being convinced that x is true").

However, we have a list of possibilities what could be in the safe: a cloth, a paper, a bee's nest, nothing, and so on. We can label these options a_1, a_2, a_3...
Since you cannot look into the safe, you don't truly believe in any one specific a_i. However, we must acknowledge that at least one of the a_j must be correct: either one of the options is in it, or there simply is nothing in it. So, even without being able to look into the safe, you can believe something about the contents: you believe that "a_1, a_2, a_3, ... a_x is in it, or that nothing is in it" (by definition). This belief about the safe is based on the the common knowledge (belief?!?!) that a safe is capable of containing something in general. Again, the difference between disbelief and belief are (almost) non-existent.

Another example: I give you any random whole number. Do you believe it is even? Do you believe it is odd? You can't know until you look, so don't believe in any one specific (even/odd). However, you do believe that it either even or odd. So even without strict knowledge, it is possible to 100% believe.

I understand what you're point is, and now looking back at what i wrote, it definitely was a logical flaw. I typed it in such a hurry, overall, i meant that their is usually a belief when theirs a non-belief. And a non-belief IMO is a belief(Definitely depends on the scenario) and again, it's just my opinion. Not forcing it on anyone, simply acknowledging that it's clearly not based on factual evidence, just a, "Belief" i guess.

[PaperclipGames]

Originally Posted by JJTrixX

Would you not honor your mother or father, the very people whom without, you would not exist?

I do this. I hope you're not trying to say otherwise - you don't know my personal life. As in, I hope this is not a personal insult, because if it is, I probably would actually take offense to it. (What the hell, on the Internet? Something's wrong with me)

Originally Posted by JJTrixX

Science came from God.

I'm sorry, but this is one of the funniest phrases I've ever heard. Nice try though, I guess.

I can see why you could think something like that; God supplying us with whatever knowledge or something. Still, that's almost as bad as making an excuse for anything else. You got an F on your test because you didn't study? Too bad, God should've made you study then. The world doesn't work that way. Or, at least, you wouldn't find work that way, lmao.

[JJTrixX]

Originally Posted by PaperclipGames

I do this. I hope you're not trying to say otherwise - you don't know my personal life. As in, I hope this is not a personal insult, because if it is, I probably would actually take offense to it. (What the hell, on the Internet? Something's wrong with me)

No insult intended at all. It was my response to you saying, "I think science is beautiful, and so much can be done in science." I agree science IS beautiful, but so much MORE can be done in the name of God for God is far more beautiful.

[JJTrixX]

Reincarnate, this one is for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EonZXFd0Afw

[JJTrixX]

Head of Human DNA project atheist converts to Christianity. Listen to his testimony:

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qygy14tC3I

[customstuff]

Originally Posted by JJTrixX

Reincarnate, this one is for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EonZXFd0Afw

JJTrixX, this one is for you:

[JJTrixX]

Originally Posted by customstuff

JJTrixX, this one is for you:

The message in the Bible was created for humans, not piranhas as is so described in your posted video. Piranhas are not the dominant species on earth, humans are.

"And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." That's Genesis One, Verse 28.

[Reincarnate]

Originally Posted by JJTrixX

Reincarnate, this one is for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EonZXFd0Afw

lol, total nonsense

Funny part is that I posted a video earlier in this thread which actually addressed this very video you just posted

First four minutes or so



Anyways, almost everything that guy says in your video is bogus.

[bmah]

Just want to remind everyone that this is a Critical Thinking topic. You not only gotta be respectful, but you also have to contribute substantially to the topic. Please avoid derailing the thread or double-posting/cluttering up the thread.

[JJTrixX]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

lol, total nonsense

Funny part is that I posted a video earlier in this thread which actually addressed this very video you just posted

First four minutes or so



Anyways, almost everything that guy says in your video is bogus.

The message in the Bible was created for humans, not piranhas as is so described in your posted video. Piranhas are not the dominant species on earth, humans are.

"And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." That's Genesis One, Verse 28.

Comparing the lifestlye of a fish to the lifestyle of a human is completely different. Are you a fish? do you live in the ocean?

Explain to me exactly what he says that you find to be bogus because he actually demonstrates the existence of a higher power through logic and reason also qouting reputable scientists and professors who base their information off of research and specialization.

[Izzy]

Originally Posted by JJTrixX

TAre you a fish? do you live in the ocean?

Explain to me...

I love this defensive style of writing I always see in this kind of thread. Never fails to make me smile.

Originally Posted by bmah

this is a Critical Thinking topic

It isn't really a critical thinking topic. It's either worth moving or locking.

[Mollocephalus]

Originally Posted by JJTrixX

he actually demonstrates the existence of a higher power through logic and reason also qouting reputable scientists and professors who base their information off of research and specialization.

Anyone who demonstrates the presence of higher powers through "logic" and "quoting reputable scientists" is just using a bunch of logical tricks and is no better than any second door-to-door salesman.

God itself is not supposed to be known. That's what you guys always said, that the only way to find god is through faith. To make someone go lengths and try to prove logically that god exists (don't you find this ironic already?) it means you're really desperate. Not you as a person, but religious people in general, cause everyone who has a functioning brain can understand how absurd it is. Even people like cavernio, who developed an emotional attachment to religion early in their life, were able to brush it off with some thinking.

This means, not only you are presumptuous, self entitled and very dense, can't tell if purposely ignoring on the most vital parts of the concepts that have been told you or just not able to understand them, but you also lack the capacity to think for yourself, as there is "god" --> actually organized religion, who already gave you all the answers and guidelines to whatever happens in your life.

I could go through this thread and pick all the instances where you've shown your severe inability of making even the simplest reasoning and your never ending smug about being eternally right, but it's not worth it. just reply to the following, if you can:

Originally Posted by Mollocephalus

I don't know how you can possibly make such a post after everything that has been said here and not realize that your post is the exact confirmation that not only your reasoning is entirely flawed, but you're making use of the same fallacities over and over to justify your stance. You are not clever. You are not enlightened. You are the same as pshychotic person repeating the same delusional patterns no matter what you feed them. People in this thread had way too much patience with you, and given you are not a troll, your reasoning falls way below mental retard. This is not meant to be an offence, it is a matter of fact.

To sum it up, you absolutely did not come here with a mind open to accept new possibilities, as there is only one available to you, and everyone who thinks otherwise is automatically inferior, as clearly shown by the many instances where you brought up how god-less people lack for morals, are lost, have no purpose with their lives, etc. I guess if you live your faith trying to use it as a mean to do good to you and the people around you, have some connession with the universe and the divine, while conceptually wrong, that's fine. But if you happen to be actively opinionated and trying to make a difference about anything concerning education, health, government that is related to your faith, my dear friend, you are to be considered a social cancer to exterminate.

[adlp]

Originally Posted by spaghetti

To make someone go lengths and try to prove logically that god exists (don't you find this ironic already?)

the whole notion of debating a god's existence is that it will never be fully proven or disproven by definition of men

and lol i swear you guys make up the userbase of r/atheism because this whole "lmao fundies dont have a functioning brain" doesnt really help your own case. btw there's millions of people in this world with higher intelligence than a majority of the FFR userbase that still believe in God so it's just something you guys are just going to have to deal with it

[Mollocephalus]

Originally Posted by raging circumcided penis

the whole notion of debating a god's existence is that it will never be fully proven or disproven by definition of men

That is just a contruct put there so that there would be a way to escape confrontation through logical means. Honestly, isn't it obvious? Come on.

Furthermore, i never said that religious people are automatically stupid. It's the faith that is something ridiculous, and it obviously implies some limitations and patterns on the people which adhere to it. Believing in deities is something laughable by all means. That doesn't make them stupid as a whole, though.

[Izzy]

The inherent belief of some higher form of existence doesn't make you stupid, but basing your life on it even though it is in the realm of untestibility does make you stupid.

[PaperclipGames]

I'm pretty sure that deities in general can not be proven by definition, otherwise they wouldn't be deities - thus, making them only accessible through (blind) faith. This makes their existence unprovable, but their non-existence too. It simply depends on what a person believes is the case, and no more. Science, no matter how advanced, can disprove the possibility of a God's existence, simply because God could've made science in such a manner that it would seem as though He can't exist.

There are many famous scientists who were born atheist, and went through life atheist; but as they continued in their work and research they became so astounded by the marvel of the universe and its beauty that they could not but believe there must have been a blueprint of it; a thought or idea by some higher power.

Which may be naive (I kind of find it so), but I can understand why it happens. Plus, being religious does seem to help a lot of people, who would just have given up on life otherwise. It still does more bad than good, although, I don't understand why multiple religions can't be able to live next to eachother in peace. I think that's the main thing that needs to be addressed, rather than things like conversion and the extermination of religion.

By the way, just stressing, I don't personally believe in any deity, nor do I specifically reject anything; all I'm saying is that it is (or at least, should be) understandable why many people do believe.

Side note: Mollocephalus' second-to-last post in this thread can be summarized as "you're stupid and wrong, and I'm right". Very low quality of posting you've got there, buddy. I'd kindly suggest you to improve it or stay away from the thread.

[gnr61]

^this guy's a gent

[adlp]

Originally Posted by Izzy

basing your life on it even though it is in the realm of untestibility does make you stupid.

i kinda agree with this in some aspects. when my dad was in iraq 2009-2010 he would talk about how the iraqi's were very apathetic towards their own safety sometimes. like he said a lot of men would cross a busy town street without really looking both ways because they believe if they got struck it was allah's will for some reason. so i think thats an example of what you mean right? idk. as mormons we believe that God helps those that help themselves and to be charitable to the less fortunate.

a small but frequent example from my personal life is like when i'm about to take a big test for a class. usually i say a silent prayer when im testing for help to remember what i studied and to not be nervous and make stupid mistakes. if i didnt do my part and study, i cant really expect God to help me as much because im basically asking for a free ride

[Mollocephalus]

Originally Posted by PaperclipGames

I'm pretty sure that deities in general can not be proven by definition, otherwise they wouldn't be deities - thus, making them only accessible through (blind) faith. This makes their existence unprovable, but their non-existence too.

This is all very interesting in a philosophical sense, but the sad thruth is this logical trick has been enforced on purpose. On pratical terms, it is completely worthless. It's as valid as any made up assumption can be, which means it has zero reason to be even considered, period.

Originally Posted by PaperclipGames

Side note: Mollocephalus' second-to-last post in this thread can be summarized as "you're stupid and wrong, and I'm right". Very low quality of posting you've got there, buddy. I'd kindly suggest you to improve it or stay away from the thread.

I was merely trying to get a reaction from jj, as he has been ignoring any valid point ever brought up and proceeded to keep waving his smug of superiority over anyone else, while at the same time pretending he is interested in the confrontation. You can tell by several of his posts.

Frankly, this discussion in quite absurd. One day humanity will look back and have a laugh.

[PaperclipGames]

Originally Posted by Mollocephalus

This is all very interesting in a philosophical sense, but the sad thruth is this logical trick has been enforced on purpose. On pratical terms, it is completely worthless. It's as valid as any made up assumption can be, which means it has zero reason to be even considered, period.

I partially agree with this. On the other hand, assumptions (in the form of axioms for logical systems) are necessary to be able to gather any knowledge. This has been proven general systems: see Gödel.

You can assume that there is a God. You can also assume that if you perform a scientific experiment twice with the exact same conditions, you will get the same result. Just because gravity has been working the way we predict it to thus far, doesn't mean we can't just magically begin to float any second - there is no absolute proof that it won't. It's all theory: we assume that nothing "supernatural" is going to happen, when we do science.

I agree that the assumption that nothing supernatural will happen makes a lot more sense, than assuming there's a deity, though!