TWG CLXIV: Classics Man - Game Thread

[AragakiAyase]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Yes. All through our interactions yesterday(last phasr)(especially concerning Raeko), I've felt that you've been intentionally making leaps of logic in responding to my posts, misrepresenting my statements, and confusing the matter further by refusing to acknowledge your misinterpretations.
I've never had an issue communicating my ideas to you before, and I'd expect you to acknowledge it when you misconstrue my words and are corrected. Instead, you've only used my attempts to get through to you to further paint me as a wolf.

That all also ties in with my expectation that you'd be more open minded as town. Instead, just this phase you asked everyone to vote only between us, confident in being able to produce a mislynch.

can we look at this more

why the hell wouldn't you push me more yesterday if you felt this strongly? you said you felt like I was misinterpreting some of your stuff, sure. to me that's a very wolfy trait, and I think you feel the same way as town. so why not push more on that? and that "aa is solidly pro-town" line is super incriminating, makes it seem like you're only going back to this now that you have a chance because I look worse because of DBP vote

[thesunfan]

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

Xel is trending down because of lack of content and (even though Charu baited for it) I don't like that the most he's done is vote Charu. It feels like he was posting more doing FF and that's not a good look for him.

DPB trending up because of an influx of post as he re-reads

AA is trending up because of Shado v AA interaction

You're just kind of null and I don't know where to place you

Freezin is null and I feel that gimmick is nothing but a hindrance to town.

Leaving Raeko alone for right now.

Witch is trending down for not popping in

Roundbox is also absent but I feel it's somewhat expected of him. Maybe a double standard? IDK. Guess he's null

Haku is still town

Shado is starting to lose it and I don't know what to think. Was trending down for awhile but now it's just at a point where I can probably believe a town Shado is just getting frustrated. I don't know that flip he did looks bad in either light so wolf lean

Charu is taking the back seat and that's something I remember him doing as town although I wish he'll be more active.

---

You're normally alot more calm and collect in posts. I don't know if I've ever seen you use fuck, not like that anyway.

Worded poorly, I do want to see more Proph in thread, but I also have a town impression from him while he was here.

I went from "likely town" to "idk where to place you" only progression here is because I said fuck, apparently

I agree with DBP trending up at the time, I'm fine with him having Xel trending down, the read on roundbox and his exact wording on Haku being same in the 2 posts.

other stuff complaining about people not being here is lar-like and the expansion on proph (I legit forgot I already pinged lar for that read lmao) is something I can look past

[thesunfan]

I feel shado is not the only person to do that to you, AA
I think there are probably wolves in people who shelved most of the blame of DBP's death on you instead of me
agreed or no?

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase

yes I clearly can see that you haven't liked me in this post



yeah it's really clear, about as clear as a rock

why not mention any of that when you were restating your reads? wolf

Cherrypicking at its finest.
You looked a lot better at the time, and had assuaged my earlier stated worries about your intentions for continuously "misunderstanding" me and misconstruing my posts. Your voteswitch just served to reignite my earlier suspicions.
If I was a wolf, don't you think I would've left myself something better than "maintain tinfoil" considering my grand master plan to vote you, of all people, after the upcoming mislynch?

[AragakiAyase]

I think if I'm wrong on one of my top towns, it would actually be MML because I think I haven't seen him make a strong push on someone yet aside from raeko

but I'm literally only voting shado today so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[thesunfan]

gonna shower bbl

[AragakiAyase]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Cherrypicking at its finest.
You looked a lot better at the time, and had assuaged my earlier stated worries about your intentions for continuously "misunderstanding" me and misconstruing my posts. Your voteswitch just served to reignite my earlier suspicions.
If I was a wolf, don't you think I would've left myself something better than "maintain tinfoil" considering my grand master plan to vote you, of all people, after the upcoming mislynch?

I think wolf you does exactly that knowing that most of the wagons were town and you could easily push on me for mislynching

when guess what? towns mislynch plenty too

you barely pushed me at all for your supposed suspicions of me, you said I was misinterpreting your stuff and that was that pretty much. once I stopped pushing you, you stopped pushing me and I don't think you'd do that if you really felt I was twisting what you said.

[AragakiAyase]

Originally Posted by thesunfan

I feel shado is not the only person to do that to you, AA
I think there are probably wolves in people who shelved most of the blame of DBP's death on you instead of me
agreed or no?

idk, my vote looks the worst because ffr forums are dumb. witch thought I looked bad because of it? haku too? idk if anyone else did, but I think haku is 99.9% town and witch feels like he's thinking about it

[thesunfan]

I thought jade was in there too but I might be wrong

[ShadoWolfe]

Also, glass is a state of matter that can be formed from exposing certain rocks to high temperatures before cooling them rapidly. The result can be exceptionally clear.

..if you're willing to see it.

[AragakiAyase]

here's one thing you still haven't addressed

why don't you interact with mellon after you were supposedly pushing her hard for lack of content, she produces actual content, and then you never touch any of it? and then end up with "lackluster" and "defense, reaction, disappear". this is incredibly similar to what you pulled on dfr when he was town and you were wolf. you metad him and then hung him out to dry with a scumread. here you supposedly didn't have a scumread on mellon; I don't buy that, it sure seemed like you were trying to start a wagon on her that didn't gain traction so you abandoned it. but regardless of that, you still don't interact with her

[AragakiAyase]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Also, glass is a state of matter that can be formed from exposing certain rocks to high temperatures before cooling them rapidly. The result can be exceptionally clear.

..if you're willing to see it.

ok

but you're not a rock exposed to high temperatures and cooled rapidly, you're a rock rolling down the hill looking to roll over anyone you can before you hit the bottom and vanish into the abyss

[AragakiAyase]

disappointed that roundbox, xel, and jade aren't posting much

MML too fwiw

[AragakiAyase]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

........ You need to read the thread, dude.
Yes, I think AA is a wolf. Theres the tiniest of tiny chances he's an extremely misguided town, but I really doubt it.
I don't like sunfan very much, either, but I'm less sure about him today than I was yesterday.
I thought Witch was AAs partner because of his vote, but I'm going to have to check the timeline of pressure on her first. Sunfan and AA said that she wouldn't have been up for lynch if it weren't for AA, so I want to verify that before coming back with a harder read on her.
Xel and Roundbox follow those three closely, but you should really go back and read the thread for more info. Do you know when you'll be able to put some time into this? I'd really like to read your thoughts in some detail at some point..

what makes you less sure about sunfan today than yesterday? also waiting for you to verify what sunfan said about me pushing witch

because just fyi, when you verify that your whole theory about me saving witch goes out the window

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase

ok

but you're not a rock exposed to high temperatures and cooled rapidly, you're a rock rolling down the hill looking to roll over anyone you can before you hit the bottom and vanish into the abyss

Hahahahaha oh my good this was hilarious
Thanks for making my day a bit better

Although, if that's true, then you're the silhouette standing next to the lever at the top of the hill. And, since I'm a rock, I can't control my momentum or direction of travek and therefore I'm not looking to roll anyone over. I'm just screaming about the dude(s) who pushed me so that people can track him down once I fall off and vanish into the abyss.

[Hakulyte]

Unrelated, but.. @Xel

This Game:

Originally Posted by XelNya

i'm not on edge you little shit

Originally Posted by XelNya

Xel sits, at 4:40 am in the morning. He waits, for a match of Overwatch.

Originally Posted by XelNya

He realizes, this isn't a good idea. He's 1 - 2. He's just won a game by wrecking as Tracer, and then moving to Ana. Mostly because of turret cunt.

Originally Posted by XelNya

He's been waiting for a full minute and forty seconds. This is absurd. Much like the amount of shit posts in this thread.

It's actually been two minutes.

Originally Posted by XelNya

Xel realizes, he even had time to spell out numbers properly in queue.

Originally Posted by XelNya

He complains, knowing, no one in this game actually cares. They probably just see this and are reminded of last game.

A pity.

Originally Posted by XelNya

He has found his next game.

This has been waiting in queue with Xel.

====================

A&A Game: (as wolf)

Originally Posted by XelNya

Xel sits alone, in a wendys, eating his food, and type into this game.

He wonders, "what am I doing with my life?" As he slowly consumes his food.

Originally Posted by XelNya

Xel slowly sips his cherry dr. pepper.

He ponders a monent, and posts.

Originally Posted by XelNya

Xel finishes off his cherry dr. pepper, he sees those wonderful, fresh, french fries, and opts to eat them. Lathering each one in ketchup, before consumption.

Originally Posted by XelNya

Xel decides to take a picture, so he can remember the good times.

Originally Posted by XelNya

Xel finishes the fries. He gets up, refills his deink, he enjoys a sip out of it, he fills it full again, and leaves.

This has been dinner with Xel.

Conclusion:

I know what you're going to say, but really, that's exactly why it's suspicious.

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase

here's one thing you still haven't addressed

why don't you interact with mellon after you were supposedly pushing her hard for lack of content, she produces actual content, and then you never touch any of it? and then end up with "lackluster" and "defense, reaction, disappear". this is incredibly similar to what you pulled on dfr when he was town and you were wolf. you metad him and then hung him out to dry with a scumread. here you supposedly didn't have a scumread on mellon; I don't buy that, it sure seemed like you were trying to start a wagon on her that didn't gain traction so you abandoned it. but regardless of that, you still don't interact with her

I did address this. Both the part about starting a wagon that didnt gain traction (people were disagreeing with me before I even voted) and the part about her content. I wasn't trying to start a wagon, the vote wasn't for anyone other than her because she explicitly said it was the only way to pressure her. I literally just wanted her to post more. I tried to spell that out as much as possible for everyone else with the a) b) c) post because I know you guys like to take votes out of context. This same fucking thing happened to me in CLIX with my reactiontest push on Freezin that nobody believed. Sunfan even said he thinks I'm lying about my motives in voting Raeko as either alignment!?!?!
Either way, I addressed this last night and I'm sorta surprised you haven't read it already (surprising as either alignment).

[thesunfan]

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

rolf is Haju seriously nailing Xel down on the BBQ pit? That's good stuff.

makes me think that in the event that Lar is a wolf, I don't think Xel is with him

[AragakiAyase]

I think more data to show that shado is a wolf is in order, this is from CLIX where he had a scumread on freezin. not going to narrate, come to your own conclusion

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

You were making fun of Haku. Gradiant's always got a boner for jokes involving Haku lol it's kind of funny to watch.

I like what's going on so far, though. This FreezinIce/Gradi exchange is beautiful, and I'm actually thinking Gradiant is townier for it. FreezinIce looks bad from it, tbh, and I don't like what (he?)'s doing here. Will provide reasons shortly, but wanna ping FreezinIce first

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

No response from FreezinIce yet, but I really don't like this progression:

He goes from pushing on Gradiant for a pressure vote (reasoning: reaching),




To backing off slightly, while "keeping note" when questioned why he's reacting to one vote:



to an all out defense mode:




to hopping on the Haku wagon instammediately when pressured:




It reads like wolf seeing an opening, realizing it wasn't easy, and getting out while he could, right onto the easier target.

FreezeInIce

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Oh? How's that?

What'd I make up?

I literally took your posts as is and quoted them in order. If you don't like them, maybe you shouldn't have made them in the first place?

Please do make an effort to tell me why I'm wrong, though.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Also:

Oh? Then what's all this about "keeping note", "reaching hard", and "coming off as too alarmed"?

ALSO:


It's*, You're*, It's* ;P

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

He's got an early vote parked on Hakulyte right now. Isn't that suspicious? Why do you keep saying you don't think he's suspicious even while saying you do?

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Fair enough. Unvote.

Thanks fam, but you've gotta remember that periods(addressed), colons, and question marks all count as punctuation. IDRC about that shit tbh, but you were talking about how annoying I was so I figured I might as well make it count.


By the way, I had all that ^ written before this latest interaction, but your last post gave me fuel for one last push



I read that post, actually. It's even in my notes.
Nice to meet you, by the way. It's a pleasure to make your acquaintance, although I'm sure the pleasure isn't fully mutual at the moment :P

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

I'm going to have to reread later, but I gave him towny points for that whole exchange last night. When I pushed on him repeatedly, his responses seemed natural. I didn't like the fact that he refused to acknowledge calling you suspicious at all, but still looked town for the exchange.

His tone/attitude shift wasn't suspicious to me, though, because I was the one who initiated it. I went from, "you're fucking scummy!" to "It's nice to meet you, /unvote" in one post, so it also seemed natural that his tone would shift in responsr to mine.

I think you're pushing on town rn tbh, but there's no harm in that because it lets us all decide where the both of you stand and continues to generate useful info.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Yeah, I was gonna ask you where you seemed to have gotten the idea that I was misquoting Freezin and leaving out context in order to suit a predetermined agenda, but you followed up with an admission of having misread it, so I'm cool off that.

I'm confused as to how that post would strike you as weird and out of nowhere, though. I said all this before, but I had read Gradiant's push on Haku as a town-aligned push to see how Haku would respond under pressure. Then, out of nowhere, freezinIce had called him out on it and made a big deal, and his progression seemed really really weird to me. I isolated his posts to better see where he stood, and, as I said in the post you find so weird, he went from one extreme to the other pretty quickly, so I noted it and pushed him (with a vote and a callout). Once I was satisfied that his defense seemed genuine (despite refusing to admit his fault), I backed off and stated why I had done so.

I've said all this before, though, so it seems a bit odd to me that you'd think my push on Freezin is so odd and out of nowhere...



This, on the other hand, I can totally agree with!

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

1. inDheart

Wolfish. I thought he was townie, but an ISO of his posts led me to the realization that aside from early speculation about Charu (including a shitty VT one), and posts about sweaters (birds), and shitposts, his only real posts were various jumps on the freezin wagon, and speculations about Haku's defensiveness. While he normally strikes me as a very independent player, he looks like he's just playing to shitpost until real shit happens react and play off of other people's thoughts. On re-reading, he jumped to the top of my list of suspicious players. I'm not liking his game at all right now.

2. Hakulyte

Townish. Haku always shitposts, with the exception of last game's fuckaround as town. This game seems to have gone back to shitpostiness, except there's enough slips in here to make a banana look bad, including two about how we should "wait until (Haku) does more slips like that". Despite that, though, I'm leaning town on this one based on tone and reactions. Also, lol at his attempt of a readlist ninja.

3. R.E. Aryxi

Null. His two posts have both been about how he can't post, and I'm willing to believe that for now. He apologized for "things not going as well as he had expected".

4. SurelyWolfe

Your Supreme Overlord and Leader, His Exalted Holiness, Saviour of Towns, Destroyer of Wolves, King of all Wolfes, Master of All, Kim Jong-il's reincarnation (let's face it, Jong-un is weaksauce), and ShadoW Ruler of the People's Republic of TWG. Bow down, you heathen scum. Deus Vult.

5. danceflashrevo

Null, lean townish. He needs to post more, but his content in the FIVE posts he did make seemed to lean townish. He said he wasn't caught up, but he did comment on a few of us with what seemed like real thoughts, so that was decent. Not enough info to really come to a conclusion here though, so Null for now.

6. Charu

Town. Somehow managed to get himself the "Wolfe" role we were talking about in deadchat last game. Lynchproof+Bulletproof, only problem is he doesn't have the daychecks that would make him a real OP. I'm officially declaring him Serperior after game ends if he's town, or Servine if he flips wolf. Odds of him being wolf are extremely unlikely though. He has two or three days to get fully confirmed, because PR will be an idiot to not CC by then if he's lying.

7. Gradiant

Townish. Seems to be putting pressure in the right places, for the right things. Finding openings and creating discussion about them. I like to see this playstyle in town, but he has to be careful not to take it too far. A pressure vote is nice until you get emotional or carried away and start tunnelling. His post history verifies this behavior, but I can't help but shake the feeling he's trying to pocket me with all of the defending me against both Freez and Mellon. Either way, I'd say that while he might come off as abrasive to some, that abrasiveness seems to be intentional in order to get reactions, which further verifies my townlean on him.

8. FreezinIce

Null, still making up my mind, leaning wolfish. He seemed okay until he parked a vote on Gradiant for "being aggressive". Seems to not understand the concept of pressure votes (i.e. Gradiant, myself on him), then says that he's voting Gradiant to put pressure on him because nobody else wants to engage him. Unsure, because I haven't played with him before, but his posts also seem kind of hesitant. I've also mentioned this before, but when confronted about his early suspicion of Gradiant, he continued to insist that there was no suspicion, which also makes me see the weird hesitance/flipfloppiness that I often see in wolves. Still waiting on this one, though, could just be bad town I guess. Wish he had more recent games I could reference.

9. DaBackpack

Townish. He came in rather late, which is like his standard wolfmeta, but then started actually posting on-point critiques. Found Gradi/Freez to be TvT, which I agreed with at the time (before Freez started acting even stranger than before) and was mindmelding with him on the Precarious issue as well. I'm leaning town because I totally get where he's coming from (mindmeld) and his thoughts and articulation seems very genuine. Also, bonus points for starting a wagon (Precarious), and providing solid reasoning behind it. I'm liking him for now.

10. Precarious

Null, leaning townish. I thought I liked him, because I didn't think that he'd pull the same robotic meta twice in a row as wolf, but pushing Haku using typical Hakuposts, and the Charu slip made me reconsider. Upon re-reading, I found that, while I normally mindmeld with Precarious' posts (both the mechanic ones and his typical logic), I haven't really felt that way this game, with the exception of one post (#388). I don't like the vote on DBP, either. I had him as "Wolfish", but re-reading has made me feel a lot better in that he's consistent in his stated thoughts, his logic is actually not as bad as I remembered, and that his posts seemed more genuine than I first gave him credit for. That all led to his current null, bud I'd definitely like to hear more from him before EoD.

11. Roundbox

Null. He's like a distant relation that remembers to check in once in a blue moon to send the briefest letters and vanish. At 7 posts, but being up to date, he really needs to step up his game. At least the couple of shit he did say seemed to ring true in my mind, so I'll give him some town points for that.

12. Botchi246

Null. What the fuck ho, you're even worse than roundbox in posts. You've posted four posts total, and all of them have been shit. This is shitty. Step up your game and actually share some shit. You're dangerously close to being beaten out by AA in terms of posts, and he's the fucking moderator.

13. XelNya

Leaning townish. He's posting in the same bullshit style he often does, but his interactions seem genuine and he went out of his way to address a read request that I had abandoned entirely. Not sure of this one, but feeling good.

14. juckter1

Null, leaning wolfish. I liked his towngame last game, and this isn't it. His reads seem alright though, but he said things like "I've read stuff now" and "kay, time to be more active", and then didn't do much. Two reads lists with 3-4 people and hardly any meat to them, then says "I'm too bad to read outside of the people I've mentioned". Talks about ISOing freez and comes back with absolutely nothing, citing his shittiness as a player again. That seemed towny to me at first, because I feel like a wolf would just make some shit up, but then it also tells me he might not have even bothered to ISO anything, which would be wolfish.

15. mellonxcollie

Null, leaning townish. Tone sounds townie, but I haven't played with her before and the one interaction she's really had was about her finding my pressure vote weird. She gets bonus points for retracting a suspicion as soon as she reread, but that could go either way. I'm content with Nulling her for now, but I'd like to see more of her soon.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Wow, this is actually funny to me, Freezin. No, Gradiant, that's not why I backed off at all. Like I said earlier, I was pushing on him for pressure to test his reaction because I saw a very bad progression of "logic" in his posts, in the initial interaction with you. I highlighted that progression (attacking you for attacking Haku, backing off and going on the defensive when you push him back about it, then joining in on being critical/suspicious of Haku, when he was just attacking you for doing the same thing) to check out his response, because I wasn't too suspicious of him going in. I even voted him as a further push to try to get a clear, unfiltered response to being pushed, and the the tone of his responses made me think he was genuinely a town who didn't intend to come off the way he came off. He kept insisting he wasn't suspicious of you at all, and hence it wasn't "backing off", which I still refuse to believe and made a note of in thread and out. I then unvoted because I had gotten what I came for (his reaction, which seemed towny). I didn't want to push further than that on someone who, at that time, seemed towny to me, because he had already responded to the basis for my vote, and anything further in that vein would lead to groundless mudslinging with no actual supporting evidence that hadn't already been covered.

This is my third time explaining the same event, FreezinIce. I somehow doubt you didn't bother reading either of the other two posts and I doubt further that you, even for a minute, sincerely believed that I had backed off because I wanted to "cut my losses". It's crazy, but the more you try to reach for defenses, the scummier you seem.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

-sigh-
Okay, when someone accuses you of being wolfish for x reason, and your response is calling them suspicious and then citing the same exact reason, it's not called a mindmeld, it's called omgus. It's not a mindmeld because the two of you are NOT thinking the same thing at all. You're thinking opposite things. Proof being that only one of you are right.

Secondly, FreezinIce didn't debunk shit. He's been on the defensive all game, which he himself has noted, so much so that he "hasn't been scumhunting at all" because he got caught up in the argument.

Finally, can you see why your response to my read on you is only highlighting your scumminess? I made a deduction based on an ISO of your post, and your response has been garbage. Oh. My. God. You. Suck. Maybe actually put some damned effort into the game before trying to come at me with that weak shit..

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Since you're awake and present, what do you think of inDheart (and myself, if you wish) given the present situation? Please do answer this before going to bed.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

I'll likely be around until about 4pm server time tomorrow, and I'll do my best to check my phone if the patrons of my fine establishment give me enough of a pause to do so. If anyone's got any issues with me they'd like to bring up, kindly do so before then to allow me to respond and address your concerns.
Alright, let's gooo! Reads, everyone.

To start, I'd say the list I shared earlier is still fairly up to date, and you can find it here: http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...&postcount=440

What's changed is that I'm liking DaBackpack a lot less now. Ironically, the cause of the shift in my read of him was inDheart calling me out on basing a read on nothing but a mindmeld. I re-read his posts, and while I still agree with the majority of judgments he shared (freez, Gradi, precarious at the time), I realized he hasn't actually done, either, other than make those judgments and push semi-lazily on Precarious. He also said he wasn't putting effort in, but that he'd provide a reads list in his next post, then proceeded to post about other stuff until now. Even now, he came into thread tonight to remind us that he's got some "hot fresh reads" for us in the morning. I don't like this, and it seems as though the laziness in his posts may be attributed to a wolf DBP posting a bit and half-heartedly a player, in an attempt to differ from his wolf-meta. This is WIFOM, though, so I'm wary of placing too much faith in it. Still, he's on the table for me until those reads are up like he promised.
I'm liking botchi more after coming in and posting, but that's just off memory right now because nothing seemed suspicious to me there. Not much actual contribution still, but he's trolling in a genuine manner, and that seems like normal botchi to me.
Roundbox I'm liking less, because he's had plenty of opportunity to come in and post, and he's posted at various times that showed he was at least semi-up-to-date, but he still hasn't bothered to do any hunting at all. That's either extremely lazy, or.. well, probably just lazy, but I like him less for it. The couple of contributions that stuck out were randomly declaring people town, and then at some point reminding us that the SK is out there. I refuse to read into his SK-reference, because it's just so much WIFOM, but yes he needs to get off his ass because he's on the table for sheer willful inactivity at this point.
I'm liking Freezin even less now that some time has passed and he's posted some more. I can't help but see a dissonance in his posts with stated intentions, tone, and actions throughout this entire phase.
mellon and precarious are both still undecided, but their exchange was so mindnumbingly repetitive that I couldn't help but think them both town for it, because I think wolves would start reaching for dirt to sling after the third post of the same argument.
I also can't wait for Zenith to get in here and start posting, because that slot needs to start generating some content.

If EoD were in 30 minutes, the players on the table for me would be inDheart, Freezin, DBP, and roundbox, but not necessarily in that order. Botchi and XelNya should both be on there in terms of actual contribution alone, but I'm hesitant to lynch either of them D0 just for trolling, because that's consistent with their respective personas.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Fine, doesnt look like inDheart is getting lynched and FreeInIce has been wieird all game

and here's his scumread of indheart and how he treats him

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

What does this mean? Are you saying you suspect them of being a scum team?

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

1. inDheart

Wolfish. I thought he was townie, but an ISO of his posts led me to the realization that aside from early speculation about Charu (including a shitty VT one), and posts about sweaters (birds), and shitposts, his only real posts were various jumps on the freezin wagon, and speculations about Haku's defensiveness. While he normally strikes me as a very independent player, he looks like he's just playing to shitpost until real shit happens react and play off of other people's thoughts. On re-reading, he jumped to the top of my list of suspicious players. I'm not liking his game at all right now.

2. Hakulyte

Townish. Haku always shitposts, with the exception of last game's fuckaround as town. This game seems to have gone back to shitpostiness, except there's enough slips in here to make a banana look bad, including two about how we should "wait until (Haku) does more slips like that". Despite that, though, I'm leaning town on this one based on tone and reactions. Also, lol at his attempt of a readlist ninja.

3. R.E. Aryxi

Null. His two posts have both been about how he can't post, and I'm willing to believe that for now. He apologized for "things not going as well as he had expected".

4. SurelyWolfe

Your Supreme Overlord and Leader, His Exalted Holiness, Saviour of Towns, Destroyer of Wolves, King of all Wolfes, Master of All, Kim Jong-il's reincarnation (let's face it, Jong-un is weaksauce), and ShadoW Ruler of the People's Republic of TWG. Bow down, you heathen scum. Deus Vult.

5. danceflashrevo

Null, lean townish. He needs to post more, but his content in the FIVE posts he did make seemed to lean townish. He said he wasn't caught up, but he did comment on a few of us with what seemed like real thoughts, so that was decent. Not enough info to really come to a conclusion here though, so Null for now.

6. Charu

Town. Somehow managed to get himself the "Wolfe" role we were talking about in deadchat last game. Lynchproof+Bulletproof, only problem is he doesn't have the daychecks that would make him a real OP. I'm officially declaring him Serperior after game ends if he's town, or Servine if he flips wolf. Odds of him being wolf are extremely unlikely though. He has two or three days to get fully confirmed, because PR will be an idiot to not CC by then if he's lying.

7. Gradiant

Townish. Seems to be putting pressure in the right places, for the right things. Finding openings and creating discussion about them. I like to see this playstyle in town, but he has to be careful not to take it too far. A pressure vote is nice until you get emotional or carried away and start tunnelling. His post history verifies this behavior, but I can't help but shake the feeling he's trying to pocket me with all of the defending me against both Freez and Mellon. Either way, I'd say that while he might come off as abrasive to some, that abrasiveness seems to be intentional in order to get reactions, which further verifies my townlean on him.

8. FreezinIce

Null, still making up my mind, leaning wolfish. He seemed okay until he parked a vote on Gradiant for "being aggressive". Seems to not understand the concept of pressure votes (i.e. Gradiant, myself on him), then says that he's voting Gradiant to put pressure on him because nobody else wants to engage him. Unsure, because I haven't played with him before, but his posts also seem kind of hesitant. I've also mentioned this before, but when confronted about his early suspicion of Gradiant, he continued to insist that there was no suspicion, which also makes me see the weird hesitance/flipfloppiness that I often see in wolves. Still waiting on this one, though, could just be bad town I guess. Wish he had more recent games I could reference.

9. DaBackpack

Townish. He came in rather late, which is like his standard wolfmeta, but then started actually posting on-point critiques. Found Gradi/Freez to be TvT, which I agreed with at the time (before Freez started acting even stranger than before) and was mindmelding with him on the Precarious issue as well. I'm leaning town because I totally get where he's coming from (mindmeld) and his thoughts and articulation seems very genuine. Also, bonus points for starting a wagon (Precarious), and providing solid reasoning behind it. I'm liking him for now.

10. Precarious

Null, leaning townish. I thought I liked him, because I didn't think that he'd pull the same robotic meta twice in a row as wolf, but pushing Haku using typical Hakuposts, and the Charu slip made me reconsider. Upon re-reading, I found that, while I normally mindmeld with Precarious' posts (both the mechanic ones and his typical logic), I haven't really felt that way this game, with the exception of one post (#388). I don't like the vote on DBP, either. I had him as "Wolfish", but re-reading has made me feel a lot better in that he's consistent in his stated thoughts, his logic is actually not as bad as I remembered, and that his posts seemed more genuine than I first gave him credit for. That all led to his current null, bud I'd definitely like to hear more from him before EoD.

11. Roundbox

Null. He's like a distant relation that remembers to check in once in a blue moon to send the briefest letters and vanish. At 7 posts, but being up to date, he really needs to step up his game. At least the couple of shit he did say seemed to ring true in my mind, so I'll give him some town points for that.

12. Botchi246

Null. What the fuck ho, you're even worse than roundbox in posts. You've posted four posts total, and all of them have been shit. This is shitty. Step up your game and actually share some shit. You're dangerously close to being beaten out by AA in terms of posts, and he's the fucking moderator.

13. XelNya

Leaning townish. He's posting in the same bullshit style he often does, but his interactions seem genuine and he went out of his way to address a read request that I had abandoned entirely. Not sure of this one, but feeling good.

14. juckter1

Null, leaning wolfish. I liked his towngame last game, and this isn't it. His reads seem alright though, but he said things like "I've read stuff now" and "kay, time to be more active", and then didn't do much. Two reads lists with 3-4 people and hardly any meat to them, then says "I'm too bad to read outside of the people I've mentioned". Talks about ISOing freez and comes back with absolutely nothing, citing his shittiness as a player again. That seemed towny to me at first, because I feel like a wolf would just make some shit up, but then it also tells me he might not have even bothered to ISO anything, which would be wolfish.

15. mellonxcollie

Null, leaning townish. Tone sounds townie, but I haven't played with her before and the one interaction she's really had was about her finding my pressure vote weird. She gets bonus points for retracting a suspicion as soon as she reread, but that could go either way. I'm content with Nulling her for now, but I'd like to see more of her soon.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

LMAO
That actually sounds familiar, inDheart. Almost like you took my exact argument against you and tried to flip it. Want an example of me starting a battle? My read on you.

Not even gonna touch the sociopathic part or whether this is usually what I do, because your premise is totally flawed. Get wrecked, son.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

-sigh-
Okay, when someone accuses you of being wolfish for x reason, and your response is calling them suspicious and then citing the same exact reason, it's not called a mindmeld, it's called omgus. It's not a mindmeld because the two of you are NOT thinking the same thing at all. You're thinking opposite things. Proof being that only one of you are right.

Secondly, FreezinIce didn't debunk shit. He's been on the defensive all game, which he himself has noted, so much so that he "hasn't been scumhunting at all" because he got caught up in the argument.

Finally, can you see why your response to my read on you is only highlighting your scumminess? I made a deduction based on an ISO of your post, and your response has been garbage. Oh. My. God. You. Suck. Maybe actually put some damned effort into the game before trying to come at me with that weak shit..

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

inDheart
Contemplated this, still don't see anyone scummier.
Bye, Felicia.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

I actually look forward to this. Take your time. Except, you know, don't go past your bedtime.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Also, I love how my direct response to your bullshit is apparently "distraction and distortion" in your mind.
No shit you're going to have to put the work in, that's what TWG is. Putting in the work is the only way I found you in the first place, wolf.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

What's funniest is that I'm sitting here waiting for inDheart to finish ISOing me in an effort to dig up dirt. The reason that's funny is that his intention spells it all out. He realized he "has to put in the work" to dig up dirt on me, so he's ISOing with that intention from the get-go. As town, ISOing posts in order to prove the conclusion you've already reached should never happen. You ISO to find more information, then make up your mind based on the information. It's even funnier because when I ISOd his posts, I went in thinking he was town, and ended up changing my read to wolf based on what I read. Doesn't that kind of tell it all, already?

Oooh, I can't wait!

HEE HEE HEEEE

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Oh, that's fine. As long as I'm getting the juicy ISO you promised tonight and you won't leave before you post it because of your deadline, then by all means take your time.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Since you're awake and present, what do you think of inDheart (and myself, if you wish) given the present situation? Please do answer this before going to bed.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Wait, was the point of this massive post, 90 minute ISO, and energy expended, all simply to tell me, "you look like a fool"? Because I see no mention of how any of this makes me look scummy..

Wow, talk about a wasted effort.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

I wasn't pinging him like "OH hey, you're not responding to me so this is a reminder", I was pinging him to get his attention and maybe a "Yes, Wolfe?" before posting my thing. I ping so that the person doesn't leave while I format the post. I would think you'd know this though, after spending 90 minutes reading my posts. Here's what I told mellon on the topic: "Jumping in strong is the best way to gauge reactions and get reads, imo. I do it all the time, as you'll see throughout this game and any future game you play with me. If I call out your name, you can be sure my next post will involve some dirt I've got on you that I'd like you to play with and clarify for me."

Stated my reasoning for the push and vote on Freez three times already. I'd tell to go read my posts, but you're supposed to have already done more than your share of that.


I don't know what your last sentence means, but I'll address the rest of this. As I've said three times, I unvoted him because of his tone and because he seemed genuine. I even stated this in my very next post, with the note that I still don't believe he didn't find Gradiant suspicious, but that his reaction seemed genuine, and that he didn't seem wolfy enough to keep sustaining a vote on him. I've also shared my reasoning with mellon, and again with Gradi and Freez pretty recently. At this point, you're beating a dead horse.



Lol what narrative are you talking about? If it's that Freezin seemed wolfy there, clearly Gradiant hasn't moved past it, and neither has freez. If it's my reasoning for my push that you're referring to, then, even Freez said my narrative was more believable than the one you're somehow continuing to choke on. mellon said my post was bad, then realized she had misread it entirely and retracted that. Her only complaint was that my initial callout came out of nowhere, which I've addressed in the quote above, under your first quote block. Again, this is all stuff that's been addressed, so I'm actually disappointed in you for wasting your time and mine with this, especially since you should've read all the posts addressing it by now.


What are you even getting at, here? You seem to be confused. I thought Freez "slaughtered" me? Is this massive post just to spout this weak ad hominem? I didn't come off looking like a fool because I wasn't one. I got what I wanted from Freez, and then moved on to better resources. I've been gathering info, what have you been doing? I don't get how I'm supposed to be looking like a fool here, but hey, your posts kind of indicate that you're living in own world to begin with.


I was thinking we were mindmelding from DBPs first real post, which was about Freez and Gradi being TvT. At that point, I was reading Freezin as pretty towny, especially after re-reading our interaction. You know, hence the unvote? But yeah, I liked DBPs post about TvT, then he eventually follows up with something I had noted about Precarious, which was that his posts had been exclusively covering the Charu topic. I hadn't brought it up because I figured Precarious would've started posting about other things at some point, but he didn't by the time DBP brought it up, so I seconded the vote because I felt that Precarious needed more pressure than just one vote, and because I wanted Precarious to actually start posting. Guess what? It worked, and his followup posts caused me to lean him townish, as I've already covered in my reads. My vote on you is actually the first vote I've made in this game that was seriously because I think I've found a wolf, and not just for pressure. I didn't vote right after posting my reads because I figured you might come back and change my mind, but your response has been extraordinarily scummy, for reasons I've already covered while you were spending 90 minutes going through all of my posts with the intention of finding any mud you could sling my way. Definitely keeping this vote for now.



This is the most relevant thing you've said in game so far, and it didn't even require much of your time or energy (I hope). Keep it up!

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Lol sure, an interesting reaction. This is when you had acknowledged reading my post of you, and then cited almost word for word my reasoning for reading you wolfish in your read of me, when it wasn't even applicable to me at all (pointed this out before your ISO, and it still stands). I'd hardly call that an "uninformed first impression based on pretty much memory".



Didn't see this before responding, but I had actually addressed one of those in my interaction with mellon, which you should've seen in your ISO because you brought up mellon specifically. Answered the other for you, though.

Funny that you bring up not searching for it as a foregone conclusion, after I bring up how scummy it is to ISO looking for dirt to prove your conclusion, after you made it seem like that was exactly what you were doing. Idk, I could just be tunnelling so I'mma give you the benefit of the doubt here.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

On my phone, but I'ma try to address some things real quick. I get called aggressive every game, so that doesn't really mean a lot to me. I was mislynched for being aggressive last game, which you were in. I don't see myself as extremely aggressive this game, although I can see how pushes can come off as that. If you're just referring to the inDheart interaction, though, then I can see where you're coming from. That said, I'd like to note that I wasnt aggressive in my initial response to him, just surprised that he had tried to exculpate himself from my read on him by saying the same exact thing about me. His calling that behavior sociopathic was kind of annoying, so I added "get wrecked, son" to annoy him back. He responded with insults and a promise to dig up dirt, which seemed weird considering that looking for evidence shouldnt follow a conclusion you've already reached. I see now that "get wrecked, son" mightve been the trigger for his response, but his whole reaction seemed weird, especially the part where he read my read of him and responded with the same exact "read" of me, which even he admitted later was based on an uninformed first impression.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

.. Just a small correction here, Charu mentioned that the reasoning for my mislynch last game "we don't like your posts, so you're scum" is similar to the reasoning I'm apparently using on you now. Except, he notes, for the absence of silly logic.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Wait, where's the post I made last night addressing inDheart's post "point by point"? Its not showing up on my phone, do you guys see it or did I forget to hit "send" on computer?

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

You keep saying that I picked an argument loser to push in Freez, but isn't that contradicting your other stance that their argument was totally neutral before I jumped in?

Again, if the argument is neutral, how did I pick an argument loser to push? Also, I actually did say at the time why I unvoted, so I can't see how you're accusing me of trying to minimize the push.


I didn't need to respond to the "substance" of his post, which was basically "no, you're reading me wrong, stop it." His reaction was good, his tone was good, so I got off. I even said it at the time. Also, when he accused me of "lying" (of altering his posts to suit my agenda IIRC) I DID respond, saying that that couldn't havr been the case because all I did was quote his posts, in order.
Your reasoning doesn't hold up no matter which way I look at it, tbh. Also, I'm glad you see breadcrumbs, because wolves don't leave breadcrumbs, they leave a trail of blood. They don't eat bread, they eat villagers.

Maaan, it's so much easier to see the holes in your attack now that I'm all rested and relaxed. What's up, inDheart?

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

I'll likely be around until about 4pm server time tomorrow, and I'll do my best to check my phone if the patrons of my fine establishment give me enough of a pause to do so. If anyone's got any issues with me they'd like to bring up, kindly do so before then to allow me to respond and address your concerns.
Alright, let's gooo! Reads, everyone.

To start, I'd say the list I shared earlier is still fairly up to date, and you can find it here: http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...&postcount=440

What's changed is that I'm liking DaBackpack a lot less now. Ironically, the cause of the shift in my read of him was inDheart calling me out on basing a read on nothing but a mindmeld. I re-read his posts, and while I still agree with the majority of judgments he shared (freez, Gradi, precarious at the time), I realized he hasn't actually done, either, other than make those judgments and push semi-lazily on Precarious. He also said he wasn't putting effort in, but that he'd provide a reads list in his next post, then proceeded to post about other stuff until now. Even now, he came into thread tonight to remind us that he's got some "hot fresh reads" for us in the morning. I don't like this, and it seems as though the laziness in his posts may be attributed to a wolf DBP posting a bit and half-heartedly a player, in an attempt to differ from his wolf-meta. This is WIFOM, though, so I'm wary of placing too much faith in it. Still, he's on the table for me until those reads are up like he promised.
I'm liking botchi more after coming in and posting, but that's just off memory right now because nothing seemed suspicious to me there. Not much actual contribution still, but he's trolling in a genuine manner, and that seems like normal botchi to me.
Roundbox I'm liking less, because he's had plenty of opportunity to come in and post, and he's posted at various times that showed he was at least semi-up-to-date, but he still hasn't bothered to do any hunting at all. That's either extremely lazy, or.. well, probably just lazy, but I like him less for it. The couple of contributions that stuck out were randomly declaring people town, and then at some point reminding us that the SK is out there. I refuse to read into his SK-reference, because it's just so much WIFOM, but yes he needs to get off his ass because he's on the table for sheer willful inactivity at this point.
I'm liking Freezin even less now that some time has passed and he's posted some more. I can't help but see a dissonance in his posts with stated intentions, tone, and actions throughout this entire phase.
mellon and precarious are both still undecided, but their exchange was so mindnumbingly repetitive that I couldn't help but think them both town for it, because I think wolves would start reaching for dirt to sling after the third post of the same argument.
I also can't wait for Zenith to get in here and start posting, because that slot needs to start generating some content.

If EoD were in 30 minutes, the players on the table for me would be inDheart, Freezin, DBP, and roundbox, but not necessarily in that order. Botchi and XelNya should both be on there in terms of actual contribution alone, but I'm hesitant to lynch either of them D0 just for trolling, because that's consistent with their respective personas.

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

This is stupid and incorrect, my updated reada list befoe I left for work had you as on the table, and botchi off.
You're lying about my reads when I'm gone and couldnt degend myself. Asshole moces like this got me mislynched last game

may have missed a few posts, don't think I missed many

[AragakiAyase]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

I did address this. Both the part about starting a wagon that didnt gain traction (people were disagreeing with me before I even voted) and the part about her content. I wasn't trying to start a wagon, the vote wasn't for anyone other than her because she explicitly said it was the only way to pressure her. I literally just wanted her to post more. I tried to spell that out as much as possible for everyone else with the a) b) c) post because I know you guys like to take votes out of context. This same fucking thing happened to me in CLIX with my reactiontest push on Freezin that nobody believed. Sunfan even said he thinks I'm lying about my motives in voting Raeko as either alignment!?!?!
Either way, I addressed this last night and I'm sorta surprised you haven't read it already (surprising as either alignment).

that doesn't answer my question

when she posted content, why didn't you interact with her about it?