Super Smash Brothers Brawl

[korny]

Well it's not like you were specifically directing it to someone. Besides, i know there's nothing i can say that can make you think otherwise to certain items being fair or not.

You enjoy playing smash for different reasons than I. Your style of playing smash reminds me of the little kids style. ( I mean no offense by this). Little kids style in the sense that when a little kid gets this game he's going to play it with items on because the thought of taking them off would be boring. Very understandable. I see it everytime i go to one of my little cousins house while they're playing the game. I understand that they play the game with items because the chaos of it is what gives them a good laugh and a fun time.

When I play super smash brothers, I simple play to see who is better. I play for what is in my opinion, the REAL competition. A competition with no randomness. A straight to the point battle to see who can display greater tactics with just the use of their character. Pure combat. Nothing else. Winning that way makes me feel a whole lot more accomplished knowing that either A. Each life my opponent lost was taken away because of the way i used my character to take his life without the use of a foreign object, Or B. My opponent killed himself (when you kill yourself it's your own fault you couldn't prevent it). Either way the winner of the match wins without his opponent to have the ability to say "well if you hadn't gottent this item the match could've been different" and so on and so on.

The point is, in a determination of true skill our opinions are always going to be different. I consider pure combat skills to be the determining factor, and you consider the ability to be able to do both the determining factor.

[Telvanni_guard]

Beam Sword- Has an extended reach on it's forward attack.
Mr. Saturn- More or less a turnip. No real problem with this.
Star Rod- Gives a character a ranged attack they wouldn't otherwise have.
Lip's Stick- Poison is fun.
Fan- Turning people around could possibly lead to stage deaths.
Scope- See Star Rod. Also has a Samus-esque charge.
Ray Gun- See Star Rod.
Fire Flower- Can cause a loop until the fireflower wears off.
Freezie- Free smash attack anyone?
Smoke Bomb- These are so fun to use.
Pitfall-See Freezie
Hothead- These have insane knockback especially if you attack them. (They grow you know?)
Soccer Ball- Random attack can send these flying if they spawn in front of you.
Unira (Spiny thing)- It's like a mine but for damage. Not much but could still determine a match.
Shell- Surprisingly strong knockback.
Banana- Diddy has those doesn't he? Not much different.


There's my general analysis. But.. I like items.

[bmah]

I like the Superspicy Curry. It actually causes a lot of damage to those who get caught in the flames.

[Telvanni_guard]

Originally Posted by bmah

I like the Superspicy Curry. It actually causes a lot of damage to those who get caught in the flames.

Boss killing weapon dejure.

[Shamo0]

Originally Posted by korny

Well it's not like you were specifically directing it to someone. Besides, i know there's nothing i can say that can make you think otherwise to certain items being fair or not.

You enjoy playing smash for different reasons than I. Your style of playing smash reminds me of the little kids style. ( I mean no offense by this). Little kids style in the sense that when a little kid gets this game he's going to play it with items on because the thought of taking them off would be boring. Very understandable. I see it everytime i go to one of my little cousins house while they're playing the game. I understand that they play the game with items because the chaos of it is what gives them a good laugh and a fun time.

When I play super smash brothers, I simple play to see who is better. I play for what is in my opinion, the REAL competition. A competition with no randomness. A straight to the point battle to see who can display greater tactics with just the use of their character. Pure combat. Nothing else. Winning that way makes me feel a whole lot more accomplished knowing that either A. Each life my opponent lost was taken away because of the way i used my character to take his life without the use of a foreign object, Or B. My opponent killed himself (when you kill yourself it's your own fault you couldn't prevent it). Either way the winner of the match wins without his opponent to have the ability to say "well if you hadn't gottent this item the match could've been different" and so on and so on.

The point is, in a determination of true skill our opinions are always going to be different. I consider pure combat skills to be the determining factor, and you consider the ability to be able to do both the determining factor.

Srsly if only the world shared this view.I couldn't have put it better myself. Well maybe I could have but this is fine

[alloyus]

Originally Posted by dogdude84

Jeez this "argument" has been going on for way too long.

Let's talk about Ganondorf's nicotene addiction. If he cut back from 2 packs a day he would certainly run faster.

LOL XD

[ckj846]

I play both ways. I think that no items does require some more skill than items, but I do find that items are much more fun and enjoyable. When I play with friends, I usually play without items for a bit until we get bored and then we switch on items. I think the problem is that people take the game WAY too seriously and only play to win and to prove that they are better at the game than someone else. For me, it's just having fun in whatever way possible.

I think this goes back to the argument over professional gamers and such. They do it for the winning and the glory of the game. Casual gamers play for fun and to relax or get their mind off things, just playing for a good time. Neither of them is wrong really, I think it just depends what side you're on which determines which side of the argument you are on in terms of items.

I think both ways are fine playing. Just for myself, Final Destination, no items, 4 stock matches get old FAST. Enjoyable for a bit but they get really old.

O_o

[Squeek]

I asked for a reason as to why that list of items makes the game "cheap" and something that enables even a noob to beat a "pro". I don't need an explanation of what they do.

Just assume that barrels and capsules and whatnot do not explode. All you get is that list of items. What makes them so cheap that they can make the clear victor suddenly lose.

You all seem to have this crazy notion that getting an item means an instant victory. Hell, I can name dozens of situations where getting an item has actually made me lose. Hammers are great, right? Hell no. I don't even pick them up. Why? If they break, you're COMPLETELY vulnerable. And yes, the Golden Hammer "breaks" too. In fact I've only gotten two working Golden Hammers out of 10 that I've picked up. Not only that, but you lose your jumps. No second jump, no recovery jump. You're dead if you get hit while holding a hammer. Someone with real skill would be able to exploit the hammer's downsides and make you die rather than stand there like an idiot and get hit by it. But I guess if all you play is Final Destination that becomes a little harder. Had you branched out and noticed the 40 other stages in the game you'd see there are ways you can run away from the hammer-weilder and just sit in a place he can't reach the entire time!

More? Cracker cannon: Cannot double jump. Hard as hell to aim properly in a real match. Likely to just kill themselves. Home-run bat: Takes forever to wind-up now. You can dodge it or counter it so easily. Smart Bombs: These suck ass, especially when they explode on their own. But if you know what you're doing it'll never kill you. You can move your character while in the explosion. Protip: move DOWN. The dragoon is very hard to aim. The Smash Ball doesn't guarantee a victory. Assist Trophies are easy as hell to dodge. Most Pokemon suck (Latias/Latios is a jerk, though). Bunny Hoods are liable to make you kill yourself, as are Metal Boxes. Warp Stars rarely ever hit. Timers and lightning might even affect YOU instead.

So really I don't see anything in the list of items that guarantees a kill.

[korny]

1. Cannon easy as hell to aim what are you talking about.
2. Home run bat is extremely powerful when thrown.
3. Never seen a golden hammer break didn't even know it could happen.
4. Dragoon. I NEVER HAVE MISSED. Not hard to aim at all give me a break.
5. Smart bombs. You can always get smashed into them. happens all the time.
6. Assist trophies easy to dodge? What about that one where the pair of fairy like things
criss cross back and forth through the stage. Nearly impossible to dodge.
7.Pokemon. Latios and latias cannot be excluded as they do the same thing as those fairy
like things i had mentioned. They aren't even the only cheap ones.
8.Timers and lightning whether they affect you or your opponent, Are cheap as hell.
9.Being metal allows you to be less careful about your movements when you have a lot
of damage, making your opponents efforts seem in vain for the time being.

You can just look past these factors as they are the reason i play matches without items.

[zidart]

well even if items are cheap what is really wrong with them??? do they really make a noob win??? but how if even YOU can use them... not only that there's always a place and time to use them.. not just right away (specially the hammer)

pokeballs and assit trophies well some are hard to evade but not a whole lot of them can kill you unless you're stupid enough to get in their way.

seriously one of the "skills" is to know you'r surroundings... if you see a bomb-ob JUST GET AWAY FROM IT >_> is that so hard to do??? (and even if it hits you if you use "skill" you can get a stock back )

timers and lighting can be frustrating at times but that is what makes it fun, and create a twist in the battle.

seriously is ok if you don't like items or you like them, can't you just compromise? i mean the on-line system randomly selects items either off or on and it also makes like a lottery out of the stages, would you be a coward and get out of a battle that has items on DK falls?? seriously, no matter what tourny players say, the fact is that the real best overall player in a game is the one that can play under any rules and any situation.

and by the way.. how about tomorrow between 7PM to 8PM for our match? it could be 3 battles off-items and 3 battles with items.

[korny]

Well i'll be online at that time anyway so i'm sure that'll be fine. There are A LOT of people wanting to play me tomorrow though, so there might be a chance where you'll have to wait a bit.

[zidart]

Originally Posted by korny

Well i'll be online at that time anyway so i'm sure that'll be fine. There are A LOT of people wanting to play me tomorrow though, so there might be a chance where you'll have to wait a bit.

is ok.. that's what basic brawl is for

[korny]

Not that i care but on the item matches are all of them going to be turned on?

[zidart]

Originally Posted by korny

Not that i care but on the item matches are all of them going to be turned on?

well that's kinda the point of it...

and the offitems one will be played on final destination right?

[korny]

I was just wondering that's all. And i guess we can do the itemless on all final destination. Battlefield and a few others will work too though. I don't really care.

[Squeek]

Latias/Latios and Kat/Ana have never killed me.

The most effective Assist Trophy is Lyn since she has the potential to 1HKO you. Almost all of the other ones suck.

My point, that nobody has answered yet, is why you think items shift the balance of power so much that a noob can beat a "pro" 100% of the time just by picking them up.

[korny]

100% of the time is a bit much. I'm just saying that a noob can beat a pro while if they played without them they could NEVER beat a pro.

[zidart]

Originally Posted by korny

100% of the time is a bit much. I'm just saying that a noob can beat a pro while if they played without them they could NEVER beat a pro.

well what if 3 noobs team up to beat the pro??? even in a 4Vs4 battle the random element is there

[korny]

Was that even a serious question? If so, I have no comment because it's an extremely stupid question.

[zidart]

Originally Posted by korny

Was that even a serious question? If so, I have no comment because it's an extremely stupid question.

it wasn't serious but it coul happen...