Super Smash Brothers Brawl

[l2awr]

Originally Posted by Afrobean

Not just accuracy, but also knowing WHEN to throw, being proficient at responding to items (such as knowing what to expect out of your opponent when they get their hands on each sort of item, and also the ability to catch if the circumstance calls for it), and probably the hurdle for you: to feel comfortable with them and think of them as a bonus for you, rather than something which is holding you back.

Peach, Diddy, Dedede, Olimar, ZSS all have items. They just aren't as random and rigged like most of the others. Thats a "skill" any competitive player already has lol...it really isn't HARD at all. The mind games of them is a good "skill", but when a pokeball falls near you when your opponent is off the edge and you throw it down, what skill is that? None at all, sorry.

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by l2awr

Peach, Diddy, Dedede, Olimar, ZSS all have items. They just aren't as random and rigged like most of the others. Thats a "skill" any competitive player already has lol...it really isn't HARD at all. The mind games of them is a good "skill", but when a pokeball falls near you when your opponent is off the edge and you throw it down, what skill is that? None at all, sorry.

...

when a pokeball falls near you when your opponent is off the edge and you throw it down, what skill is that? None at all, sorry.

When did I ever say that required skill?

I even have always said very clearly that many of the items are not fair. Pokeball is one of them.

And the items that characters can "create" are about on par with Mr Saturn. Some of the fairest items there are, but they also seem to be crappier somehow. I'm not sure what it is, but if there was a Mr Saturn in front of me and I could choose that or could spawn a turnip/peel/whatever, I would pick the Mr Saturn.

EDIT: wait a tick. Dedede does not create items, he creates monsters. Cause nobody wants to Marshal no more they want-

Sorry. And Zero Suit Samus? I'm not all that familiar with her full moveset... what is her item?

[korny]

Zero suit samus sheds off the parts to samus's suit at the beginning of the match leaving the broken pieces as items to start throwing from the beginning. They're actually quite powerful.

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by korny

Zero suit samus sheds off the parts to samus's suit at the beginning of the match leaving the broken pieces as items to start throwing from the beginning. They're actually quite powerful.

Really?

I knew she dropped them when she did the final smash to turn into Zero Suit, but I didn't know that she did that at the beginning if you start as Zero Suit. I guess maybe I pay even less attention that I thought I did.

[korny]

Yeah. While they might not do too much damage percentage wise, they have surprising knock back power.

[l2awr]

Originally Posted by Afrobean

...

When did I ever say that required skill?

I even have always said very clearly that many of the items are not fair. Pokeball is one of them.

And the items that characters can "create" are about on par with Mr Saturn. Some of the fairest items there are, but they also seem to be crappier somehow. I'm not sure what it is, but if there was a Mr Saturn in front of me and I could choose that or could spawn a turnip/peel/whatever, I would pick the Mr Saturn.

EDIT: wait a tick. Dedede does not create items, he creates monsters. Cause nobody wants to Marshal no more they want-

Sorry. And Zero Suit Samus? I'm not all that familiar with her full moveset... what is her item?

Dedede has those minions which do the same thing as items lol...Mr. Saturn is okay I guess. They break a shield though, so too many would be pretty weak. Wouldn't you agree that using mind games and finding ways to approach safely and efficiently takes MUCH more skill than keeping a distance and chucking items? Playing without items allows for the most skill/mind games I think.

[korny]

If i were you l2, i'd just stop trying to make a point in this subject. Not that i don't agree with you, but it's never going to get anywhere. I've tried my best trying to prove the same point. People just have different opinions about what makes a determination in real skill fair or not.

[skilledbrawl]

Originally Posted by Jor-Dan_the_greatest

I'm game to fight whoever Im online alot for the next week so just let me know!

name: Zane
maybe u can play me me fc is 2234 7029 2118 and urs is.....?

[travman301]

I don't see how someone can think that using items represent or add to a person's skill.

"Hey look a magical hammer just spawned next to me."

*Kills everyone on stage*

"Omg, another one"

*Kills everyone on stage*

"Woah, I am skilled another big thing that blows up and kills everyone but me"

*Kills everyone*

"Lololol even though I was down 3 lives I still win because I have massive item skill."

How does one find that fair?

[Squeek]

Because we're not talking about ****ing hammers, bombs, pokeballs, or assist trophies.

Read the thread.

And no rawr, I don't agree that playing tricks on opponents = skill. I, along with many others, think that in order to be "good" at a game, you have to be good at the entire game. I differentiate from others in that I say you should be good with every character on every stage with any item switch. AKA, Random, Random, Random.

And oh no the stage killed you and it was an unfair match and the opponent got some cheap item and--

Play best out of three

[korny]

Supposedly you're supposed to have the skill to dodge and avoid things as random as that.

EDIT: How can you not think playing tricks requires skill. Using mindgames to make your opponent fall into what you've intended requires a lot of skill.

[Afrobean]

It's not that item using requires more skill (it clearly doesn't), I was just stating the case that it's the person who is most skilled in both departments that is actually the better player.

In addition, someone who is truly the best player should be able to win most of the time in both a "standard" match, and a match with items on (assuming unfair ones are turned off that is).

Originally Posted by travman

wow lol people are talking items requiring skill i'll butt my head in without paying attention and make the conjecture that people are implying hammer requires skill

You're retarded.

[l2awr]

Originally Posted by travman301

I don't see how someone can think that using items represent or add to a person's skill.

"Hey look a magical hammer just spawned next to me."

*Kills everyone on stage*

"Omg, another one"

*Kills everyone on stage*

"Woah, I am skilled another big thing that blows up and kills everyone but me"

*Kills everyone*

"Lololol even though I was down 3 lives I still win because I have massive item skill."

How does one find that fair?

Because you need Running and dodging skill!

[l2awr]

Originally Posted by Squeek

Because we're not talking about ****ing hammers, bombs, pokeballs, or assist trophies.

Read the thread.

And no rawr, I don't agree that playing tricks on opponents = skill. I, along with many others, think that in order to be "good" at a game, you have to be good at the entire game. I differentiate from others in that I say you should be good with every character on every stage with any item switch. AKA, Random, Random, Random.

You require throwing items skill though? The ability to press over and A and the right time? Oh jeese...

edit: oops dub post

[travman301]

Originally Posted by Afrobean

It's not that item using requires more skill (it clearly doesn't), I was just stating the case that it's the person who is most skilled in both departments that is actually the better player.

In addition, someone who is truly the best player should be able to win most of the time in both a "standard" match, and a match with items on (assuming unfair ones are turned off that is).


You're retarded.

I wasn't saying using the item takes skill at all. I was saying that an item can take an unskilled person and totally throw the match into bull****.

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by travman301

I wasn't saying using the item takes skill at all. I was saying that an item can take an unskilled person and totally throw the match into bull****.

Not all items are unfair though.

When some of us are talking about how item usage is a skill itself, I don't appreciate you coming in here and acting like we're talking about hammers and smart bombs and ****.

[Squeek]

Explain how a Beam Sword, Mr. Saturn, Star Rod, Lip's Stick, Fan, Scope, Ray Gun, Fire Flower, Freezie, Smoke Bomb, Pitfall, Hothead, Soccer Ball, Unira (Spiny thing), Shell, or Banana make a match unfair. Hell I could throw like a dozen more things in there but you'd go bat**** insane on me.

l2: There's a lot of skill that goes into throwing items. You have to know how an item will work in gravity. Some go slow, some bounce, some speed across. You have to throw up, down, across, into walls, over other people, etc. You have to throw in a way they won't know to catch it, yet still get them hit so you can run in and start wailing on them.

If I ever get a really nice item demonstration saved on Replay, I'll be sure to send it your way.

[korny]

I don't want to explain it. Because it's not worth the amount of time the argument is going to take knowing that it's not going to go anywhere.

[dogdude84]

Jeez this "argument" has been going on for way too long.

Let's talk about Ganondorf's nicotene addiction. If he cut back from 2 packs a day he would certainly run faster.

[Squeek]

No, seriously. Explain it. Now.

And Korny, I wasn't even asking you, but ok.